I'm giving up UK - What can I do to sue the government ?

[JulianaV]

It's a good country, good people, but David is a xenophobic jerk !

It's basically impossible for me (Im'm not Juliana, I'm the husband) to get a RC and NIN. I arrived here since march and nothing so far.

It's very crystal clear that EEA2 is the weak point of any family in this country. and the government is attacking with full intention. I't's easy: It's a good deal for the government ! You refuse the EEA2 and maybe a entire family must leave this country , right ?


1st NINo app: Refused. Reason - The HO don't know how to interpret a Stamp 1A and said that I failed to provide evidences that I can work in UK.
1st RC application: Refused. Reason: The UKBA just "forgot" to consider the pay slip and the work contract. They are cute, no ?
Oh ! and I received a letter telling that I need to left my pregnant wife and my 6 years old son behind and go back to my country ! In my application the "NHS pregnant card" was included !

2nd RC app: Under Process

2nd niNo: after 7 weeks (yes !! 7) I received a new letter telling that I need to go to a new interview with the very same documents of the 1st one to support the decision if I can get (or not) my NIN. Well, they have my COA ! It's a letter telling loud and clear IN BOLD that I'm able to work in UK. There is a signature and a reference number as well if someone wish to query how legit the document is. So, I'm not ASKING for my NINO, I'm claiming ! It's my right ! They don't have the right to decide ANYTHING...they just need to send me ! My solicitor said: The UKBA and the DPW are different entices and one don't support another and they are not on the same page and he said: It's by design. Everything has been drew in a way to make the things very difficulty for EEA Family members because they wanna see this kind off from UK. The 7 week was proposital - it means: a little bit after the deadline. to make a psychological terror in your mind.

And that's the point...actually I'm totally under depression, I back to smoke cigarette after 7 years, I can't sleep. I can say that UK won this war against me and I don't have strength anymore to continue because I'm totally destroyed inside.

I made a parody video few weeks ago : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HceL0d9iBp0 - this is what the government is doing with immigrants in a parody with a Brazilian rubbish.

I built the video for my blog because probably I will let this country , but I'd like to expose all the situation to the world because I wanna see the government in shame ! But this is not enough...

I'm really suffering, I'm totally destroyed inside, I've a pregnant woman and a 6 years old son and since I'm not working and I don't have a NIN to claim benefits I will need to left my family here because my wife can claim benefits if I'm not leaving with her (Benefits is about household hence I should have to have a NIN) and go back.

But I don't wanna just leave and let the government celebrate it. I noticed that sue UK inside UK is like complain against the CEO to the own CEO - So, the government and the justice is the same here. I need some advice and ideas about what I can do to sue UK outside UK...Brussels ? maybe and if someone know someone that's has been successfully doing such things. The point of true is...

1- I will need to left my family (not because the letter, but to make my family elective for benefits)
2- I back to smoke
3- I can't sleep
4- I'm totally in depression and feeling destroyed inside
5- For all the things above I can't be myself again and I'm facing difficulty to find a job because I'm not capable anymore to give a good impression. In fact I'm starting to be afraid of everything and I've afraid to answer my telephone when it's rings
6- With a job I could get my family and move to a better country, but I'm stucked

So, so many harm to me and my family and I need to make this country pay for this. Any suggestions ? Sorry for my outburst.

[dalebutt]

You need to calm really down, relax, this isn't worth loosing a single hair for, it is called bureaucratic, it happens everywhere, the UK justice system is independent of the government, it is a separate entity, if you choose a judicial recourse you can be assured of an impartial result.

Ignore the letter asking you to leave the country, as a family member of an EU citizen, refusal to issue a residence card is not substantive, if you believe the UKBA has made a glarring error in your applicatio , you should write to them pointing out the error and ask them to reconsider their decision. If your spouse is exercising treaty rights, you have a right to stay here regardless.

[UKBA HUNTER]

you should contact your local MP, citizen advice bureau and also try Your Europe Advice. I think on your first refusal because of their mistake then you should have complained about them and pinpointed their mistake and ask for quick issue of RC at that time instead of making new application and stand in long queue again. Do not be fed up, remember this country still better than many. your english seems of good level so try to go some voluntary career development agencies who can help you in preparing for job interviews and possibly find job for you.

[Starquality]

[quote="dalebutt"]You need to calm really down, relax, this isn't worth loosing a single hair for, it is called bureaucratic, it happens everywhere, the UK justice system is independent of the government, it is a separate entity"


Sorry, I am only a lurker, but IMO, in certain situations, it could be a ploy to delay , frustrate and sabotage applicants, than complex red tape. In my home country for example, I was told by a foreign embassy employer, that staff " pulled important document" then refused applicants for not submitting those documents. On this very board, I have read that some people were told they never submitted marriage certificates, when they claim they did.


To the OP, I am not experienced in dealing with your issues, hopefully the above poster and other experienced members can help.. don't give up.

God bless

[dalebutt]

You need to calm really down, relax, this isn't worth loosing a single hair for, it is called bureaucratic, it happens everywhere, the UK justice system is independent of the government, it is a separate entity"


Sorry, I am only a lurker, but IMO, in certain situations, it could be a ploy to delay , frustrate and sabotage applicants, than complex red tape. In my home country for example, I was told by a foreign embassy employer, that staff " pulled important document" then refused applicants for not submitting those documents. On this very board, I have read that some people were told they never submitted marriage certificates, when they claim they did.


To the OP, I am not experienced in dealing with your issues, hopefully the above poster and other experienced members can help.. don't
God bless

Your point being? Every government agencies in the world over indulges in a bit of complicated administrative procedure, it doesn't negate the fact that the judiciary in this country is completely independent of the government, we should be proud of that. What OP is experiencing and the scenario you described are not unexpected, sometimes, things aren't laid on a plate, you fight for it.

[rosebead]

Sorry about your troubles. I agree with you that these kinds of delays by these creaky government departments are unacceptable and are obstructive of your free movement rights. It is unbelievable the amount of incompetence and lack of proper staff training. Even if the bureaucracy across the world is the the same, although I suspect countries like Germany and Japan are maybe more efficient, it's still appalling whether it's here or there.

[Starquality]

You need to calm really down, relax, this isn't worth loosing a single hair for, it is called bureaucratic, it happens everywhere, the UK justice system is independent of the government, it is a separate entity"


Sorry, I am only a lurker, but IMO, in certain situations, it could be a ploy to delay , frustrate and sabotage applicants, than complex red tape. In my home country for example, I was told by a foreign embassy employer, that staff " pulled important document" then refused applicants for not submitting those documents. On this very board, I have read that some people were told they never submitted marriage certificates, when they claim they did.


To the OP, I am not experienced in dealing with your issues, hopefully the above poster and other experienced members can help.. don't
God bless

Your point being? Every government agencies in the world over indulges in a bit of complicated administrative procedure, it doesn't negate the fact that the judiciary in this country is completely independent of the government, we should be proud of that. What OP is experiencing and the scenario you described are not unexpected, sometimes, things aren't laid on a plate, you fight for it.

My point being intentionally "pulling documents" supplied by an applicant, consequently refusing an application, is unlawful... How do you fight fairly against for example, a corrupt official ? This might not be the case here, but it happens. This "over indulgence" causes unnecessary suffering. It is incumbent on government officials to uphold the law and treat applicants fairly. You are right, the administrative and Judiciary are distinct entities.. I agree, I also did not refute that in my previous post.. thanks..

[dalebutt]

Well you quoted my post to say exactly the same thing I was saying but in a different way, I thought you were trending the path of the OP who may have made the statement about the Judiciary out of ignorance.

Bureaucracy exist everywhere, what can anyone do about it? Abosuletely nothing, immigration departments in most countries adopt these measures to deter potential migrants, we cannot do anything about, and I am of the view that whilst you know you can do nothing about it, it is no point ranting about it, if one needs justice, the best cause is the judiciary as I have adviced the OP to do.

[JulianaV]

Sorry about your troubles. I agree with you that these kinds of delays by these creaky government departments are unacceptable and are obstructive of your free movement rights. It is unbelievable the amount of incompetence and lack of proper staff training. Even if the bureaucracy across the world is the the same, although I suspect countries like Germany and Japan are maybe more efficient, it's still appalling whether it's here or there.

Yes, that's why we are totally anxious to move to Germany. We really don't wanna live here anymore. It was our dream before step here. Now we are really disappointed.

My friends is telling me that I was in bad luck because this is because the current PM is a xenophobic man and if I was arrived in a different administration my history probably supposed to be very different. That sick bastard (it does not apply for me, but it's disgusting anyway !) created something 2 years ago that's disallow british people to get married with any non eea spouse/husband if the anual wage is less then 18.6/year. So, a British man goes to America (or vice versa), know the woman of his life, both fall in love...and then....then....then...then ????? Come on ! This is not human !

To all the others.... Yes, I agree that they are blocking me to exercising my rights, but I can't sue because they can arg everything as operational error and ask for apologizes, you know what I mean ? They have the right to "make mistakes" (consider the quotes !!)

In UK you are always allowed to complain, but 20 working days is necessary to a response.And the response may not be satisfactory.
In UK you can sue...but this means spend a good amount of money, wait months...and you are subject to lose as well.

And they know it...It's much more easy to give up instead stare the system and this is really causing me a illness and my family is paying the price. My mother told me that if necessary she is ready to sell the only asset she have to bring me and my family back. I'm just trying to find a way to make this government to pay for all the damages they are causing in me and to my entire family - And much more important: I don't wanna see other families under the same situation as well.

Ty for the support of everybody - And I loved the hint of the "Europe Advice". I will research about it and when I leave UK I will bring the letter from the HO telling me to leave the country and complain in the brussels court even if this will be expensive because I don't wanna see other families in jeopardise.

[dalebutt]

Your ignorance is astonishing, you will need a loads of extra patience, you will quickly need to learn German, because you are very much likely to be asked by a disgruntled Auslanderbehorde official, something along the line of " War machst du hier? You will need to answer that coherently. Good luck for the future.

[yoshi_jp]

I'm not a fan of any ragime in the UK, past or present, but based on my experience around Europe, the UK is by far the easiest place for someone like me, who looks entirely non-white.

If you move abroad, you shouldn't expect a red carpet in front of you. If the official fails to act accordingly, tell them why they are wrong and, if necessary, just officially complain. It's exactly the same everywhere in the so-called developped world, be it Tokyo or Washington. Just try dealing with the Japanese government. I bet you'll #### in your pants out of sheer rage.

If you move to Germany, you have to deal with cops asking for your ID frequently, and very stupidly frequently, if you look foreign. My brother in law drives his Polish-registered lorry regularly between Poland and the UK, and he is stopped on the motorway by cops EVERY D#MN TIME (for no obvious reason at all) because of the clear PL country designation on the number plates. My Nigerian friend was literally thrown out of train in Germany by cops and had his bags ransacked and everything thrown onto the floor without any reasons given, and he has always had a valid Swiss/Schengen residence permit. The best part of it? He was just told to s#d off in the middle of the night and his train had long gone.

I've had a fair share of ups and downs here, but I've never had such medieval absurdity anywhere in the UK.

I have to admit that the Home Office and most other government institutions are full of jaw-droppingly incompetent people, and it has got quite a bit worse over the last decade or so. They recently sacked a lot of immigration officers to cut the deficit, then, seeing the exponentially extending visa queues, realised that they needed more and hastely brought in many ham-fisted amateurs. If you can't deal with their level of incompetence, then you need to pray hard before dealing with any local council officials.

But, for heaven's sake, please don't slag off this country which I rather like. Dave might be a bit slimy and out of touch, but most other European "leaders" aren't much better or worse.

[UKBA HUNTER]

i think this thread is sailing from north to west, from south to east with no meaningful reply. Remember, UK is so far is the easiest and better country in Europe to live and settle if intelligent planning has been formulated backed by genuine/factual grounds/intentions because at the moment the authorities is looking everyone suspiciously because there are a lot of loopholes still left in European route. However, still the genuine couples always win but always initial challenges occurs which everyone in regardless of the country have to face inevitably. Remember always the gardens looks green from far but once go near to it then one can understand what is it actually?

[dalebutt]

i think this thread is sailing from north to west, from south to east with no meaningful reply. Remember, UK is so far is the easiest and better country in Europe to live and settle if intelligent planning has been formulated backed by genuine/factual grounds/intentions because at the moment the authorities is looking everyone suspiciously because there are a lot of loopholes still left in European route. However, still the genuine couples always win but always initial challenges occurs which everyone in regardless of the country have to face inevitably. Remember always the gardens looks green from far but once go near to it then one can understand what is it actually?

What a crude statement to make? as much as you are entitled to your opinion, that statement is rather foolish, every reply on the thread has addressed the issues the OP raised, it has never drifted west or south has you erroneously perceived, probably due to your lack of understanding.

[UKBA HUNTER]

i think this thread is sailing from north to west, from south to east with no meaningful reply. Remember, UK is so far is the easiest and better country in Europe to live and settle if intelligent planning has been formulated backed by genuine/factual grounds/intentions because at the moment the authorities is looking everyone suspiciously because there are a lot of loopholes still left in European route. However, still the genuine couples always win but always initial challenges occurs which everyone in regardless of the country have to face inevitably. Remember always the gardens looks green from far but once go near to it then one can understand what is it actually?

What a crude statement to make? as much as you are entitled to your opinion, that statement is rather foolish, every reply on the thread has addressed the issues the OP raised, it has never drifted west or south has you erroneously perceived, probably due to your lack of understanding.

I will appreciate your bravery in replying but must smile on your innocence that this section of forum is designed for immigration related queries especially the European ones although in several other threads unrelated issues can be raised and discussed. I do not think any other language than English has been used above which cannot be able to understand. If you are boring and want to spend time in writing then keep on but i do not have right now to reply you post by post. Best of luck regardless of the reply you write after reading this post

[dalebutt]

i think this thread is sailing from north to west, from south to east with no meaningful reply. Remember, UK is so far is the easiest and better country in Europe to live and settle if intelligent planning has been formulated backed by genuine/factual grounds/intentions because at the moment the authorities is looking everyone suspiciously because there are a lot of loopholes still left in European route. However, still the genuine couples always win but always initial challenges occurs which everyone in regardless of the country have to face inevitably. Remember always the gardens looks green from far but once go near to it then one can understand what is it actually?

What a crude statement to make? as much as you are entitled to your opinion, that statement is rather foolish, every reply on the thread has addressed the issues the OP raised, it has never drifted west or south has you erroneously perceived, probably due to your lack of understanding.

I will appreciate your bravery in replying but must smile on your innocence that this section of forum is designed for immigration related queries especially the European ones although in several other threads unrelated issues can be raised and discussed. I do not think any other language than English has been used above which cannot be able to understand. If you are boring and want to spend time in writing then keep on but i do not have right now to reply you post by post. Best of luck regardless of the reply you write after reading this post

It is no bravery, it is a balanced response to a rather foolish assertion from yourself, OP posted on the challenges he has faced obtaining a confirmation of his rights, and you think it isn't the right section of the forum to post that? every response that followed had tried to address the issues the OP raised, your post about "a Garden that looks Green from far", supposedly made more sense than the rest of the contributions? Your perceived understanding of English language is erroneous.

[Amber]

This thread is heading towards being locked.

[JulianaV]

Your ignorance is astonishing, you will need a loads of extra patience, you will quickly need to learn German, because you are very much likely to be asked by a disgruntled Auslanderbehorde official, something along the line of " War machst du hier? You will need to answer that coherently. Good luck for the future.

Nope...I don't need to learn German I'm a IT professional. We can be hired faster in any country without the need for the language. In fact if you are deaf and dumb and not capable to speak any single world in any language it's okay....since you can code in Java, C++, Objective C. a bit (really little bit) of German will be necessary for the residence title. And to be very honest I love the German language and will be a pleasure learn it - So that's a requirement that I will have a great pleasure to accomplish. In fact in my opinion UK supposed to adopt such thing because there is people living here for years and not capable to speak english. It's not respectful with the country.

My brother in law drives his Polish-registered lorry regularly between Poland and the UK, and he is stopped on the motorway by cops EVERY D#MN TIME (for no obvious reason at all) because of the clear PL country designation on the number plates.

I've had a fair share of ups and downs here, but I've never had such medieval absurdity anywhere in the UK.

But, for heaven's sake, please don't slag off this country which I rather like. Dave might be a bit slimy and out of touch, but most other European "leaders" aren't much better or worse.

Well, I don't think my family will have issues due the appearence. We are really white, I've green eyes, my wife is a Hungarian Standard as well. Buuut...I don't like the idea to see people being stopped according with the appearance. It's disgusting. However I never hear before ppl telling it. And there is some important thing: Live in Berlin is different of living in any other city. It's like London: Rarely you will find a real British guy.

And yes ! I never saw in UK someone being discriminated. You are right.

And as I told you..the problem is not your country, It's your government ! I just chased a bad year to move to UK.

i think this thread is sailing from north to west, from south to east with no meaningful reply. Remember, UK is so far is the easiest and better country in Europe to live and settle if intelligent planning has been formulated backed by genuine/factual grounds/intentions because at the moment the authorities is looking everyone suspiciously because there are a lot of loopholes still left in European route. However, still the genuine couples always win but always initial challenges occurs which everyone in regardless of the country have to face inevitably. Remember always the gardens looks green from far but once go near to it then one can understand what is it actually?

What a crude statement to make? as much as you are entitled to your opinion, that statement is rather foolish, every reply on the thread has addressed the issues the OP raised, it has never drifted west or south has you erroneously perceived, probably due to your lack of understanding.

I will appreciate your bravery in replying but must smile on your innocence that this section of forum is designed for immigration related queries especially the European ones although in several other threads unrelated issues can be raised and discussed. I do not think any other language than English has been used above which cannot be able to understand. If you are boring and want to spend time in writing then keep on but i do not have right now to reply you post by post. Best of luck regardless of the reply you write after reading this post

In my opinion..I could be wrong..but this thread is about immigration anyway. We are talking about how difficulty is to get a EEA2 RC, a NIN for EEA FM and if the government is creating barriers, what's people can do to strike back. I really hope that some day a family chief like me can be aided with the hints of the experts of this board. Anyway it's my fault expose more details then necessary.

So, assuming that the moderator is considering to lock this Thread...plz let's try to go back everybody to the same page. Forget my opinion about UK, about the officers, about the Germany... Let's try to follow the things in bold.

ty everybody ! anything off-topic I don't mind to reply by PM - My pleasure.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Your ignorance is astonishing, you will need a loads of extra patience, you will quickly need to learn German, because you are very much likely to be asked by a disgruntled Auslanderbehorde official, something along the line of " War machst du hier? You will need to answer that coherently. Good luck for the future.

Nope...I don't need to learn German I'm a IT professional. We can be hired faster in any country without the need for the language. In fact if you are deaf and dumb and not capable to speak any single world in any language it's okay....since you can code in Java, C++, Objective C. a bit (really little bit) of German will be necessary for the residence title.

As an EU citizen (or as the family of an EU citizen) you do not need to speak any Germany, nor do you need a "residence title".

But you will find that the more you speak of the local language, the more you will get out of being there.

Learn as quickly as you can and enjoy, even if it is not "required".

I loved living in Germany. My German is not even close to perfect, but it is functional. And super convenient!

[JulianaV]

Updates from my solicitor....

2014-08-29 13:04 GMT+01:00
Como vai, Carlos ?

Bon, eu apliquei há 7 semanas pro meu NIN e chegou a carta. Mas não com o NIN e sim com outra carta pedindo pra aparecer denovo no JCP para uma nova entrevista, com todos os documentos denovo...

Date: 2014-08-31 9:20 GMT+01:00
Subject: Re: NINO
To: "-----

O que está acontcendo é uma resistência em emitir NIN para quem recebeu o Certificate of Application. Este Governo deixou de ser sério há muito tempo.

Transating...

How are you, Carlos?

well, I applied for my NIN 7 weeks ago and got the letter. But not with NIN but with another letter asking me to appear again in JCP for a new interview with all documents again ...

The answer...

It'ss a resistance to issue NIN for those who received the Certificate of Application. This government is no longer seriously long time.

I made a response: So, regarding your experience...What I supposed to do ? In the end everything will be fine ? What's next ?

I will let everybody here informed. At least my suspicious regarding the government sounds very true since I never suggested to my solicitor that I have a suspect regarding the government.

[Casa]

JulianaV, what does your post have to do with this thread? Also. have you used Google translate? It doesn't appear to make much sense.

[rosebead]

I think Juliana's husband is saying that even though he has a COA now and not just a Code 1A, the DWP still requires him to re-submit all of the documents again that he had submitted for his first NINo application. I do think this is really inefficent, time-wasting, taxpayers-money-wasting bureaucracy - if the DWP had already seen his ID and other docs previously and had scanned them into their database which I know they do, what is the point of making him do that all over again as it only just slows things down? This may be how the unwieldy DWP works but at the same time it is delaying his right to work, which is his free movement right - you could argue that this is being obstructive of his free movement rights.

As regards the Home Office, it is well-known that it's their policy to refuse as many immigrants as possible, and even more so under the media-driven and UKIP-fuelled immigrant-bashing climate that we've been experiencing in the past few years. UKVI staff even get reward vouchers for refusing as many as they can. I know of several Surinder Singh EEA Family Permit refusals that were refused for illegal reasons, and one was just so out of order it made me gasp - this was a Surinder Singh refusal due to centre of life because the UK sponsor didn't have relatives or owned property in his host State! I do think things have been worse under the Tories - they are a particularly nasty bunch. You need only look at this headline to see - the Home Office is trying to deport a man with Down's Sydrome who has lived in the UK almost his entire life because his parents had died.

Let's not pretend the Home Office is nice or even fair a lot of times. I don't blame Juliana's husband for bashing them.

The best that you can do is complain to the European Commission and perhaps the UK''s Ombudsman. If you feel brave you can make a claim for a Judicial Review against the Home Office but you risk having to pay their legal expenses if you lose. Not much else you can do.

[xtrm83]

Your ignorance is astonishing, you will need a loads of extra patience, you will quickly need to learn German, because you are very much likely to be asked by a disgruntled Auslanderbehorde official, something along the line of " War machst du hier? You will need to answer that coherently. Good luck for the future.

Nope...I don't need to learn German I'm a IT professional. We can be hired faster in any country without the need for the language. In fact if you are deaf and dumb and not capable to speak any single world in any language it's okay....since you can code in Java, C++, Objective C. a bit (really little bit) of German will be necessary for the residence title. And to be very honest I love the German language and will be a pleasure learn it - So that's a requirement that I will have a great pleasure to accomplish. In fact in my opinion UK supposed to adopt such thing because there is people living here for years and not capable to speak english. It's not respectful with the country.

I can see now why you have been denied to live here in the UK.
If you don't like the country or the rules, you are more than welcome to go back to Brazil-
It seems that the bureocracy you talking about does not exist over there.
Honestly chap, you need to calm down and you need to be more polite and humble.

Good luck