Tier 1 ext. as Limited company director and ILR as salaried

[fn286]

Dear Seniors and Gurus,

Please help in trying to find asnwers and clear my doubts.

My extension was granted as limited company sole director in 2012 but I no longer manage a limited company. I closed my company last year. I claimed earning as dividends only between 2011 ad 2012. I submitted self assessment and corporation tax to HMRC. I will apply for ILR as full time salaried employee of large insurance company this month.

I know limited company director is considered as employed work by HMRC and many people get confused if its self employed. During ILR application at PEO, Please tell me if Home office will be concerned about my corporation tax being so small, and all my previous earning as dividends only?

As bring limited company director is employed work (even you pay class1 NI if higher salary is drawn), I don't see any reason why Home office would consider net profit/net income as my only earnings and they themselves granted TIer (G) extension on the basis of dividends. I know for self -employed work we can only claims point against net income. Do you think my ILR will be rejected on this basis that my corporation tax is small as compare to earnings claimed during extension?

I have paid corporation tax even though if its small as compare to the dividend earnings I claimed back in 2012. Accountants show expenses to reduce tax.

I personally think they should only consider last 12 months. My employment histor letter from HMRC clearly shows ecnomic activity (NI paid for past 4 years, they do not updated record for current tax year).

Please if anyone have experience or granted ILR in a similar situation, please do reply soon.

Thanks.

[kpk1234]

I think you should be OK if you are showing last 12 months salary. That is what it states in the guidance if you are applying under Tier 1 (General) ( correct me if I am wrong?). I am not sure if you have to prove that you are economically active for the past 4 or 5 years.

[fn286]

Dear kpk1234,

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I believe I should meet all the requirments however some people were asked about HMRC tax related questions linked with their extension. But I do believe self employed cases were strictly checked for deception.

I wanted to know if limited company directors had any challenges in the past during their ILR PEO applications .i.e. related to net profits, corporation tax, Self assessment, increased expenses to reduce tax..

thanks.

[kpk1234]

May be you can obtain a letter from HMRC stating you are up to date with tax payments. I am sure UKBA can check this info.

[ilrtier1genral]

Dear fn286,

I am a newbie here but my situation is exactly the same as yours I've been going through the Immigration Directorate Instructions or case worker instructions which was updated in october 2013 clearly says they may or will assess on the balance of probabilities and may take into account the following factors:

(i) the evidence the applicant has submitted;

(ii) whether the money appears to have been earned through genuine
employment, rather than being borrowed, gifted, or otherwise shown in
the applicant’s financial transactions or records without being earned;

(iii) whether the business from which the earnings are claimed can be
shown to exist and be lawfully and genuinely trading;

(iv) verification of previous earnings claims with declarations made in
respect of the applicant to other Government Departments, including
declarations made in respect of earnings claimed by the applicant in
previous applications;

Can some senior members or the people who went through from similar issue advise us?

Thanks

[pinkpop]

Does your employment history letter shows another tax return for e.g coopration tax, vat return, etc... or it only shows the ni and paye paid for past 4 years?

[fn286]

Does your employment history letter shows another tax return for e.g coopration tax, vat return, etc... or it only shows the ni and paye paid for past 4 years?

Dear pinkpop,

employment history only shows previous employments that were reported on PAYE i.e. tax or national insurance was reported or paid. Where as in case of Limited company, some time people chose to keep salary below threshold to save tax and pay higher income via dividends. You don't have to register on PAYE with HMRC if you're drawing a salary that is below threshold. It's good to register but not necessary. So, my limited company work doesn't appear on personal employment history with HMRC as I never paid any income tax or NI. But corporation tax record is there.

But now I am claiming point from my employment with other UK company i.e. 12 salaries, tax record etc. My concerned is will I in trouble if caseworker asked for any record from the year of Tier 1 extension? ? They shouldn't ask this question as I'm no longer claiming points as self employed or as lmited company director. My case very straight forwrad this time.

[pinkpop]

Thanks for your information. So the employment history will records every returns( personal and ltd director)you made for past years am i right?

I think that you should be fine as you will provide the earnings by payslips and not divdents as a full time employee. The case worker will do the work base on what documents you provided, if it is very clearly shows you met all requirements and i don't see why they need to check your preiously earnings. CW may check only when they feel something not right.
BTW when your peo will be?

Wish you all the Best of luck

[fn286]

Thanks for your information. So the employment history will records every returns( personal and ltd director)you made for past years am i right?

I think that you should be fine as you will provide the earnings by payslips and not divdents as a full time employee. The case worker will do the work base on what documents you provided, if it is very clearly shows you met all requirements and i don't see why they need to check your preiously earnings. CW may check only when they feel something not right.
BTW when your peo will be?

Wish you all the Best of luck

My employment history doesn't show my limited company earnings or employment because I was not registered as PAYE. You have to register for PAYE for your limited company employment to appear on HMRC record. And you don't have to register if you are drawing small salary. Its good to have PAYE but not a must. My other employments appears on the employment history.

My opinion is similar to you, why would CW dig the grave of my previous earnings. It was 2 years ago and I'm no longer a limited company director or self employed. Clean case and a small pile of documents. My advise to self employed people...go with the employment route unless you're too pretty and wear a deep neck shirt in front of CW who is a male

[AUHS]

Let me make it clear guys. I am reading your posts and just want to clear some doubts.

Ukba or Case worker will surely dig out the grave of your previous earnings or application details if they smell some thing . They will contact with HMRC and confirm the earnings claimed in your previous application.

If for what so ever so called ... Accountant mistake ... Or expenses was increased ... Or what ever.If your earnings claim is not the same with HMRC and Ukba then you are in big problem.

I have seen 2 cases of ILR refusal (Self Employed and company Directer ) their application have been refused under paragraph 321/Deception. Both of the guys even amend their tax returns and correct their records with HMRC.

1 guy sent the am mended tax reurn to Ukba along with a pre action protocol (pre JR ) letter to ukba and had asked then to review the decision ... But you know what ...
Ukba refused again and maintained the refusal by saying they believe this is deception and am mending the tax return is not credible by them.

I have seen the refusal letters my self ...

Other guy is in appeal process ...look what happen ....
I am not saying that Ukba is checking every body ... They do it if they doubt any thing and if it's you then you are screwd up man .....

I know a lot if people's are in trouble whom digits are different between HMRC and Ukba .....

[fn286]

Let me make it clear guys. I am reading your posts and just want to clear some doubts.

Ukba or Case worker will surely dig out the grave of your previous earnings or application details if they smell some thing . They will contact with HMRC and confirm the earnings claimed in your previous application.

If for what so ever so called ... Accountant mistake ... Or expenses was increased ... Or what ever.If your earnings claim is not the same with HMRC and Ukba then you are in big problem.

I have seen 2 cases of ILR refusal (Self Employed and company Directer ) their application have been refused under paragraph 321/Deception. Both of the guys even amend their tax returns and correct their records with HMRC.

1 guy sent the am mended tax reurn to Ukba along with a pre action protocol (pre JR ) letter to ukba and had asked then to review the decision ... But you know what ...
Ukba refused again and maintained the refusal by saying they believe this is deception and am mending the tax return is not credible by them.

I have seen the refusal letters my self ...

Other guy is in appeal process ...look what happen ....
I am not saying that Ukba is checking every body ... They do it if they doubt any thing and if it's you then you are screwd up man .....

I know a lot if people's are in trouble whom digits are different between HMRC and Ukba .....

Dear AUHS,

Thank you for your kind input. Every case is different, there are many refusal cases even on this forum that I have been researching for months now. The cases you mentioned sounded different than mine. I'm no longer self employed or a limited company director. Company is closed and records are in HMRC archives. There is no way to get the confirmation same day, HO will have to fax or write to them and then HMRC will retrieve info for them. This is one point.

Second point...I'm not currently applying as limited company director...may be those 2 persons applied as self employed or company director...

I agree that everything should be clear with HMRC... but its corporation tax... not personal tax... my self assessment is fine...

I'm still looking for facts...

[AUHS]

Answers to your point 1 :

You are right that they have to request information from HMRC as can't be done on same day.

One of the case I mentioned applied in PEO and they held his case by saying that they need to do further queries .Remember same day decision is NOT gurenteed in PEO's.

Point number 2:

Ukba changes the immigration rules on 1/10/2013 to tackle the abuse.

If you read all the section in their then you can see all

1: checks on declarations ( about your earnings made to other Gov departments) in your previous application.

It's not impossible .....

[mrehanashraf]

I agree that everything should be clear with HMRC... but its corporation tax... not personal tax... my self assessment is fine...

I'm still looking for facts...

@fn286

Your Self assessment contains Salary and dividends that your company declared and paid to you. It does not mention Corporation tax.
I checked mine Self Assessment Form and confirmed.

Now the point to ask is Employment History from HMRC (i think SATR) is same as Self Assessment Form?

[fn286]

Answers to your point 1 :

You are right that they have to request information from HMRC as can't be done on same day.

One of the case I mentioned applied in PEO and they held his case by saying that they need to do further queries .Remember same day decision is NOT gurenteed in PEO's.

Point number 2:

Ukba changes the immigration rules on 1/10/2013 to tackle the abuse.

If you read all the section in their then you can see all

1: checks on declarations ( about your earnings made to other Gov departments) in your previous application.

It's not impossible .....

Dear AUHS

I have read your full immigration rules myself, recent ones and I completely agree with what you said.

But still I guess I'm not making myself clear. Cases you mentioned are most likely, and I'm actually certain, are the cases where earnings were claimed as self employment or limited company director. This is how they must be claiming points on their ILR applications. Even I will put the decision on hold in that case. Ofcourse you will need to provide everything that is asked because that is your current work and you should have all documents.

My case/question is different, its past tense, back log.. I won't be claiming points or even mentioning anywhere on the applicaion that I was limited company director once in my life. But ofcourse CW can always check details from my past experience. My concern was, will I be challenged on documents/tax records from the past? Anybody can lose it, you don't have to keep it. Company is closed, corporation tax paid, self assessment submitted for 2011-2012.

Please can you check with these guys, if at all possible, what basis they claimed their earning on ILR application? I'm absolutely sure they claimed as self employed and limited co director. If not, then they are very unlucky to be caught.

My self assessment (SATR) was submitted for my dividend income and I have got the copy from HMRC. If CW asked any question for that year, I will show him the copy of SATR as proof of my earnings. And if CW asked for corporation tax details, which I don't think he will as its no where on my ILR application, I will let him know I closed my company after accepting employment with my current company. And if I find him really pissed, I will then show him confirmation of corporation tax paid. And if he will then ask how this tax was worked out..details etc... then I will say to him I dont have it with me sue me sucker!! Only kidding, I know CW will not get their ever... I have a strog case and a really good job... when CW will look at my profile...he won't bother asking any questions...

I will reply to mrehanashraf too.

[pinkpop]

Answers to your point 1 :

You are right that they have to request information from HMRC as can't be done on same day.

One of the case I mentioned applied in PEO and they held his case by saying that they need to do further queries .Remember same day decision is NOT gurenteed in PEO's.

Point number 2:

Ukba changes the immigration rules on 1/10/2013 to tackle the abuse.

If you read all the section in their then you can see all

1: checks on declarations ( about your earnings made to other Gov departments) in your previous application.

It's not impossible .....

Dear AUHS

I have read your full immigration rules myself, recent ones and I completely agree with what you said.

But still I guess I'm not making myself clear. Cases you mentioned are most likely, and I'm actually certain, are the cases where earnings were claimed as self employment or limited company director. This is how they must be claiming points on their ILR applications. Even I will put the decision on hold in that case. Ofcourse you will need to provide everything that is asked because that is your current work and you should have all documents.

My case/question is different, its past tense, back log.. I won't be claiming points or even mentioning anywhere on the applicaion that I was limited company director once in my life. But ofcourse CW can always check details from my past experience. My concern was, will I be challenged on documents/tax records from the past? Anybody can lose it, you don't have to keep it. Company is closed, corporation tax paid, self assessment submitted for 2011-2012.

Please can you check with these guys, if at all possible, what basis they claimed their earning on ILR application? I'm absolutely sure they claimed as self employed and limited co director. If not, then they are very unlucky to be caught.

My self assessment (SATR) was submitted for my dividend income and I have got the copy from HMRC. If CW asked any question for that year, I will show him the copy of SATR as proof of my earnings. And if CW asked for corporation tax details, which I don't think he will as its no where on my ILR application, I will let him know I closed my company after accepting employment with my current company. And if I find him really pissed, I will then show him confirmation of corporation tax paid. And if he will then ask how this tax was worked out..details etc... then I will say to him I dont have it with me sue me sucker!! Only kidding, I know CW will not get their ever... I have a strog case and a really good job... when CW will look at my profile...he won't bother asking any questions...

I will reply to mrehanashraf too.

I agree with you as you mentioned before you claim salary only this time for ilr. Based on your profile that clearly shows you meet every single requirement so i doubt the cas worker will track any preiousely earning you claimed. The case worker will pay more attention for those people claim their earning as self employed or ltd directors. They are most unlikely checking employee income.

I suggest you that if you have any p60 for last year then submit it with your current payslips i think it will make your case even stronger.

[fn286]

I agree that everything should be clear with HMRC... but its corporation tax... not personal tax... my self assessment is fine...

I'm still looking for facts...

@fn286

Your Self assessment contains Salary and dividends that your company declared and paid to you. It does not mention Corporation tax.
I checked mine Self Assessment Form and confirmed.

Now the point to ask is Employment History from HMRC (i think SATR) is same as Self Assessment Form?

Dear mrehanashraf,

Employment history and SATR are 2 different things completely...the only common things between them is both are issued by HMRC. Corporation tax is completely different...even HMRC dept who deals with corp tax is different. Remember...you claim points on personal income not company income. You don't need to show corporation tax return details record to CW, but some people are so scared they show it to them... you can show that you have paid the corporation tax and that is the only way to prove your work was genuine. Dont give them corporation tax return details...otherwise they will start asking this from everyone...

If youre self employed or limited company director ...and still claiming points on this then be careful my friend... they can ask anything... from past and present even future.. if on youre SATR earnings are higher or equal than what you claimed during your extension than youre safe...congrats youre ILR is granted mate! BUT BUT BUT if youre SATR (not corporate tax return) earnings are less then what you claimed on extension, please talk to your accountant and resubmit your SATR for that year. My SATR has much higher earnings than what I claimed during my extension.

Self assessment is not for the company..its your personal earnings..yes you can give your salary and dividend earnings on your self assessment.

employment history ofcourse show PAYE and NI details from your past employments. By the way there are two type of employment histories..one is requested from HMRC's Record Retrieval Services (RRS). Now this employment history will not show names of your employer, salary or NI, it only shows NI paid or not...and HMRC websites states this is the approved format for residency visa and citizenship purposes. So you can request this letter.

Now other employment history, that HMRC will try not to issue at all when you will call them, is the one that show employer name, salary NI etc. You will have to dodge the customer service officer to get this letter. Now if youre limited company director, and registered as PAYE and reporting salary to HMRC only then this will appear on employment history. This is a must these days for all those who are claiming points as limited company director. If you pay little salary and you are the only employee (director) then you don't have to register for PAYE as you don't pay tax or NI. But still if you register your company name will appear on HMRC record and that will satisfy CW that your work is genuine. Very simple. Register PAYE, call HMRC and ask for employment history letter...

There is another tricky part, only one department with HMRC holds your most recent record and HO will definitely check info with these guys, rest depts will have it when tax year ends. Thats the one that deals with PAYE coding notice. I would suggest speaking to someone who deals with 'PAYE Coding notices' ..say this on their stupid IVR... tell them you need to see your employer details...they will post you... if CW ask...throw this HMRC letter on his face and say this to him 'grant me ILR suckersss...' lol

BUT BUT.... if you're situation is difficult if you know what I mean... then be careful...

I'm on a mission to help all non EU migrants who work so hard to come to UK .... hahah

[fn286]

Dear AUHS,

I don't have P60's from past years but I have the alternate that I also quoted on my reply to mrehanashraf. That's employment history letter from HMRC (RRS one, with no employer names, salary or NI amounts) that is HO approved format. It shows that I paid NI in last 4 years hence I was economically active.

I'm applying before april so my current employer cannot issue P60, but I will take employment history letter (the one with employer details) with me just in case. That might not show my earnings n all from current employer but the company name will surely appear. but what I have noticed is that the other employment history letter (RRS one) really good enough.

I just wanted to be clear and raised question on this forum, thought someone may have exprienced similar situation. but this forum is helpful.

[fn286]

Dear AUHS,

I don't have P60's from past years but I have the alternate that I also quoted on my reply to mrehanashraf. That's employment history letter from HMRC (RRS one, with no employer names, salary or NI amounts) that is HO approved format. It shows that I paid NI in last 4 years hence I was economically active.

I'm applying before april so my current employer cannot issue P60, but I will take employment history letter (the one with employer details) with me just in case. That might not show my earnings n all from current employer but the company name will surely appear. but what I have noticed is that the other employment history letter (RRS one) really good enough.

I just wanted to be clear and raised question on this forum, thought someone may have exprienced similar situation. but this forum is helpful.

Apologies.. this was for pinkpop.

[mrehanashraf]

Hi fn286,

Thanks for your detailed explanation. What can be the situation if Self Assessment figures (Dividends part) does not match (less than )with claimed Dividends but still they are higher than the Qualifying Point?

And second thing, the claimed 12 months period can differ from Self Assessment Period (6 Apr to 5 Apr any given year). And if both are not same then there is a chance that Dividends of 2 Financial Years lies in between claimed 12 months period. What you say?
Thanks
MRA

[fn286]

Hi fn286,

Thanks for your detailed explanation. What can be the situation if Self Assessment figures (Dividends part) does not match (less than )with claimed Dividends but still they are higher than the Qualifying Point?

And second thing, the claimed 12 months period can differ from Self Assessment Period (6 Apr to 5 Apr any given year). And if both are not same then there is a chance that Dividends of 2 Financial Years lies in between claimed 12 months period. What you say?
Thanks
MRA

First quesion.. what category you are claiming your earnings? Are you currently a limited company director or you were at the time of extension years ago?

If your overall earnings declared on SATR are higher than your minimum earnings requirements than not to worry, CW worker won't reject your visa technically but yes you have to come up with confident and solid justification. Remember, CW is not a HMRC employee so he cannot legally challenge you on tax issues. all he is concerned about the points you are claiming and he wants to make sure your earning is genuine. If you are going for ILR as director with PAYE record with HMRC... you will need lot of luck.

Not sure exactly about your second point, but sounds right to me. You can pay out dividends anytime following managment/director's decision. CW doesn't know too much about taxation and dividends..all he knows is HO guidelines... I would avoid a situation where I have to give such explanations. Sometime CW hold the decision and ask for more documents. That is even more stressful and waste of time.

The question I raised was on a different issue where I was director 2 year sago but not anymore. But if you are applying as a director can you have to be careful. They can ask for anything...invoice...bluddy client contacts...who knows what... you will need corporation tax record as well?

[AUHS]

Well I know 1 thing for sure.

It does not matter that some body was self employed or director of limited company.and now they are salaried ....

Ukba can and will randomly(quiet often now a days) check his past application details.case workers are making sure that the applicant WAS eligible for the claimed earning points in the last application and he or she paid the appropriate tax and declared the same earnings to tax department.

Simple ... If the earnings/digits are not same with Ukba and other tax departments ... Then big problem and hard to rectify.

If earnings are same with ukba and tax departments ... Well and good ... No worries even you are paying your taxes in instalments.

[pinkpop]

Well I know 1 thing for sure.

It does not matter that some body was self employed or director of limited company.and now they are salaried ....

Ukba can and will randomly(quiet often now a days) check his past application details.case workers are making sure that the applicant WAS eligible for the claimed earning points in the last application and he or she paid the appropriate tax and declared the same earnings to tax department.

Simple ... If the earnings/digits are not same with Ukba and other tax departments ... Then big problem and hard to rectify.

If earnings are same with ukba and tax departments ... Well and good ... No worries even you are paying your taxes in instalments.

How about a person only takes monthly salary for past 5 years and never taken any divdents at all. What ever Paye tax or NI all paid in time. Has all p60s for past 5 years and all salary were over the requiremnts at initial and extension as well, also never filed applications as ltd director.Now the person sold the company a year ago and the person continued to work for the same company. What do you think about this case?

[fn286]

Well I know 1 thing for sure.

It does not matter that some body was self employed or director of limited company.and now they are salaried ....

Ukba can and will randomly(quiet often now a days) check his past application details.case workers are making sure that the applicant WAS eligible for the claimed earning points in the last application and he or she paid the appropriate tax and declared the same earnings to tax department.

Simple ... If the earnings/digits are not same with Ukba and other tax departments ... Then big problem and hard to rectify.

If earnings are same with ukba and tax departments ... Well and good ... No worries even you are paying your taxes in instalments.

Dear AUHS,

I disagree and I'm not convinced with your reply I'm sorry. You are sure about something but do you have any real life example? The 2 guys you mentioned were different cases.

My question is not even about income tax, it was about corporation tax. I have not seen a single case rejected on the basis of corporation tax. My my company is closed long time ago. I don't have anything with me, why should I keep? I'm not claiming or even talking about my past work.

I have researched all websites of the world but I have not came across one case where someone is rejected for his past application. Many says ILR is mostly rejected for self employed cases, but I have not a case where self employed person is rejected on the basis of last extension. Common sense I would say... imagine CW rejecting my ILR saying Tier 1 was wrongly granted or 2 years old tax records were not presented. They can only ask one question, and I dont even think they will, why you closed your limited company from which you claimed earnings during extension. Logic...how can they ask for tax records or any document from time of yoru extension...how can they reject application on failing to provide that doc and how can they say Tier 1 extension was fake....just logic...

I'm not asking what would or could HO or CW do... I know they can do anything... but I'm only interested in what they are doing and have done. So far I haven't seen a single rejection case. Please share if you know any. I haven't seen anyone rejected giving the reason Tier 1 extension achieved using fake earnings. HO cannot do this because this will be their own insult why they granted visa.

Your A** is kicked only for whats on the ILR application, not for anything from the time of visa extension.

I still anyone who faced similar situation, please share the experience...

[AUHS]

Well it is all up to you...You want to agree or disagree....

The case I mentioned which refused ILR .....he was was refused due to discrepancies in his last Tier 1 Extension application.UKBA did not even look at his documents which he submitted with his ILR application.

I am getting out of this discussion but I will make sure that my past and present is squeaky clean to avoid any problems.

[fn286]

Well it is all up to you...You want to agree or disagree....

The case I mentioned which refused ILR .....he was was refused due to discrepancies in his last Tier 1 Extension application.UKBA did not even look at his documents which he submitted with his ILR application.

I am getting out of this discussion but I will make sure that my past and present is squeaky clean to avoid any problems.

Again...incorrect reference to the case... those guys were applying as self employed/limited company directors... ofcourse they will be in trouble... my case is different...and my concern is regarding corp tax...not income tax...

Its good to be squeaky clean.. tc