Applying for EEA4 without EEA death certificate

[Hannan270]

Hi guys. Can anyone help me pls. I was non eea family member of eea national ( lithuanian ). I came to uk in SEP 2004 as a student. In November 2008 I got married with my lithunanian girl friend and I got 5 years visa in August 2009. We lived togather all that time till October 2013. She went back to lithunania and died there in November 2013 . I tried to get her death certificate but failed . I spoke to lithunania Embassy in London, they said I can't get my wife death certificate because my marriage was registered only in uk not in lithunania. My 5 years visa finished on 14th of August 2014. I applied for PR with all the evidence and document I had. Documents are
My Wife :
Bank statements ( end of 2008 till October 2013 )
T mobile bill. ( 2009 till October 2013 )
Tenancy agreement (2008 till 2012 on both of us name ) I lost few agreements. And last agreement 2014 to 2015 only on my name.
My wife junk post ( few letters )
Marriage certificate
Five years old marriage photograph and few more photo of us togather.
Her p60 for one year
Her tex return until 2013 ( self employed) . She used to earn very low income so she paid very less tex.
Her blue card ( came along with my 5 years resident document )+ her passport photocopy.
My Documents :
My passports
My bank statement from 2008 till 2014
My pays slips from 2008 till 2014
My t mobile bill from 2008 till 2014
My BT bill from 2008 till 2011
I stayed maximum 26 days outside the UK in whole period.
Guys please tell me that will they issue me PR. I m soo upset at the moment as I don't have my wife death certificate. Can anyone pls help for this matter. I heard that if u don't send ur EEA national Id or passport, then HO will refuse ur application.

[Obie]

You ought to have made an application under Regulation 15(1)(e) and not 15(1)(b).

Your wife died before your qualifying period, so you ought to have applied under 15(1)(e).

If UKBA finds out you may be liable to have your residence or Permanent Residence Card revoked.

[UKBA HUNTER]

No its not correct that where marriage should be done because UK marriage is valid anywhere. If that tragedy is true then as being family member you must get death certificate or anything alternative to it. It can never possible that a partner not be able to get that if that tragedy is true. I am telling in general but follow Obie advice.

[Hannan270]

Thanks for ur reply Obie. What do u suggest Obie. I had proof for five years ( July 2008 till October 2013 ). What is the best for me to do. I told HO in my cover letter that she has died November 2013.

[Obie]

At least you have been truthful in that regards.

However Home Office will want details in regards to her death certificate.

[Hannan270]

Thanks for ur quick reply sir. What would u say , I mean what shall I do now. I m trying to get from her family. But they giving me only photocopy not original.

[Hannan270]

Will my wife's other documents ( bank statements , t mobile bills. Tax returns ) and my all documents up till today ( payslips , bank statements , t mobile bill , tenancy agreement for both of us name on it ) not be enough. What can I do now

[Obie]

You cannot submit those document to UKBA. Those document are to demonstrate the presence in the UK, for someone who is among the living, and not for a dead person.

Supplying evidence of someone who is not amongst the living to UKBA as proof of residence in the UK, will cause more complication that help.

It will call into question all the other document that you supply, especially in the absence of a death certificate.

[Hannan270]

What about if I send them photocopy of death certificate

[Hannan270]

I have all sent all the document , the time we live togather till mid 2013

[Obie]

Government Department only accept Original documents.

I would have thought you are your wife's next of kin.

You should be able to get her original death certificate.

[Hannan270]

Obie thanks a lot for ur all replies. Pls tell me in case if they refuse my PR application , what's the next step I can take. Pls help me Sir.

[Obie]

You may be awarded a right of appeal if refused.

[Hannan270]

Ok Obie. Obie what do u think about my case. I mean u have seen all the documents I have sent to HO. What's the chances ?

[Obie]

What i know is, a woman died before her qualification period for PR, and you are now applying without a death certificate.

Well if i want to go by the law, you will not qualify as you did not provide a death certificate as required in the case of regulation 15(1)(e).

If your case happen to get in the hands of a caseworker who is not very knowledgeable, he or she may grant.

But i have to say, as things stand, a grant will not be in accordance with the law.

[Hannan270]

Thanks Obie for ur reply. I ll try to get death certificate ASAP

[Obie]

All the best. Prepare for the best hope for the worst.

[Obie]

Was your wife ill before she died.

It seems that she died shortly after she returned home.

Was there a medical condition for which she was being treated before she left for home to die, or was it a sudden death?

Answers to these question may need answers.

For the Self- employment you will need to show business account and accountant letter showing the business was viable.

[Hannan270]

She died with breast cancer. We were doubt it last year but she always say she fine. She does'nt like or believe doctor in UK.i forced her a lot to go to the doctor but she never listened. We had a lot of magazine n letters from breast cancer organizations showing what's the symptoms of breast cancer. Unfortunately when she went lithunania , she been told it's in very last stage. It's spread all over her body. It was kind of sudden death for me.
She was self employed for many years ( cleaner ).i manage to get a letter from her accountant. She was'nt use to earn a lot of money but she was payin something to HMRC.

[Obie]

All the best Hannan.

Self Employment has to be genuine and effective, and you may be required to demonstrate it.

[Hannan270]

Thanks Obie. Self employment is all genuine and match with HMRC Tex calculation. Thank you so much for your all reply.

[bluecole2]

This is a sad news, very sorry for your loss. May her soul rest in peace.
Try to be strong and positive.
Best wishes for the future

[Amber]

Thats so sad, especially to think with early treatment she may have been cured. A stark reminder to everyone to go straight to your GP if you are concerned/show symptoms.

I think an application under 15(1)(b) was ok, your 5 years completed in November 2013 your spouse was allowed 6 months absences per year, provided you supplied proof showing self-employment from marriage till October 2013 when she left the UK, insofar as the self-employment was genuine and effective, I don't see an issue. Again sorry for your loss.

[Obie]

Well i am not exactly sure how OP will qualify under Regulation 15(1)(B).


OP has tax return covering up to April 2013, his qualifying period is November 2013.

OP has tenancy agreement showing he last lived with his wife up to 2012.

OP's qualifying period is November 2013.

From April to November is 7 Months.

OP's claimed his wife died in November 2013, the month of their 5th Wedding anniversary.

For OP to qualify 2 hurdles will need to be overcome, and i cannot appreciate how those hurdles can be ignored.

Firstly he needs to provide the wife's death certificate, as he brought it up to the UKBA. As the husband, it will be logical that UKBA will expect that to be produced.

Continuity of residence applies to the living and not dead, and in any event, there need to be evidence that from the end of the tax year in April till November OP was exercising treaty rights.

From a person suffering from terminal cancer, it is logical that she will not have been able to perform her service for a period prior to her death, so evidence of her ill health will need to be produced, from the time she ceased activity.


Again i insist, that OP will need the death Certificate if his wife died before the 5th Anniversary of their marriage to qualify. If she did not, then the burden will be on him to prove it.

SO in light of the above point, it is hard to see how OP will qualify.

OP has already accepted that his wife died before his qualifying period, so it is Regulation 15(1)(E) and not (1B) that seems to be in play.

Continuity of residence cannot be applicable to the dead, it seem to be applicable to the living only, as it is expected they will return, but is cannot be expected that a dead person will return.

[one2three]

Sorry to hear about your loss

Now, I think you should/have applied for the retention of your rights before applying for PR.

You wife died before you completed 5 years as an EU family membe... Therefore you should have applied for retention of the visa first then if approved you could apply for PR.

Regards
Adeel