Problem with Belgian Embassy

[GGS]

First post, so will say hello to all and thank God for this forum

I have a problem with the Belgian Visa Section. I am a UK citizen and wife is non EU national.

I have submitted application for a Schengen visa, along with wifes passport, photo copy of mine, photocopy of marriage certificate along with the original. All questions on the visa application form containing an asterix were not answered.

We went to the visa application centre in London, and they told us we had to answer the asterixed questions, which began to irritate me as I knew they did not have to be answered, but did so to avoid any argueing.
Ok, all done. Today I recieved a phone call stating I needed to provide evidence of travel booking and accomodation. Now, I did say to them, what is the point of doing this? if visa is not given, I would lose money, but they insisted on this information. Also, they state they will not supply a visa if the stay is not in Belgium. I thought travel restrictions on eu citizens and their non EU spouse were illegal, is this true?

But have written to the EU ombudsman citing conditions of travel and breach of freedom to travel in the EU without hinderance caused by the Belgian embassys conditions to be met for my wife to obtain her visa.
Having booked the ferry etc... if my wifes visa is not returned in time causing financial loss, would I have a legal leg to stand on in a course of action against them as a result of not appearing to adhere to the rights of spouses of EU citizens?.

Thanks - confused and somewhat annoyed

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Will you be traveling with your wife? Is this for a short stay visa (under 3 months)?

If so, I would immediately contact Solvit (http://ec.europa.eu/solvit).

They are required to issue the visa if you will be going to Belgium. And if they mess around, you are in a decent position to request compensation. I would suggest you read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

I know somebody who has had a similar situation with the Irish embassy. They demanded all sorts of stuff, including a visa fee. They have now said they will issue the visa and none of the material (bank statements, letter from employer, flight tickets, hotel bookings) has been supplied. The only downside of fighting is that sometimes it takes a long time.

[GGS]

Will you be traveling with your wife? Is this for a short stay visa (under 3 months)?

If so, I would immediately contact Solvit (http://ec.europa.eu/solvit).

They are required to issue the visa if you will be going to Belgium. And if they mess around, you are in a decent position to request compensation. I would suggest you read through http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/04 ... u-citizen/

I know somebody who has had a similar situation with the Irish embassy. They demanded all sorts of stuff, including a visa fee. They have now said they will issue the visa and none of the material (bank statements, letter from employer, flight tickets, hotel bookings) has been supplied. The only downside of fighting is that sometimes it takes a long time.

Thankyou for your post. Very much appreciated . Yes, I will be travelling with my Wife. And also, we were going to go to Belgium for one day, then onto France and back to Belgium. Going by car by the way.. Belgium being the first port of call.

Again, thankyou for your valued information.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Did they indicate, in any way, why they wanted the extra information?

[GGS]

Did they indicate, in any way, why they wanted the extra information?

None whatsoever, just that they wanted more information. Ferry booking and accomodation booking. In a way, they are forcing a stay in Belgium only, if I read between the lines.
We intended to arrive in Brussels and search for a hotel. Cannot really book any old place without checking it over, which is what they are trying to get me to do.

[GGS]

Finally lost patience with them. Have been chasing them up via e-mails and phone calls, and not a single response from either so sent this e-mail to let them know I am not happy with incorrect procedure in dealing with my Wifes application:

Dear SIrs,

I have sent e-mails and also telephoned regarding the above reference. No response from either. I need to know what is happening with my Wifes passport, as it has been promised to be delivered to my home address by this Friday 11/5/2007. Please can you contact me as to the status of my wifes Passport/Visa, as according to the Belgian Embassy Visa Section, all applications are dealt with within 48 hours. Considerably more than 48 hours has passed. Yesterday, I received a phone call regarding requirement of further information regarding booking of travel and accomodation. This information was provided, though was not legally required, and the booking for travel is this Saturday as already stated over the phone yesterday. I am concerned that what is a straightforward application, may have been needlessly held up. According to the tracking application link on your website, my Wifes application is still at the Belgian Embassy.
Having read thoroughly the Directive 2004/38/EC, and of legal advice the following information which was asked for:
Airline tickets
Confirmed hotel bookings
was not required as I am a EU citizen and my Wife is Spouse of EU Citizen.

I am not happy with the incorrect manner in which my Wifes Visa application is being dealt with, and would appreciate that my wifes passport along with her visa is returned as promised by tomorrow 11/5/07.


Still no response despite the urgency. Spoke with a solicitor also today and they told me the embassy is right to ask for this, which seems to appear as very poor advice. Have report all this to SOLVIT anyhow as recommended.

[Fairtrade]

Shame on the Belgium Embassy for asking all these questions.



You are a EU citizen and should be treated like one, if you are travelling with your wife they shouldn't ask her any further info because you are a European citizen!!

What right does a British citizen have, well according to the Belgium Embasy Not alot!!!

Shame on you Belgium Embassy in London!!!!!!!

[GGS]

Shame on the Belgium Embassy for asking all these questions.



You are a EU citizen and should be treated like one, if you are travelling with your wife they shouldn't ask her any further info because you are a European citizen!!

What right does a British citizen have, well according to the Belgium Embasy Not alot!!!

Shame on you Belgium Embassy in London!!!!!!!

Exactly. Clearest breach of Law if ever there was one. And likely to cause financial loss if my wife does not recieve her passport back tomorrow.

Thanks for the moral support

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

You may find this communication about the Irish embassy requirements interesting... http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/ ... 991_EN.doc
or http://tinyurl.com/ypwer5 in a more clickable form.

I would suggest you consider the different options for legal redress.

One option would be to go to small claims court in the UK. They might claim sovereign immunity, but they would have to show up to do it. And you could make a case that as this is European wide law, you should be able to seek redress in UK court. It would also not prevent you from taking other legal action.

I would strongly encourage you to keep track of all your expenses in relation to this, and claim them all back.

Finally, I would suggest you demand a refund for your charges to call the expensive number to make the appointment. Remember that legally the visa should be issued at no cost and on the basis of an accelerated process, but there is no other way to way to make an appointment except by calling the expensive line. Worse for the embassy (and better for you legally), Belgian citizen can do it without calling the line and without an appointment.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I am very interested in how this will pan out.

[GGS]

Recieved an e-mail from them this morning:

Dear Sir,

We have receipted your missing documents and sent to the embassy yesterday. You have to wait 2 working days from yesterday. So, maybe you will receive your wife s passport/visa tomorrow.

I hope to you.

Regards,

Victorien Dupouy

BELGIUM VISA APPLICATION CENTRE

The application was delivered over a week ago. So they held onto the application until yesterday, before submitting it to the Embassy. Maybe my Wife will recieve her passport tomorrow. We are due to leave tomorrow. This whole fiasco has left a bitter taste in my mouth and caused considerable annoyance.

[GGS]

You may find this communication about the Irish embassy requirements interesting... http://www.europarl.europa.eu/registre/ ... 991_EN.doc
or http://tinyurl.com/ypwer5 in a more clickable form.

I would suggest you consider the different options for legal redress.

One option would be to go to small claims court in the UK. They might claim sovereign immunity, but they would have to show up to do it. And you could make a case that as this is European wide law, you should be able to seek redress in UK court. It would also not prevent you from taking other legal action.

I would strongly encourage you to keep track of all your expenses in relation to this, and claim them all back.

Finally, I would suggest you demand a refund for your charges to call the expensive number to make the appointment. Remember that legally the visa should be issued at no cost and on the basis of an accelerated process, but there is no other way to way to make an appointment except by calling the expensive line. Worse for the embassy (and better for you legally), Belgian citizen can do it without calling the line and without an appointment.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, but I am very interested in how this will pan out.

I understand where you are coming from. I too find it interesting that Belgian citizens do not need appointments etc... so as a Belgian citizen is an EU citizen, why does this not apply to UK citizens also?. It does appear to discriminate against UK citizens. The information you have provided to help is first class. Kudos to you Sir

[Fairtrade]

I really hope you get your wife's passport/visa back before you go!

I also agree the other European Union members seem to have two different rules when it comes to their citizens and british citizens, but both are full european union members!

No further info should have been asked when you applied for the visa(based on the fact that you are a European citizen and they should also have a same day walk in service for British citizens not just Belgium, Dutch or French citizens. We are all in the European Union and we all pay our tax that goes to the European Union, Britain of course pays the most tax into the European Union and what do you as a British citizen get back from the European Union?? Not much!!!

[Docterror]

Britain of course pays the most tax into the European Union

Interesting! I wasn't aware of that. Is there any way I can get hold of the source of the information?

[Fairtrade]

The UK will receive less EU funding per head than any other member state. Britain will receive only €770 per person in EU spending. This is half as much as France (€1480) and a quarter as much as Ireland (€3090). Absurdly, the richest country in the EU – Luxembourg – will get more than €22,000 per person because it benefits from having EU agencies based there

The UK’s payments to the EU are to rise 47%. Under the six-year budget the UK paid €39 billion more into the EU than it received back. (Jack Straw briefing, 5 December) Under the new budget the UK will pay €103.5 billion into the EU and receives back €46bn. This means UK will pay in €57.5 billion more than it gets out. That's a 47% increase in our net contribution.


I meant for what the Uk spends into the EU and what it gets back. It's paying far more tax than other European countries considering what it gets back.

Read more about it

http://www.openeurope.org.uk/media-cent ... eleaseid=9

"the first point to make is that these 'grants' are our own money to begin with! In fact, Britain pays much more to the EU budget than we get back. Between 1973, when we joined the EU, and 2003, Britain made net payments to the EU of £51.0 billion. In 2005 alone Britain handed over £15.0 billion, and received back only £8.9 billion - a net deficit of £6.1 billion. [Office of National Statistics, October 2006.] Britain's annual payments to the EU will increase to even higher levels now that the UK's rebate, originally negotiated by Margaret Thatcher, has been lost."



http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/#350

[GGS]

Just checked the visa status of my wife on their website, and it shows the passport has been posted back. Whether it has a visa in it is open for debate at the moment. Still, visa or no visa, I intend to proceed with taking action against them. My, and my Wifes, rights were breached. And also, I would advise anyone to avoid the Belgians. Let them wonder why, if it happens, that they see a sudden drop in applications and money.

[Humb]

I have the identical problem - non eu national wife travelling to Belgium me eu national through Belgium Embassy site. We applied in the same way and our application was delayed because they requested us to buy tickets.

Out situation was slightly different - we requested a multientry visa as we were intending to travel back to the UK and into Italy in the following week. This trip fell under the stated rubric that Belgium was the point of entry and the majority of the period in Schengen area was in Belgium.

As the delay caused by the purchase of the tickets meant that we had to travel to the eurostar immediately we were directed to pick up the passport direct rather than from the processing office. We received the passport back and we got 3 days Single Entry to cover the Belgium trip.

I pointed out the directive, that i had no evidence of an accelerated procedure for me a European National, that the processing office requested a processing fee of 22 pounds - which as a EU national I understood that I didn;t have to pay, that the purchase of the ticket when the decision about the visa hung in the balance put me at risk (all other embassy's advocate the opposite - don't buy a ticket before you get the visa) and finally that it meant we would not have time to get another visa for my wife to come to italy.

All of which the official dismissed by saying, a multientry visa is never issued first time around because this was the rule. second my case was not a consideration that fell under the EU directive and finally the case was subject to a set of Schengen visa rules that were in place to 'stop abuses of the system'. I wanted to argue the toss and lose the money for the belgian trip but my wife persuaded me that we should take the belgium trip and try again for a second visa.

One further point is that of all the remaining Schegen-area embassies in London, only the Austrian and Finnish seems to be approaching the spirit of the directive. They both have a reduced set of documents that EU National-Non EU spouse need to submit and an accelerated procedure (AU - afternoons are set aside for this category FI - same day turnaround). All of the others have no accelerated procedure. The lead times for dealing with any application are around six weeks. For those of us in the category who want to travel in Schegen, a detour by Belgium is the only way.

When I asked the Belgian official whether there was an appeal process, he said loftily that i perhaps take it up with the Belgian Parliament, or perhaps the King. Thanks for the advice though - the small claims court may be the best recourse.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Embassy: 17 Grosvenor Crescent
London SW1X 7EE

Visa application Centre
5 Lower Belgrave Street, Victoria
London SW1W ONR
Email: infolondon@vfs-be-uk.com
Website: www.vfs-be-uk.com

Important question for people who have applied at the Visa application Centre: Did you talk with somebody who is an employee of the Belgian Embassy, or was it only employees of VF Services (UK) Limited of VFS Global Services Pvt. Ltd.?

More specifically, was it a VFS employee who said you are required to submit the travel bookings? Or fill out all of the visa form?

Note that VF Services (UK) Limited of VFS Global Services Pvt. Ltd. is a UK company and so can easily be sued in small claims court. I wonder also about the possibility that the Directive applies directly to them in their capacity as outsourced processing centre for the Belgian embassy.

http://www.vfs-be-uk.com/visafees.aspx

There is a service charge of £22 (inclusive of VAT) applicable per application over and above the visa fees for all applicants.

[Humb]

In my case we submitted the form to the VF company. They accepted that we were not buying tickets until we knew if we had the visa but they underlined the fact that they were only taking receipt of the documents.

A few days later the embassy rang my wife and said bring the tickets. We submitted the tickets through VFS. (we had already sent a hotel booking)

By chance the return of the passport was delayed and they sent us to the Belgian embassy to pick it up. It was only for 3 days - this corresponded to the duration of our stay as indicated by the tickets.

We are trying again through the Belgian embassy. We want a visa for entry to Italy and there is no way to get this through the italian embassy. We have cooked up some more tickets. The message that we have taken away from the first experience was that the Belgians thought that the tickets were what was going to prevent 'abuses to the system'.

VFS for their part emphasize that the visa is free, they are charging their 22 quid 'for the service'.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

In my case we submitted the form to the VF company. They accepted that we were not buying tickets until we knew if we had the visa but they underlined the fact that they were only taking receipt of the documents.

A few days later the embassy rang my wife and said bring the tickets. We submitted the tickets through VFS. (we had already sent a hotel booking)

...

VFS for their part emphasize that the visa is free, they are charging their 22 quid 'for the service'.

Did you get a sense of what the service was they were providing?
Did they interview you, and if so was it an embassy employee who was doing it?
Or was it only just checking that all the boxes on the application form were filled?
Did they require you to fill ALL the questions, even the ones which have the (*) and are marked as not required for family of an EU citizen?

And let me get this right: you had given them a hotel booking already, but then they came back to you to demand a travel reservation as well?

[Smit]

In my opinion this £22 fee can and ought to be challenged as an indirect visa fee on EEA family members as the Belgian Embassy doesn't give an option for people not to use their visa agent.

[Humb]

The VFS company had its own separate check list and they just collected the documents. On the first occasion when I said that i didn't have the ticket, they just noted that. When the embassy called to ask to see the ticket VFS received it.

In my case there were some boxes that we didn't fill in like place of work as my wife is a homemaker so they didn't make the same insistence as with the other guy.

And in answer to Directive/2004/38/EC's question - yes they wanted to see the travel reservation. I am not sure what would have happened if we had not gone ahead without it but we obliged.

We are going through the process again to get this Schegen Visa for Italy. If it doesn't come off through the Belgian embassy, based on some advise i had from my italian lawyer friend, we are going to chance an entry to pisa on a flr, a marriage certifcate and two passports.

(I enquired about ths possibility on getting into italy without the schengen on this site but it seems that the italians are more cautious - they said don't try it

http://www.tuttostranieri.it/forum/topi ... IC_ID=6073)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Your best bet may be to write to the Belgian Embassy, a polite but firm letter, requesting a refund of the £22. Say that the visa must be issued free of charge, and while you understand that they have outsourced their customer facing services, the visa must still be issued free of charge.

When they ignore you or turn you down or tell you to contact VFS, then contact Solvit about it.

It looks like VFS does work for the UK in India
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39627

[GGS]

Embassy: 17 Grosvenor Crescent
London SW1X 7EE

Visa application Centre
5 Lower Belgrave Street, Victoria
London SW1W ONR
Email: infolondon@vfs-be-uk.com
Website: www.vfs-be-uk.com

Important question for people who have applied at the Visa application Centre: Did you talk with somebody who is an employee of the Belgian Embassy, or was it only employees of VF Services (UK) Limited of VFS Global Services Pvt. Ltd.?

More specifically, was it a VFS employee who said you are required to submit the travel bookings? Or fill out all of the visa form?

Note that VF Services (UK) Limited of VFS Global Services Pvt. Ltd. is a UK company and so can easily be sued in small claims court. I wonder also about the possibility that the Directive applies directly to them in their capacity as outsourced processing centre for the Belgian embassy.

http://www.vfs-be-uk.com/visafees.aspx

There is a service charge of £22 (inclusive of VAT) applicable per application over and above the visa fees for all applicants.

True, what is concerning though is the Belgian Embassy passing it off as though it officially to do with them. Visa arrived in time for us to get to Belgium. Now the complaints and legal issues are being addressed now I we have returned home. Paris was lovely!

[mirnat]

I've read this post with interest as my husband, an Albanian national applied recently through the new Embassy of Belgium Visa application centre. I'm a British citizen so we thought it would be relatively straightforward requiring few documents. However, I did book our flights and hotel coz I could see that they wouldn't give the visa without this and also reluctantly paid the £22 fee, again because we had tickets booked we had to get the visa. He did get the Schengen visa valid for 3 weeks (our trip was only 4 days) but I still think all the information they asked of us was not called for!!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I've read this post with interest as my husband, an Albanian national applied recently through the new Embassy of Belgium Visa application centre. I'm a British citizen so we thought it would be relatively straightforward requiring few documents. However, I did book our flights and hotel coz I could see that they wouldn't give the visa without this and also reluctantly paid the £22 fee, again because we had tickets booked we had to get the visa. He did get the Schengen visa valid for 3 weeks (our trip was only 4 days) but I still think all the information they asked of us was not called for!!

I would urge you to get the EU's SOLVIT involved. If one person complains, then they will help the person. If multiple people complain about the same situation, they will escalate it (and help the person complaining).
http://europa.eu.int/solvit/
Ask for your £22 back!