Advice for British Citizen and Moroccan Wife - D2004/38EC

[DMasters]

Hello,

I am new to this site but have spent the last few weeks reading various blogs on the Directive 2004/38/EC and its conferred rights on EU citizens and their family members.

As stated in the subject line: I am a british citizen and my wife is a Moroccan citizen.

We are planning to travel to france next week under the directive.

From my understanding and interpretation me and my wife can freely travel to France under the directive. All that is required is a valid travel document (Passport) and documentation to verify the family link (Marriage certificate). No other document or formality is to be imposed or required on us. Is this correct?
I will be printing out the Directive itself highlighting key elements. We will take our marriage certificate and passports. Should we take any other documentation?

Can they refuse us?
I am also aware that carriers should not deny boarding of citizens protected under this directive? What view should we take on this? Will we have any issues?

I found some great information from the commission itself that provides a full break down of the directive in simplified english (They also have other transaltions) That quite clearly states that my rights within the EU directly confer to my spouse or family members. Whatever applies to me also applies to them. As a British citizen i can freely enter any EU member state and stay there for any period of time (subject to any registration requirements) This right directly transfers to my wife too.

My wife will only have her passport. No visa or permit.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,


Ps. We will be flying directly from Morocco to Toulouse (If this makes any difference?)

[Donutz]

Indeed but it's always best to get a visa in advance. Issued for free, as soon as possible (max 15 calendar days, if an appointment is required for an application it should be granted within 2 weeks). If you don't, expect a lot of hassle and possibly unlawful denial to board!

[DMasters]

Hello,

Thanks for the reply and confirming my first thoughts.

Out of interest, where would we stand in terms of legal proceedings should they deny boarding? I would of thought that a case could be brought against them considering that no company is "above the law". We will be flying thursday with Air France so timing is a little tight in terms of visa application. Coupled with the fact that they do charge for visas here, which of course is unlawful. For future note, how do you get round this?
I have some good documents directly from the European Commission that clearly states that the rights of a EU citizen are extended to their family members.
It has been ample time to implement the 2004 Directive, so it would be fairly suprising for it not to be well understood by now. (I think the policy has been implemented quite well across the EU as the directive is purely the Freedom of Movement that we all benefit from, but i think boarder control and carrier staff are unaware this extends to family members).
Where would we stand with damages? I also have a couple of business meetings in france so i wouldn't be too best pleased should i have to miss them.
I will be speaking to Air France today and will note their advice and post it here.

How long would we likely be able to stay for? Under the directive it states that EEA members have the right of stay on a member state for an inital period of 3 months without any formalities. If wishing to stay longer then a residence pemit is required. This is valid for 5 years if i am not mistaken?

What documents would you advise us to take?

Thanks once again,

[Donutz]

You would be suprised to know how many embassies, borderguards let alone airport staff seem unaware or unwilling of the directive. Not all memberstates apply the directive correctly or incooperate the directive correctly. The UK visa and immigration laws violate the directive on Freedom of Movement in several areas for instance. These cases are being dragged out in (EU) court and the EU commission but it's wheels turn slow, very slow.

I would advice to get papers that show you are family (marriage papers are required, if possible legalized and with an official translation in a language that the official can read), ofcourse your passports and a statement by you that you as a EU (UK) national are taking your spouse to join you for a short stay in an other EU/EEA country (France).

You can print the directive in several languages here, read the English text and print article 1-7 in French and English:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32004L0038

Article 2 and 3 show that the directive applies to you and your family. Article 5 covers right of entry. Article 6 covers short stay up to 3 months.

France, as part of Schengen, has a handbook "Operational instructions for the application of the Visa Code are further specified in the Handbook for the processing of visa applications and the modification of issued visas" for embassy staff that explains the rights of the directive further (borderguards should have a simular handbook I believe), you can find it here in PDF form:
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... dex_en.htm

A section ( III ) is dedicated to EU/EEA visas/entry. As you can see you should be granted every facility to get a free visa with minimum hassle. If this is no the case, complain to the embassy, possible it's ministry in the country that controls the embassy and the EU (Home affairs). You will also see that you should be granted entry at the border if your spouse has no visa. Sadly the tricky part would be getting to the EU border.

You may also wish to contact the EU's support forum, especially if you do find stubborn people. See info and contact details:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

If you meet difficulties, insist on them/you contact a (senior) border official who knows the rules. You will find stories on this forum of airliners denying boarding, and either asking a local border guard (lol) or calling to the EU state with a borderguard that does not know the rules and who says that indeed a visa is required. If you are still denied boarding, try to gather any evidence that you were in your right. Evidence that shows you and your wife were together and attempted to travel and access an EU memberstate other then your own and therefor were entitled to access.

I hope you succeed but jsut check out the stickied threads and you will see that your rights are not always respected and various parties involved do not know or refuse to know (or pretend) how to apply the directive correctly. THis forum has a load of topics covering failure of proper application of EU rights at embassies, borderguards, ministries, checkin staff etc. Quite shocking indeed, you wouldn't expect this to be the case 10 years down the lane!!

Personally I'd share my experience with EU Home Affairs regardless of the outcome. The embassy for instance is in error. One complaint or story may not make a difference but if sufficient feedback comes in then I believe in time the various parties involved will see to proper application of this directive.

PS: if traveling to France it's the easiest if you depart from the UK. Atleast you will be at it's border then and be able to confront the border staff. Same applies the other way around. People have been denied boarding at EU mainland airports heading to the UK (German or French citizens with non EU family for instance) but gained access to the UK at the border. So if this plan of yours fails (I hope not!) but your wife can come to the UK, enter France via Dover-Calais.

[ban.s]

Airlines are fined if a passenger is denied entry due to possession of incorrect visa / travel document. The airlines check-in staffs are not always qualified to verify the authencity of the foreign issued documents (marriage certificate, birth certificate etc) that form the basis of free movement. Passport and Visas (or national ID cards) are recognised travel documents. I am not sure if there is any EU regulation that mandates airlines to accept documents beyond standard travel documents. Offcourse the situation is different if you actually reach the border.

PS: if traveling to France it's the easiest if you depart from the UK. Atleast you will be at it's border then and be able to confront the border staff. Same applies the other way around. People have been denied boarding at EU mainland airports heading to the UK (German or French citizens with non EU family for instance) but gained access to the UK at the border. So if this plan of yours fails (I hope not!) but your wife can come to the UK, enter France via Dover-Calais.

Then a UK visa will also be required.

[DMasters]

Thanks for the replies and for providing indepth information and advice to our particular situation. It will prove most useful so thanks once again.

Hopefully all will go to plan and our rights will be respected.

I called the Europe Direct advice line and the agent on the phone informed me that we did indeed need a visa but i think she didn't quite get the question (After explaining to her what seemed 100 times that my wife was Moroccan she insisted that my wife was Iraqi??) Anyways, she stated that my wife could apply for a free schengen visa and it should be issued "very quickly". She did not seem to believe me when i stated that the french embassy in morocco charge for the visa and refuse to issue it for free.
It just goes to show that not even staff working in an advice centre for the EC know what to "advise" on.

I read through each and every document suggested including the Operational advice for border staff. It clearly states in there our rights under the directive. I would take this with me if it wasn't such a large document.

We will be taking the following documents:

*Passports
*Marriage certificate in both french and english (fully attested)
*Copy of the Directive itself in English
*Copy of the Directive itself in French
*A copy of the information document issued by the Commission itself explaining informally the rights granted under the directive.

This should be ample enough documentation for our rights to be noted.

Now i note that you stated to travel from the UK. We will be flying from Morocco itself direct to France. Do you think this would pose any extra issues?

What should we state to border staff if they ask anything in refference to our plans? Should we mention that we are looking to live in France? Or should we mention that we are there for a holiday?
What are the Do's and Don'ts in this respect? Are there any golden rules in what you shouldn't or should mention?

I will record the entire conversation so it is documented, even if just for personal use.

Is there anything else we should take note of?

Where does the directive leave us in terms of travelling between member states? (For example: France to Italy, Germany, etc.)

Thanks once again, much appreciated.

[youssef needs helf]

Hello Dmasters

I am in the same boat as you bro, my wife is from the Netherlands but i am a Moroccan citizen! sorry i cant help you with any advise as i'm struggling my self, i only want to say could you please keep us updated with how it goes for you and your wife! i would love to know how it goes so i could try the same thing if it does work!

good luck

[DMasters]

Hello Youssef.

Thanks for the message.

I will happily keep you updated on the whole process. I will provide a full transcript of any conversation that may or may not be had. I will also list each and every document we took along with various other documents/sites that would be of use (I found so many that it seemed silly to print 100s and 100s of pages of information that essentially all mean the same thing)

If there is anything you want advice on just ask and i will do my best to reply.

Thanks once again,

Ps. Just got ripped off by Air France on luggage fees, but hey! can't be too picky!

[youssef needs helf]

Thank you so much!

ill keep checking your posts bro best of luck!

[DMasters]

Hello All,

So today is the day of our travel, we will be arriving at the airport a few hours ahead of time just to ensure we have all in order.

Fingers crossed it will all go to plan and all should be in order. Either way i will let you know.

Wish us luck!

[youssef needs helf]

Hello bro how did you get on? any luck?? i hope that you made it and you and your wife are in france!

update please

thank you

[DMasters]

Hello bro how did you get on? any luck?? i hope that you made it and you and your wife are in france!

update please

thank you

Hey bro, not too sure how you got on?

Sorry it took so long to reply, we have been very busy since we left!

It all went smoothly, we was pulled to the side of the que at immigration on landing in France and we showed our documents and they were happy, they did however stamp her passport (which they aren't legally allowed to do) however we weren't going to complain about that, we was just happy that it all went to plan
However, the experience in France was another story, after getting my wallet stolen it was a big tough, we are now back in Morocco for a while and will be returning soon