visa for my mother

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:25 pm

Hi, I wonder if someone can help me or know sth about this. My mother went to apply for a visa at the british embassy in our county to come and visit me and my family. She has been here 8 times, but they told her this time after she gave all the papers and fingerprints (yes new rules) that they will call her to let her know.Last time she was here she overstayed the visa by 6 months as she looked after my kids for me. When she went to the airport they saw her passport and put there a reference type number. They also gave her the IS151A forms and asked her why she stayed more then her visa. She applied for a new passport and she presented that in the embassy.

I called the embassy yesterday and they said to me they are doing some verifications? Any one got any idea please..... i.e will they check with HO, does the HO has name from the airport etc

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:32 pm

Alba
It sounds like the incident has been flagged.
She shouldn't have overstayed, would have been better to have asked for an extension.
In any case, what reason did your mother give for overstaying.

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:38 pm

SYH wrote:Alba
It sounds like the incident has been flagged.
She shouldn't have overstayed, would have been better to have asked for an extension.
In any case, what reason did your mother give for overstaying.

many thanks for replying..
well i gave birth to my second child and went to work after three months, she said she stayed here because she wasn't very well and helped me with the kids...

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:43 pm

So the reason she gave for overstaying was that she wasnt well enough to travel and to help you with your children??

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:46 pm

SYH wrote:So the reason she gave for overstaying was that she wasnt well enough to travel and to help you with your children??

well mum said she told the io with her broken english she wasn't well... so she asked her did you go to the doctors free.... my mum said... no... my daughter has a very good job she paid for me... but in fact she was travellign back with my two children 5 and 12 months... oh... i don't know... she really helped me with the kids.. i am so worried she will never be allowed to come back now.. do you think they have put her name in the HO

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:50 pm

Excuse me? Now you say, when she was leaving the country, she had your children with you????
Did the IO or some authority not call you about it?

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Fri May 18, 2007 3:54 pm

SYH wrote:Excuse me? Now you say, when she was leaving the country, she had your children with you????
Did the IO or some authority not call you about it?

No... no one called me....When she went back, she took my children with her for holiday (mum and dad and the kids) as me and my husband went to America. We asked the airport whether she needed a letter from me to confirm authorisation for the kids, they said it's not neccessary she has the passports. Then my son came back with a friend of mine while my little girl is still with my mum and dad... and mum was due to bring her here now...

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:03 pm

How long has the smaller child been out of the UK? and how old is she now?

I don't think Immigration is going to be receptive to this application.
She overstayed because she declared she was frail, that hasn't changed so they don't like people who may need to avail themselves of their health coverage. Meanwhile, upon her departure she had 2 children in tow, clearly she was vibrant enough to accompany them and she was being used for childcare.. Now she is trying to return with one of the children. Looks like she is ripe for another overstay either because she could become ill again or which they probably figured out, that you use her for childcare and you are not forthright enough to simply ask if she can get an extension.

Is there a reason why you didn't arrange for an extension?

Of course, they might let her go simply because she has your child and they shouldn't hold you up on that but then again they could just have someone else accompany the child

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Fri May 18, 2007 4:09 pm

SYH wrote:How long has the smaller child been out of the UK? and how old is she now?

I don't think Immigration is going to be receptive to this application.
She overstayed because she declared she was frail, that hasn't changed so they don't like people who may need to avail themselves of their health coverage. Meanwhile, upon her departure she had 2 children in tow, clearly she was vibrant enough to accompany them and she was being used for childcare.. Now she is trying to return with one of the children. Looks like she is ripe for another overstay either because she could become ill again or which they probably figured out, that you use her for childcare and you are not forthright enough to simply ask if she can get an extension.

Is there a reason why you didn't arrange for an extension?

Hi.. It's getting very interesting to see things now from a different prespective. Thanks for valid points...In fact she clearly stayed to help me with the little girl. Ihave a very good job and did not wish to sacrifice my career running around childminders... i decided my mum has the little girl (she goes to nursery and my mum works full time Engineer) because we moved house and location so I thought it would be best baby stays with mum...we will get the baby back... We were told unless she is physically ill the HO will not give her an extension. She could have gone back home at the end of the six month visa but the beaurocracy in obtaining the visa there it's unbelievable.. if they had given her one year visa as she had been here 7 times before in the space of 8 years.. she would have obeyed the time limit.. i really appreciate your time in replying to me.

Of course, they might let her go simply because she has your child and they shouldn't hold you up on that but then again they could just have someone else accompany the child

Jeff Albright · Post by **Jeff Albright** » Fri May 18, 2007 10:20 pm

I am afraid, this application will probably be refused... it has to be as per the Rules.
Your mum has not changed her name. hasn't she? What did she put in the application form when answering the question "have you ever been removed, deported or otherwise asked to leave the UK"? If the IS151A has been given it means that she would have had to include this information into her visa application form. What did she say "Is this your first passport?"

In theory. your mum will never be able come back to the UK as a visitor anymore. Other routes will have to be used.

She might have had her reasons of staying over her visa but it was against the law for her to do so.

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:50 am

Jeff Albright wrote:I am afraid, this application will probably be refused... it has to be as per the Rules.
Your mum has not changed her name. hasn't she? What did she put in the application form when answering the question "have you ever been removed, deported or otherwise asked to leave the UK"? If the IS151A has been given it means that she would have had to include this information into her visa application form. What did she say "Is this your first passport?"

In theory. your mum will never be able come back to the UK as a visitor anymore. Other routes will have to be used.

She might have had her reasons of staying over her visa but it was against the law for her to do so.

hi Jeff.Many thanks for your reply even though heartbreaking. She hasn't changed her name, she hasn't said no to the questions. you say she will never be able to come to UK as a visitor again... What other routes are then? Surely she has a right to come and see her only daughter in UK and the grand children at some time? Can you please advice?I would really appreciate your reply.Regards Alba

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:53 am

Your response to my section don't show up
Can you write it again?

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:52 am

SYH wrote:Your response to my section don't show up
Can you write it again?

Hi.. THANK for your info. i am writing the response again...
what can you advise...on this...did you read Jeff's comment? It's getting very interesting to see things now from a different prespective. Thanks for valid points...In fact she clearly stayed to help me with the little girl. Ihave a very good job and did not wish to sacrifice my career running around childminders... i decided my mum has the little girl (she goes to nursery and my mum works full time Engineer) because we moved house and location so I thought it would be best baby stays with mum...we will get the baby back... We were told unless she is physically ill the HO will not give her an extension. She could have gone back home at the end of the six month visa but the beaurocracy in obtaining the visa there it's unbelievable.. if they had given her one year visa as she had been here 7 times before in the space of 8 years.. she would have obeyed the time limit.. i really appreciate your time in replying to me.

many thanks
alba

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:57 am

alba29 wrote:
Jeff Albright wrote:I am afraid, this application will probably be refused... it has to be as per the Rules.
Your mum has not changed her name. hasn't she? What did she put in the application form when answering the question "have you ever been removed, deported or otherwise asked to leave the UK"? If the IS151A has been given it means that she would have had to include this information into her visa application form. What did she say "Is this your first passport?"

In theory. your mum will never be able come back to the UK as a visitor anymore. Other routes will have to be used.

She might have had her reasons of staying over her visa but it was against the law for her to do so.
hi Jeff.Many thanks for your reply even though heartbreaking. She hasn't changed her name, she hasn't said no to the questions. you say she will never be able to come to UK as a visitor again... What other routes are then? Surely she has a right to come and see her only daughter in UK and the grand children at some time? Can you please advice?I would really appreciate your reply.Regards Alba

Jeff can you possibly advise me on what to do next within the UK. do I need to appeal against the IS151A form handed to her... do I ask mum to withdraw the visa application(they havent' given her a decision yet)?
Your help is much appreciated

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat May 19, 2007 12:02 pm

HI Alba
I am really sorry but it doesnt sound very promising.
It is very difficult to get the visa and instead of sending her back and requesting a new one, you had her overstay which is a no no.
You didnt indicate that she whether she was served with is515a, unless that is just a formality and they give you that at the border when they found she had overstayed.

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:48 pm

SYH wrote:HI Alba
I am really sorry but it doesnt sound very promising.
It is very difficult to get the visa and instead of sending her back and requesting a new one, you had her overstay which is a no no.
You didnt indicate that she whether she was served with is515a, unless that is just a formality and they give you that at the border when they found she had overstayed.

Hi
Glad to hear from you. Many thanks for all the explanation. Yes they gave her at gatwick airport the IS151A form. Ireally don't know what that was for as she was going back home it's not they cought her doing sth here... poor mum... What is your advice. They embassy said they will call her to let her know about the application.In the meantime they are doing some checks in her application.What does that mean?
Kind regards
Alba

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:18 pm

Honestly Alba, there isnt really anything you can do. I am really surprised that your mom's application hasnt been denied already which maybe shows there is a ray of hope. However, you need to come to grips with the fact that you broke the rules. I get a sense of a distinctive lack of culpability on your part and although the HO wouldnt know your attitude regarding that. It is this kind of intentional behaviour is the reason why the HO is so tough on overstayers and won't entertain bobbles made by people no matter how benign or good intentioned.
Options, Wait and See, you might get lucky.
Two, Seek legal advice
Three, Write an empassioned plea which you can wait to write after you get a response.

Good Luck, I hope the HO is in a good mood for your sake.

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sat May 19, 2007 10:37 pm

SYH wrote:Honestly Alba, there isnt really anything you can do. I am really surprised that your mom's application hasnt been denied already which maybe shows there is a ray of hope. However, you need to come to grips with the fact that you broke the rules. I get a sense of a distinctive lack of culpability on your part and although the HO wouldnt know your attitude regarding that. It is this kind of intentional behaviour is the reason why the HO is so tough on overstayers and won't entertain bobbles made by people no matter how benign or good intentioned.
Options, Wait and See, you might get lucky.
Two, Seek legal advice
Three, Write an empassioned plea which you can wait to write after you get a response.

Good Luck, I hope the HO is in a good mood for your sake.

Hi
I really feel guilty for that of course I do. I did brake the rules and I am honest about it...but the intentions were not for bad. She did never engage in any activity or employement whatsoever. Why write to HO and not the embassy. What record might she have in the HO. They only caught her when she was actually at the boarding gate...and they gave her that IS151a paper. Could you please help me withs some info as to what record HO has about that. Anyway I just want to say a big thank you for being so frank and honest and for the advice too. Cheers,Alba

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:06 pm

if they had given her one year visa as she had been here 7 times before in the space of 8 years.. she would have obeyed the time limit.

The one year visa doesn't give her a 12 month uninterrupted stay. Even if she had that visa she would have been in violation.

I do not believe she could reasonably use the excuse of being unwell. If she were unwell how come she was well enough to look after the kids?

I do not believe her poor command of English caused her to overstay. (Why was she not being advised by those children in high paying jobs with slimline telephones and space for a pony?)

...but the intentions were not for bad. She did never engage in any activity or employement whatsoever

When someone has broken the rules the HO doesn't focus on what their favourite colour is. Or their star sign. That she hasn't taken any employment, has good intentions, says her prayers daily... is neither here nor there for them.

I really feel guilty for that of course I do

It seriously doesn't come across as such. Your latest defence is that they discovered her overstay only when she was leaving the country and not while she was overstaying without permission. Your tone suggests it's a bit ... their fault.

the beaurocracy in obtaining the visa there it's unbelievable..

OK, here's some free advice: Stop acting the victim. You're trying to make excuses for what was a straightforward (and possibly well informed) violation of visa rules. Do you seriously believe that anyone at the HO is going to view her position with sympathy because you think their colleagues are bureaucratic? Give that up. IMHO. Ask her to grovel, apologise, and be completely honest. If that doesn't work get a good lawyer.

alba29 · Post by **alba29** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:28 am

OL7MAX wrote:
if they had given her one year visa as she had been here 7 times before in the space of 8 years.. she would have obeyed the time limit.
The one year visa doesn't give her a 12 month uninterrupted stay. Even if she had that visa she would have been in violation.

I do not believe she could reasonably use the excuse of being unwell. If she were unwell how come she was well enough to look after the kids?

I do not believe her poor command of English caused her to overstay. (Why was she not being advised by those children in high paying jobs with slimline telephones and space for a pony?)

Sorry you are a bit wrong here. No pony and no slimline telephones...just a graduate who was managed to put her career ahead for the kids and really works hard...

...but the intentions were not for bad. She did never engage in any activity or employement whatsoever
When someone has broken the rules the HO doesn't focus on what their favourite colour is. Or their star sign. That she hasn't taken any employment, has good intentions, says her prayers daily... is neither here nor there for them.

of course I understand that. HO always practises EO.

I really feel guilty for that of course I do
It seriously doesn't come across as such. Your latest defence is that they discovered her overstay only when she was leaving the country and not while she was overstaying without permission. Your tone suggests it's a bit ... their fault.

No of course it's not their fault... but you do sometimes get put off by the beurocracies...
the beaurocracy in obtaining the visa there it's unbelievable..
OK, here's some free advice: Stop acting the victim. You're trying to make excuses for what was a straightforward (and possibly well informed) violation of visa rules. Do you seriously believe that anyone at the HO is going to view her position with sympathy because you think their colleagues are bureaucratic? Give that up. IMHO. Ask her to grovel, apologise, and be completely honest. If that doesn't work get a good lawyer.

thank you for honest advice. I appreciate. so you suggest when they call my mum to attend embassy she appologises (of course we will appologies...i am going to write a letter as SYH suggests and will be willing to pay any fine if there is such one and yes she will be honest. I am in the process of getting a lawer...whatever the case is.. but do you think she will have a chance of coming to UK again? We willnever repeat this scenario again? Or she will be barred for ever? Many thanks

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:05 pm

"I appreciate that ignorance is no excuse and I make no excuse" is probably her best line.

The chances look bleak but Mr Loophole gets celebrities off even open-and-shut speeding and "DUI" cases. There must be something a good immigration lawyer can do.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:26 pm

OL7MAX wrote:"I appreciate that ignorance is no excuse and I make no excuse" is probably her best line.

The chances look bleak but Mr Loophole gets celebrities off even open-and-shut speeding and "DUI" cases. There must be something a good immigration lawyer can do.

OL7MAX, what about the issue of her mother looking after the children? Would the HO view that as working illegally? I dunno, but I know ur not allowed to do even unpaid work on a VV and the HO seem to be very letter of the law these days.....

They might well use this too as a reason for future rejection....

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:27 pm

Nah that was within the family. It isnt considered employment requiring authrisation

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sun May 20, 2007 12:34 pm

SYH wrote:Nah that was within the family. It isnt considered employment requiring authrisation

Woo, that's it then, I getting the Mother in Law over!!

OL7MAX · Post by **OL7MAX** » Sun May 20, 2007 1:28 pm

Nah that was within the family.

I wouldn't trust the HO to not argue employment. After all, this government is chasing housewives who take on a cleaning lady (for NI & PAYE). They're chasing owners of small companies for paying their wives a salary when the wife is not working for the company (example). They're chasing owners of small companies for NOT paying their wives a salary when the wife is working for the company (under minimum wage regs). You can't trust government to not interfere. More so a left of centre one.

The OP could be jailed for employing someone illegally, for not notifying the HO about an overstayer, for not paying PAYE, for sponsoring a known overstayer, for having the audacity to breathe without formal permission. ...unlike HMRC, fortunately for the OP, the HO isn't too hot. On anything. They're a blunder calling themselves a department, and they're unlikely to take her to court. But, yes, this could give the HO more ammunition at an IAT hearing.

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