Need advice, how to help a friend coming home!!!

[Jesus-INN]

Hello everybody,

I please need help in the hereafter case.

My very good friend lives in Cape Town - South Africa - since his birth,
which was in 1969.

His father was British, born in 1927 in Liverpool.
His mother was South African.
Both are already dead.

My friend has a "Certified Copy Of An Entry Of Birth" from his father .

The parents (grand parents) where Irish, but we have not a small bit of
information about them (except the names and the mother maiden name).

My question is now, is he British?
Is he entiteled to a British passport?

The bad thing was, that someone from the British immigrations told
him, that he is not entiteled to British citizenship, because his father was not married to his mother.

I can't believe this, because what is the difference married or not?

The problem was, that his father and mother where not allowed to marry,
because of problems (apartheid, UK marrying black woman, etc., etc.).


Thank you very much for all help in advance.
Please let me know, if more information is needed.


God bless


Jesus-INN

[Siggi]

I do beleive that the law has just recently change, which now allows illegitimate children of British fathers to claim full British Nationlity, providing that they where born after 1960- so your friend should qualify.
Unfortunatly I'm not sure where I read this.
But I think your friend should contact the British High Commission in Pretoria for further information and help.
Other wise wait a little longer and I sure someone on this board will come up with a better answer.

[Dawie]

Does your friend's birth certificate clearly list the British parent as his father?

[Siggi]

Dawie,

You have a point, he will need a South African unabridge birth certificate and on that it will be the name of the father and mother.

I'm not sure if the nationality is stated.Not that it should make any difference, so long as he has the Father British birth certificate and his own unabridge birth certicate.

[John]

As regards Nationality the BIA website is still saying ""Parent" does not include the father of an illegitimate child.", which is dreadful, given the former South African Act of Parliament, the Mixed Marriages Act!

But based upon what has been posted, the person concerned seems to qualify for a UK Ancestry visa. But can you confirm, is the father's name on the birth certificate of this person?

Qualified to apply for an Ancestry visa are :-

Do I qualify for UK Ancestry?

You will qualify if you can show that:

* you are a Commonwealth citizen
* you are aged 17 or over
* you have a grandparent who was born in the UK, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man (see note below)
* you have a grandparent who was born in what is now the Republic of Ireland before 31 March 1922 (see note below)
* you are able to work and intend to do so in the UK, and
* you can support yourself and any dependants, and live without needing any help from public funds.

-: and it appears that there are grandparents that allow such an application. That is, if the father was born in 1927 then the grandparents were clearly born before 31.03.1922.

Now just a question of tracking down the birth certificates of those grandparents. Maybe first try to track down their marriage certificate, and that hopefully will give their ages at the time of the marriage, and thus narrow the date range for when they were born.

Possibility of Irish Nationality? This webpage suggests that it might be easy to claim Irish Citizenship, given that if the grandparents were Irish. Whether the fact that the parents were not married makes any difference is not mentioned.

[JAJ]

I do beleive that the law has just recently change, which now allows illegitimate children of British fathers to claim full British Nationlity, providing that they where born after 1960- so your friend should qualify.

This is incorrect information. You are confused with the law change relating to children of British mothers born overseas between 1961 and 1982.

The law change on unmarried fathers only affects those born on or after 1 July 2006. Those born before then can be registered as British citizens, but only while still under 18.

[JAJ]

Possibility of Irish Nationality? This webpage suggests that it might be easy to claim Irish Citizenship, given that if the grandparents were Irish. Whether the fact that the parents were not married makes any difference is not mentioned.

It seems that it doesn't matter. Section 5 of the Republic of Ireland's Status of Children Act 1987 says that:

"5. —It is hereby declared that, in relation to a child, any reference to "father", "mother" or "parent" in the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Acts, 1956 and 1986, includes and shall be deemed always to have included the father, mother or parent, as the case may require, who was not married to the child's other parent at the time of the child's birth or at any time during the period of ten months preceding the birth."

http://www.bailii.org/ie/legis/num_act/ ... 987.1.html

However to make an application to register as an Irish citizen:

1. At least one grandparent must have been born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland (a lot of people find out the link is only great-grandparent)

2. Acquisition of Irish citizenship this way may cause loss of South African citizenship unless permission to keep it is obtained in advance.

There is no reason why someone cannot pursue both an Ancestry Visa and Irish citizenship by registration simultaneously.

[Siggi]

JAJ,

Thanks for setting the record straight, so I must have mis-read the article.

But I'm right in saying that this law did change very recently, if so where did you read it?

[JAJ]

JAJ,

Thanks for setting the record straight, so I must have mis-read the article.

But I'm right in saying that this law did change very recently, if so where did you read it?

Which law? Concerning British mothers, or unmarried fathers?

[Siggi]

JAJ,

I'm sure I read that the BNA had very recently changed the law to allow illegitimate childern of British father to become British.

The problem is I don't know where I read it!
All I know is that I read it either on this site or on the BNA site.

I will try later on to find it.

[Jesus-INN]

Hello again all of you,

First thank you very much for all your quick answers .

I have gone trough all of your replies and saw, that it is very important,
that the fathers name is on my friends south african birth certificate, isn't it?
I copied all this answers into a PDF and going to send it over to my friend.

As soon as I have an answer from him, I will post it here.

So talk to you soon
Thanks amillion again
and God bless


Jesus-INN

[JAJ]

JAJ,

I'm sure I read that the BNA had very recently changed the law to allow illegitimate childern of British father to become British.

The problem is I don't know where I read it!
All I know is that I read it either on this site or on the BNA site.

I will try later on to find it.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=8413

[Jesus-INN]

Possibility of Irish Nationality? This webpage suggests that it might be easy to claim Irish Citizenship, given that if the grandparents were Irish. Whether the fact that the parents were not married makes any difference is not mentioned.
_________________
John

However to make an application to register as an Irish citizen:

1. At least one grandparent must have been born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland (a lot of people find out the link is only great-grandparent)

2. Acquisition of Irish citizenship this way may cause loss of South African citizenship unless permission to keep it is obtained in advance.

There is no reason why someone cannot pursue both an Ancestry Visa and Irish citizenship by registration simultaneously.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello John, Hello Jaj

Thanks for your comments .
Let me understand it correctly (I am not english speaking mother tongue):

To become an Irish citizen, I only have to have/had irish grand parents!?

How can I proof that?

We don't have yet any useful information from the grand parents
(street, village/county) in Ireland.
The only thing we have, is the "Certified Copy Of An Entry Of Birth" of his father, born in West Derby Eastern Co. Liverpool, England in 1926 (sorry for the 1 year error).

Means do I need this information or is the birth certificate of the father with the name of the parents and the birth certificate of my friend (with the fathers name) enough?

Thanks in advance
I will come back to this forum, as soon as I got the information back from my friend.


God bless


Jesus-INN

[Wanderer]

Possibility of Irish Nationality? This webpage suggests that it might be easy to claim Irish Citizenship, given that if the grandparents were Irish. Whether the fact that the parents were not married makes any difference is not mentioned.
_________________
John

However to make an application to register as an Irish citizen:

1. At least one grandparent must have been born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland (a lot of people find out the link is only great-grandparent)

2. Acquisition of Irish citizenship this way may cause loss of South African citizenship unless permission to keep it is obtained in advance.

There is no reason why someone cannot pursue both an Ancestry Visa and Irish citizenship by registration simultaneously.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello John, Hello Jaj

Thanks for your comments :P .
Let me understand it correctly (I am not english speaking mother tongue):

To become an Irish citizen, I only have to have/had irish grand parents!?

How can I proof that?

We don't have yet any useful information from the grand parents
(street, village/county) in Ireland.
The only thing we have, is the "Certified Copy Of An Entry Of Birth" of his father, born in West Derby Eastern Co. Liverpool, England in 1926 (sorry for the 1 year error).

Means do I need this information or is the birth certificate of the father with the name of the parents and the birth certificate of my friend (with the fathers name) enough?

Thanks in advance
I will come back to this forum, as soon as I got the information back from my friend.


God bless


Jesus-INN

From when I did this I think u need not only birth certificates but marriage and death certs too. For parent and grandparent.

Get's quite expensive and time consuming.

My lineage turned out to be quite undocumented.......

[JAJ]

To become an Irish citizen, I only have to have/had irish grand parents!?

How can I proof that?

We don't have yet any useful information from the grand parents
(street, village/county) in Ireland.
The only thing we have, is the "Certified Copy Of An Entry Of Birth" of his father, born in West Derby Eastern Co. Liverpool, England in 1926 (sorry for the 1 year error).

Means do I need this information or is the birth certificate of the father with the name of the parents and the birth certificate of my friend (with the fathers name) enough?

If you have a grandparent born in the Republic of Ireland or Northern Ireland then you may apply for registration as an Irish citizen.

You will need to show the relationship with birth/marriage certificates.

Details of the addresses to obtain these are at:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... dvice/bn16

As an Irish citizen, you are a permanent resident immediately upon arrival in the United Kingdom, and can apply for British citizenship by naturalisation after the normal residence period (5 years, 3 years if married to a Briton).