Lost of Approval letter

[ishkad]

They have sent the approval letter on 08.06.2007 after my application for reviw.

but Even after the expiry of 22 days, no news about the document.

But i have already resigned from the present company with hope that I would get documents with in a month since minimum notice period is one month.

I am in big problem.

Can Any body help? HSMP team says I need to wait for 12 weeks to get replacement letter.

PLz help me out.

[ball1333]

**DISCLAIMER: the scenario I lay out below not be completely above-board. I am not suggesting that the original poster has any special rights to which no one else is entitled. I am sure he has learned a very valuable lesson about counting your chickens before they are hatched: don't resign a job until you have all your paperwork IN-HAND. Delays happen, post can go missing, etc. Chastising him for his poor judgment will not help his situation so I am trying to be constructive here.**

Do you have all your original evidence (diploma, wage slips, tax returns, etc.) in hand? I had all my documents with me before I got the approval letter because my app was initially refused and I applied for a review.

If you have your original evidence and could feasibly apply for EC tomorrow if only you had the approval letter, you could try faxing a letter to the HSMP team saying that you received the approval letter and it has been utterly misplaced, and you need a replacement. If you say you already received the letter and that it is missing because of some reason OTHER than the post being slow or late, you stand a better chance of getting a replacement letter sooner. You should probably arrange for a courier to collect the duplicate approval letter to ensure you receive it quickly.

If you decide to send a fax, be sure to state in the fax all the information associated with your case: name, correspondence postal address, e-mail, phone, fax number, and HSMP ref. number.

Another option is to try to reneg on your notice period at work and tell your boss that you will be available for another several weeks after all, and wait for the original letter to show up, if it ever does.....

[ishkad]

Thank you for reply. But I have already informed them about non-received of the decision letter.

They have sent me mail to wait at least for 10 weeks to receive the replacement letter.

As you said I have already received all orginal documents along with first decision letter which I received in 5 days from the date of dispatch.

Why do send such importent documents with such normal post? Getting job back is no chance ! have to search for some temporary job! :(

Ishan
kathmandu

[gordon]

It seems to me that the letter will show up, eventually. But just as no one should admonish you for your precipitate resignation of your job, it's not appropriate to complain about the HO's use of regular post. Yes, it is bad luck; now you just need to sit tight. AG

[ball1333]

Thank you for reply. But I have already informed them about non-received of the decision letter.

They have sent me mail to wait at least for 10 weeks to receive the replacement letter.

As you said I have already received all orginal documents along with first decision letter which I received in 5 days from the date of dispatch.

Why do send such importent documents with such normal post? Getting job back is no chance ! have to search for some temporary job!

Ishan
kathmandu

Ishan, you are missing my point. Say, for example, you notified them last Wednesday that you did not receive the letter. It is possible that you received the letter on Thursday (the next day) and then misplaced it on Friday, is it not? Sometimes we do not have something one day, then we have the next, then we lose it the third day. It can happen.

What did you expect when you posted on this board? Sympathy? No one here is going to feel very sorry for you. You knew when you submitted your resignation that the letter was "in the post", not *in your hand*. You also have posted some messages reflecting that you are not sure you have enough money for EC. You are scrambling and unprepared at this time. You feel scared and uncertain because you jumped the gun and did not do enough research on the front end. Now is the time to think about what you CAN do next to fix this mess, not blame others.

My dad always says, "Let them tell you no, don't tell yourself no first". Have you *asked* if you can extend your contract with your current company? Think about it from their perspective: every week that you work for them, they can save money in this year because they will have a trained, up-to-speed person doing the work. If they have to hire a newbie, that person will need training and won't be as productive as you. IF your boss says you are not worth keeping and your replacement has already been hired, say you want to help train your replacement to ensure the smoothest possible transition. You could even sign a new contract, a temporary one, for a period of X weeks, with your same employer (consulting!). I have heard of this happening a number of times in the US; I imagine it's happened at least once in the history of your company.

If you truly are screwed and stuck in your situation, you could always just have some HOPE that the letter will turn up next week. It took 20 days for my approval letter to arrive, vs. the usual airmail time of 4-5 days. I prayed every day that I would use good judgment even though I felt very anxious (to my mind, praying the letter would show up wasn't the point). It's amazing how a little hope can change how you see most problems in your life.

[SYH]

Let's try to be more constructive
Can you ask HSMP for the reference number of your approval so you can apply for EC? And in the EC application, indicate that the letter approval seems to be lost in the mail but they can check with hsmp regarding approval but you do not wish to wait 12 weeks and lose time

[ishkad]

I have already checked with Visa section, they say "Orginal Approval letter is must".

My employer have extended my stay by 3 more weeks. Hope by that time I will get the mail.

Thank you all for giving gud suggestion.

i will update once I receive the approval letter.

Ishan
Kathmandu

[nshar1]

Sorry for being so negative..but these are facts....

The loss of the letter is not by bad luck. It is intentional on part of HO.

Not sending the documents is their way of filtering applicants they cannot reject but don't want to approve either.

HO is a SCAM !!! They will never feel responsible for their stupidities.

They play these dirty games. The letter has not been sent by them. but you cannot prove that they haven't sent the letter.

[PounceQuick]

nshar1, that is such a ridiculous allegation. The letter is lost and that is it. You can always get a replacement letter from Home Office and that's what the OP is getting in 10 weeks time after making sure that the letter is lost.

Letter does get lost in transit unfortunately, it's just bad luck.

[ball1333]

I have already checked with Visa section, they say "Orginal Approval letter is must".

This means you cannot supply a photocopy or fax or whatever of the letter. It does not mean that you cannot supply an approval letter stamped "duplicate" by the HO. There is a stamped control number on the bottom of each HSMP approval letter, and there is a raised embossed stamp below the signature area. In addition, the stationery is watermarked with the royal insignia of Elizabeth II. If all those characteristics are present, your approval letter will be taken as an "original" even if it is stamped "duplicate" as a replacement for a lost letter. A letter stamped "duplicate" is what you can expect at the end of your 12-week wait, fyi.

[ishkad]

Thank you for suggestion.

I am in constant touch with case workes and they have ponit that letter will reach sonner or later.

I am just waiting for letter n passing through less productive time.

But I consider HO rule regading 3 month period is unjustifyable.
Thanks god, I got my orginal document along with first disicon letter.

Regrds
Ishan

[ball1333]

Say, for example, you notified them last Wednesday that you did not receive the letter. It is possible that you received the letter on Thursday (the next day) and then misplaced it on Friday, is it not? Sometimes we do not have something one day, then we have the next, then we lose it the third day. It can happen.

If you lose the approval letter in a flood or something, obviously there is a provision to replace the document. Think about it.

If you're not bothered enough to go out of your way to get what you want, you may as well stop moaning about your situation.
http://www.gapingvoid.com/11444661460.jpg

[nshar1]

Hey PounceQuick,
You may find the allegation as ridiculous but its a fact. HO plays these dirty games.

Give me your personal mailId and I will convince you that these HO people can get real dirty.

Try searching on stories about HO and you will find multiple instances of their unethical behaviour.

[WoodieG]

Thank you for reply. But I have already informed them about non-received of the decision letter.

They have sent me mail to wait at least for 10 weeks to receive the replacement letter.

As you said I have already received all orginal documents along with first decision letter which I received in 5 days from the date of dispatch.

Why do send such importent documents with such normal post? Getting job back is no chance ! have to search for some temporary job!

Ishan
kathmandu

If you were worried about the safe return of your documents why didn't you arrange for a courier to collect them?
________
GLASS PIPE PICTURES

[gordon]

nshar1
Well, you may well be right, but let's be frank, if that's true and representative of the broader applications handling process (and I'm not convinced that it is), it would only be tit-for-tat for all those people who also play games in this process - falsified documents, rules bent beyond recognition. So it's not really anything about which to get upset or to write inflammatory comments; I'm sure that it all evens out in the end.
AG

[nshar1]

Gordon,
The facts stated by me are absolutely true. This happens to a good percentage of applications. If you go thru all the posts, you will realize that lots of applicants are facing problems due to ever changing rules and interpretation of the rules by HO.

You will be able to realize the intensity of the problem if you put yourself in the shoes of those people who have lost their documents, are being made to run around in the dirty processes or for that matter are suffering due to discrimanatory rule changes.

Speaks poorly of a country. The government and govt officials should set a good example, especially when they are talking to outsiders.

You want more examples of dirtyness of HO, give me ur mailId and I will prove to you how dirty they can get.

NShar1

[gordon]

An interesting perspective, but I rather suspect there is some selection bias inherent in a forum such as this. As it is, I am not convinced that accounts here can be taken as fully representative (95% confidence interval, as it were) - people tend not come to discuss how seamless the process can be. My own experience, albeit rather protracted, was a very good one; my conversations with my caseworker and her manager were very positive, helpful, and respectful. Is my experience simply random error ? So rather than putting myself in anyone else's shoes, an endeavour that engenders a myopic view in any case, I have merely suggested evaluating the situation from a broad-based view. Yes, of course, there are problems. But are they sufficient justification to condemn the whole ? Is it constructive to take a combative position by default ? No, and no, as far as I can tell.
AG

[PounceQuick]

I'm not convinced that Home Office intentionally lose your documents. Just why would they? They can simply reject your application if they don't have a good ground that the documents are real.

Rather than sending mail to me privately why don't you post it here for everyone to see?

[nshar1]

Gordon & QuickPounce,
I have 10+ mails to prove that the loss of docs by HO is intentional. I will paste just one of them in the next posting.

Let me explain my case:
1) HO lost my originals(they claim it was lost in transit)
2) After waiting for 12 weeks, I was told that they will be sending the reprint within 6-weeks.
3) I explicitly told them multiple times that I wish to arrange a courier
4) They claim they have sent me the reprint by normal airmail and I should allow 12 weeks to receive this
5) As expected, this letter hasn't reached me.
6)Now I am being told to wait for another 12 weeks before I can ask for a reprint.

7) There is more non-sense going on..but I will point that out some other day.


In my next post please look at the reply to my mail from HO.
To my reminder mail and fax dated 28th may, they say that as my letter reached them after they had dispatched the letter by normal airmal(on 29-May), they didn't ask me to arrange a courier.

Don't you realize that this is purely intentional. Not even a fool will call it a coincidence. How can my fax sent on 28-may reach them after after they have sent the letter by normal airmail.

For your information 3 more things:
1)In my initial request for this letter, I had clearly mentioned that I wish to arrange a courier
2)Each and every document which I had sent to them was 100% true
3)I made a complaint to their complaint cell. The complaint cell says that they have sent their response by normal airmail. This again seems to have lost

Think !!!

[nshar1]

Gordon & QuickPounce,
I have 10+ mails to prove that the loss of docs by HO is intentional. I will paste just one of them in the next posting.

Let me explain my case:
1) HO lost my originals(they claim it was lost in transit)
2) After waiting for 12 weeks, I was told that they will be sending the reprint within 6-weeks.
3) I explicitly told them multiple times that I wish to arrange a courier
4) They claim they have sent me the reprint by normal airmail and I should allow 12 weeks to receive this
5) As expected, this letter hasn't reached me.
6)Now I am being told to wait for another 12 weeks before I can ask for a reprint.

7) There is more non-sense going on..but I will point that out some other day.


In my next post please look at the reply to my mail from HO.
To my reminder mail and fax dated 28th may, they say that as my letter reached them after they had dispatched the letter by normal airmal(on 29-May), they didn't ask me to arrange a courier.

Don't you realize that this is purely intentional. Not even a fool will call it a coincidence. How can my fax sent on 28-may reach them after after they have sent the letter by normal airmail.

For your information 3 more things:
1)In my initial request for this letter, I had clearly mentioned that I wish to arrange a courier
2)Each and every document which I had sent to them was 100% true
3)I made a complaint to their complaint cell. The complaint cell says that they have sent their response by normal airmail. This again seems to have lost.

Think !!!

[nshar1]

Hi

You were sent a letter on 25 June addressing the concerns raised in your complaint, this was dispatched via airmail to the address you provided. Recent national postal strikes and flooding in Sheffield and across much of south Yorkshire could of potentially delayed the time taken in you receiving the letter. Please by patient as it is in transit.

Regards, XXXXXX
Complaints and Compensation Team

[nshar1]

Dear Sir/Madam

Thankyou for your email.

Your decision letter has been reprinted and sent to the following address by airmail on the 29th May 2007 to the following address:


XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

Unfortunately, we received your request for courier collection after we had despatched your reprint. You should note that airmail items can take up to 12 weeks to be delivered and we cannot consider these items as lost until 12 weeks has elapsed.

Kindest Regards

XXXXXXX
HSMP Team



Following was the mail I had sent to them



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: XXXXX
Sent: 28 May 2007 10:51
To: Workpermits, HSMP
Subject: XXXXXX

XXXXXXXX
Dated: 28-May-2007



HSMP Team(WP)
PO Box 3468
Sheffield
S3 8WA

Subject: XXXXXXXXX

Dear Sir,
This is with respect to my reprint request pending with you from XX-April-2007.


Following are the details
to help you to identify my application:
XXXXX

I would like to arrange a courier to collect the decision letter.
I can be contacted on my email Id: XXXXXXX@XXXX.XXX for instructions for arranging the courier.

Thanking You



Yours Sincerely,
XXXXX



Please note I had sent this letter by fax too.

[nshar1]

Gordon/QuickPounce,

You agree that HO can get real dirty or you need more proofs.

Have you thought why ishkad's originals were sent in one mail and the letter in another and the letter got lost !!!!!


Wait..... let me post another mail communication from HO:

This was in my response to the request for reprint. Any thoughts why there is a high volume of reprint requests????:



Dear Sir/Madam

Thankyou for your email.

Your request has been noted and will be dealt with as soon as possible. Due to high volumes of reprint requests, it may take up to 6 weeks to process your request. Apologies for any inconvenience which may be caused.

Kindest Regards

XXXXXXXXX
HSMP Team

[nshar1]

Gordon,
What makes you assume that they overlooked only one fax and not more. My original reprint request letter also had a request for arranging courier.

I never said that they are trying to exclude only me. They have done so for many more people on this board.

I simply don't have to prove to you that my docs were all original. And anyways it doesn't matter in the present context.

Have you read... CRE also has termed the immigration policies of UK govt as dearly beloved...the same beloved is playing its role in HO too.

There are many other ills at HO:
1) The red tape is at its peak.
2)The inefficieny is at its best.
3)The processes are at their worst.
4)Their consideration for customers is questionable.
5)Their responsibility levels are of lowest standards. They loose the original documents of thousands of people and they do not care and don't even think of changing their processes.
6)Highly unprofessional.


I think you need to come out of the ideal world and face some facts of life and accept reality. Would you have been convinved if the list had 60 points instead of the 6 mentioned above.

If the same had happened to you as is happening to so many people on this board...would you still be writing similar stories about deserving such a treatment???

DO I have to stand on my head to get a single letter back from the HO ??? Funny


Is the UK government so helpless that it needs 1 year to be able to send a single document to a customer??

[gordon]

I live in the real world, like everyone else, thanks very much, and I have three questions for you:
1. How do you expect all of this whining to advance your own case ?
2. Do you have any evidence that inefficiency/red tape/processes are generalised problems across the vast majority of cases ?
3. Once you have issued your vaguely maniacal indictments against the HO, what's the next step for everyone else once you've stirred them up in angry protest ?

I perfectly sympathise that you want to voice your frustration, but you've not been remotely constructive. Like most people, I've had my own problems with govt bureaucracies, and in multiple countries, incl. the UK, but I'm not, as a result, lost to all reason and proportion.

AG