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I am happy to try. Where would you like extra light? I am not sure if you are asking about applicability of the Singh ruling to Ireland, or about you moving to the UK.Static wrote:Can anybody shed some light on it? I haven't been living here 'legally' although it wasn't 'illegally' because my application was in process. Therefore surely it doesn't apply to me? Also.. my two months in England doesn't count as legal quite clearly by my rejection letter.
No, nobody has asked me to leave. I don't think I would be able to apply for an EEA family permit for a weekend visit as we don't require visas to travel in the UK. I will, however, try to do this.Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:I am happy to try. Where would you like extra light?Static wrote:Can anybody shed some light on it? I haven't been living here 'legally' although it wasn't 'illegally' because my application was in process. Therefore surely it doesn't apply to me? Also.. my two months in England doesn't count as legal quite clearly by my rejection letter.
You have definitely been living legally in Ireland. I doubt anyone has asked you to leave or suggested you were not living in Ireland legally. Because of that, I think you will have no problem if you and your partner apply for an EEA family permit for a weekend trip to the UK. Did you get a family permit for the pervious trip?
Finally, I take it from your post that you had time in the UK previously and you had mentioned that in your EU1 application. If that is correct, what evidence did you provide of previous UK residency? What exactly did the Irish government say in their rejection letter about that time?
Runie.. have you tried calling the DOJ? It is nearly impossible to get through. Then.. IF you manage to get through 9/10 times they put the phone down on you. Also.. if you ring them they speak absolute nonsense. Almost all of us were told that we just need to arrive here, do the EU1 thing and we CANNOT be refused. Ringing them is a waste of time.runie80 wrote:Call the Feckers and ask them
I am not a mind reader. so kinldy please explain what you mean by "must submit evidence showing lawful residence in another EU Member State"
can you be more specific as you are about the acceptance of documents so why dont u point out exactly what documents you need ?
Tell them show me any document saying that this will not be accepted intermes of " lawful residence in another EU Member State"
Get everything from them in writing
The cheeky feckers are just playing arround with you.
If they will give me a call like that.My next step will be going to Garda station and lodge and official complain. They cant be messing to everyone like this.
This is a fecking JOKE !
So what you are going to do then ? you cant sit without working and in this limbo situation. They have to give you some sort of a clear explainiation.Runie.. have you tried calling the DOJ? It is nearly impossible to get through. Then.. IF you manage to get through 9/10 times they put the phone down on you. Also.. if you ring them they speak absolute nonsense. Almost all of us were told that we just need to arrive here, do the EU1 thing and we CANNOT be refused. Ringing them is a waste of time.
I am not sitting down at all. I am going for a job interview today to try and swing somebody into applying for a workpermit for me.runie80 wrote:So what you are going to do then ? you cant sit without working and in this limbo situation. They have to give you some sort of a clear explainiation.Runie.. have you tried calling the DOJ? It is nearly impossible to get through. Then.. IF you manage to get through 9/10 times they put the phone down on you. Also.. if you ring them they speak absolute nonsense. Almost all of us were told that we just need to arrive here, do the EU1 thing and we CANNOT be refused. Ringing them is a waste of time.
Do you have the right to appeal ?
get the soliciter and go down that appeal route if they took longer than 6 months they are alreday in breach of the conditions.
Call them and speak to the manager and ask them you want to discuss this with someone in authority.
raise the profile for your case
ring the papers and get it in press or something man.
If you are in right you shouldnt be affraid
There are loads of people who got refused like u but the problem is that you accept it as your fate
"defeat is not when you fall down its when you cant get up "
Keep the ball in their court !
Decsion expected in the court soon hopefully we will get sorted and after thet i would love to rub it in their face !
The UK requires that all spouses of EU citizens get an EEA family permit if they are entering on that basis, so you can definitely apply for it. You do not need to normally require a visa.Static wrote:No, nobody has asked me to leave. I don't think I would be able to apply for an EEA family permit for a weekend visit as we don't require visas to travel in the UK. I will, however, try to do this.
Were you legally in the UK, with entry stamps on your passport for the time?Static wrote:I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract. In the rejection letter they said: '....The provisions of Regulation 3 (2) require that in order to avail of residency rights under the regulations, applicants must submit evidence showing lawful residence in another EU Member State prior to arrival in Ireland. Following a thorough examinaion of your file, it was decided that no evidence was submitted to satisfy this requirement and that therefore, residence can not be granted....' In other words... the bills, letters and rental contract in England mean absolutely nothing.
Yes entry stamps and all that - totally legalDirective/2004/38/EC wrote:The UK requires that all spouses of EU citizens get an EEA family permit if they are entering on that basis, so you can definitely apply for it. You do not need to normally require a visa.Static wrote:No, nobody has asked me to leave. I don't think I would be able to apply for an EEA family permit for a weekend visit as we don't require visas to travel in the UK. I will, however, try to do this.
Were you legally in the UK, with entry stamps on your passport for the time?Static wrote:I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract. In the rejection letter they said: '....The provisions of Regulation 3 (2) require that in order to avail of residency rights under the regulations, applicants must submit evidence showing lawful residence in another EU Member State prior to arrival in Ireland. Following a thorough examinaion of your file, it was decided that no evidence was submitted to satisfy this requirement and that therefore, residence can not be granted....' In other words... the bills, letters and rental contract in England mean absolutely nothing.
That is another benefit of getting an EEA family permit, if even for a short visit. With the family permit in your passport, you will definitely be legally resident in the UK for the duration of your trip. And then you can point to the EEA family permit, and to the entry stamp in your passport for that visit to prove your legal residency.
Good for you for keeping positive and looking for more ways to force the Irish government to behave properly!
For the Surinder Singh cases in the UK, the general recommendation is to prove that you've lived in another EU country, with the EU citizen "exercising his/her treaty rights", for at least six months. I don't know that this number is official, but I believe that's what's considered the least amount of time that the UK would look upon as "residency" and "exercising treaty rights". Maybe Ireland is doing the same?I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract.
Ah! Thank youPlatinum wrote:For the Surinder Singh cases in the UK, the general recommendation is to prove that you've lived in another EU country, with the EU citizen "exercising his/her treaty rights", for at least six months. I don't know that this number is official, but I believe that's what's considered the least amount of time that the UK would look upon as "residency" and "exercising treaty rights". Maybe Ireland is doing the same?I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract.
Even if that is the requirement, it's not like they'd tell us, of course.
If you are a spouse of an EU citizen, then there is no requirement that you be or intend to be in the UK for 6 months before you are considered resident. UK law explicitly considers you resident in the UK if you visit for a day or two. The UK transposition of Directive 2004/38/EC is The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 and says:Platinum wrote:For the Surinder Singh cases in the UK, the general recommendation is to prove that you've lived in another EU country, with the EU citizen "exercising his/her treaty rights", for at least six months. I don't know that this number is official, but I believe that's what's considered the least amount of time that the UK would look upon as "residency" and "exercising treaty rights". Maybe Ireland is doing the same?I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract.
UK law is clear that the EU national and the non-EU family member are residing in the UK for any visit to the UK made on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC.Initial right of residence
13.—(1) An EEA national is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom for a period not exceeding three months beginning on the date on which he is admitted to the United Kingdom provided that he holds a valid national identity card or passport issued by an EEA State.
(2) A family member of an EEA national residing in the United Kingdom under paragraph (1) who is not himself an EEA national is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom provided that he holds a valid passport.
(3) But—
(a) this regulation is subject to regulation 19(3)(b); and
(b) an EEA national or his family member who becomes an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom shall cease to have the right to reside under this regulation.
In fact the Irish transposition also talks about residence in Ireland for less than three months and residence in Ireland for more than three months.(2) These Regulations shall not apply to a family member unless the family member is lawfully resident in another Member State and is -
(a) seeking to enter the State in the company of a Union citizen in respect of whom he or she is a family member, or
(b) seeking to join a Union citizen, in respect of whom he or she is a family member, who is lawfully present in the State.
Residence in the State
6. (1) Subject to Regulation 20, a person to whom these Regulations apply may reside in the State for
up to 3 months on condition that he or she -
(a) (i) where the person is a Union citizen, holds a valid national identity card or passport,
(ii) where the person is not a Union citizen, holds a valid passport, and
(b) does not become an unreasonable burden on the social welfare system of the State.
Right.. now I am even more confused as to why I was rejected??Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:If you are a spouse of an EU citizen, then there is no requirement that you be or intend to be in the UK for 6 months before you are considered resident. UK law explicitly considers you resident in the UK if you visit for a day or two. The UK transposition of Directive 2004/38/EC is The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 and says:Platinum wrote:For the Surinder Singh cases in the UK, the general recommendation is to prove that you've lived in another EU country, with the EU citizen "exercising his/her treaty rights", for at least six months. I don't know that this number is official, but I believe that's what's considered the least amount of time that the UK would look upon as "residency" and "exercising treaty rights". Maybe Ireland is doing the same?I provided proof of residing in the UK by means of bills, letters and a rental contract.UK law is clear that the EU national and the non-EU family member are residing in the UK for any visit to the UK made on the basis of Directive 2004/38/EC.Initial right of residence
13.—(1) An EEA national is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom for a period not exceeding three months beginning on the date on which he is admitted to the United Kingdom provided that he holds a valid national identity card or passport issued by an EEA State.
(2) A family member of an EEA national residing in the United Kingdom under paragraph (1) who is not himself an EEA national is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom provided that he holds a valid passport.
(3) But—
(a) this regulation is subject to regulation 19(3)(b); and
(b) an EEA national or his family member who becomes an unreasonable burden on the social assistance system of the United Kingdom shall cease to have the right to reside under this regulation.
EU law (in Directive 2004/38/EC) is also clear that this is residing.
The Irish transposition of the Directive says only that the person must be lawfully resident in another member state, and does not specify the number of days.
S.I. No. 656 of 2006
European Communities (Free Movement of Persons) (No. 2) Regulations 2006In fact the Irish transposition also talks about residence in Ireland for less than three months and residence in Ireland for more than three months.(2) These Regulations shall not apply to a family member unless the family member is lawfully resident in another Member State and is -
(a) seeking to enter the State in the company of a Union citizen in respect of whom he or she is a family member, or
(b) seeking to join a Union citizen, in respect of whom he or she is a family member, who is lawfully present in the State.Residence in the State
6. (1) Subject to Regulation 20, a person to whom these Regulations apply may reside in the State for
up to 3 months on condition that he or she -
(a) (i) where the person is a Union citizen, holds a valid national identity card or passport,
(ii) where the person is not a Union citizen, holds a valid passport, and
(b) does not become an unreasonable burden on the social welfare system of the State.