girlfriend from peru, pregnant, can she stay in the UK?

[wildeep]

my girlfriend came to england last year to study for a master's degree. her visa expires in Dec 2007. She is pregnant, due to give birth in January.

We want to stay together in the UK. Does the pregnancy affect her rights to stay in the UK?

[Wanderer]

my girlfriend came to england last year to study for a master's degree. her visa expires in Dec 2007. She is pregnant, due to give birth in January.

We want to stay together in the UK. Does the pregnancy affect her rights to stay in the UK?

No, sorry.

The only chance is that after 7 months the airline may refuse to let her fly. but if I were you I wouldn't try to play the innocent here I'd get her home ASAP. Avoid any chance of an overstay and consequent immigration black mark which my make future visas a pain in the arse to get.

[wildeep]

i think it's ok for her to stay in the UK to give birth (i'm not with her at the moment, so i'll confirm this with her later).

My question was more about after the baby is born. Does she really have no rights to stay in the country? From looking at this website:
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... w=Standard

it seems like the baby will be a british citizen becuase I'm one and i'm the father. Does she have no rights to stay even though the baby does?

[Wanderer]

it seems like the baby will be a british citizen becuase I'm one and i'm the father. Does she have no rights to stay even though the baby does?

No mate, not purely cos she's the baby's mother. For her to stay she'll have to have valid EC in some form, like student visa, fiancee visa etc...

Also I'm not sure you baby is automatically a British citizen since ISTR that's conferred to legitimate children, I'll let others comment here, it's sunday morning and I don't fancy tackling British Nationality Act 1981 at the mo!

And I wouldn't be so sure she can stay to have the baby, I think she'll either have to leave before making it impossible for her to fly or apply formally for a visa extention (maybe form FLR(O)), the HO needs the money....

[Dawie]

Actually for children born after the 1 July 2006 there is no requirement for the child to be legitimate, so yes, the child will be a British citizen whether he is born in Peru or in the UK purely because his father is a British citizen at the time of his birth.

Interestingly, as far as I can see from the British nationality act, even if the child is born in the UK, it will be a British citizen by decent and not by birth if born illegitimately.

Unfortunately this does not help your girlfriend in any way. I suggest the two of you get married and she changes her visa status to that of a spouse. The easiest way to do this is for her to apply for a Certificate of Approval in order to allow her to marry in the UK and for the two of you to then get married. After your marriage you will then have to apply for a spouse visa for her at the Home Office.

Read this link:

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/applyi ... artnership

[JAJ]

Interestingly, as far as I can see from the British nationality act, even if the child is born in the UK, it will be a British citizen by decent and not by birth if born illegitimately.

It's not clear how you come to that conclusion.

[Dawie]

The British nationality act seems to only allow British citizenship by birth in the UK if the father is legally married to the mother at the time of the birth.

The recent changes in nationality law removing the need for the father to be legitimately married to the mother at the time of the childs birth if born after 1 July 2006 seem to only apply for British citizenship by decent.

It therefore seems to be the case that if the mother was to stay in the UK and have the child here while not being legally married to the father, the child would automatically be a British citizen by decent.

Or am I missing something?

[wildeep]

are there any other solutions apart from marriage?

[Wanderer]

are there any other solutions apart from marriage?

Another student visa? Might be difficult to attend tho with a baby so perhaps not a good idea especially as attendance is monitored.

Does she have any Spanish ancestry - might be a way through this that way via EU.

[JAJ]

The British nationality act seems to only allow British citizenship by birth in the UK if the father is legally married to the mother at the time of the birth.

The recent changes in nationality law removing the need for the father to be legitimately married to the mother at the time of the childs birth if born after 1 July 2006 seem to only apply for British citizenship by decent.

I don't know how you could come to that conclusion - the 2006 changes altered the definition of "father" in section 50 of the Act and hence it applies to all types of acquisition of British citizenship.

It also applies to British overseas territories citizenship.

[ball1333]

are there any other solutions apart from marriage?

You love her enough to get her pregnant and you want her to stay in the UK...but you don't love her enough to marry her? Whoa.

[SYH]

are there any other solutions apart from marriage?

You don't want to make an honest woman of her?

[limey]

Wilddeep: Can you clarify that you are a British citizen?

Also, do u have citizenship of any other European (EU) country?

[Dawie]

Wilddeep: Can you clarify that you are a British citizen?

Also, do u have citizenship of any other European (EU) country?

Please take the time to read the previous posts. The answers to your questions are already there.

[wildeep]

are there any other solutions apart from marriage?

You love her enough to get her pregnant and you want her to stay in the UK...but you don't love her enough to marry her? Whoa.

thanks for the judgement...very helpful when you know nothing about the situaiton... our relationship is extremely difficult but we want to give it a chance without committing to marriage.

[jimquk]

I think the point is that the Home Office would only consider an application for your girlfriend to remain based on a permanent relationship, basically marriage. If you find people here to be judgmental, that's nothing to what you will get from the Home Office. Their attitude, quite simply, is why don't you go and live together in Peru?

I think it's really important to be realistic about this. Hope you can work things out.

[SYH]

I think the point is that the Home Office would only consider an application for your girlfriend to remain based on a permanent relationship, basically marriage. If you find people here to be judgmental, that's nothing to what you will get from the Home Office. Their attitude, quite simply, is why don't you go and live together in Peru?

I think it's really important to be realistic about this. Hope you can work things out.

thanks for the judgement...very ... but we want to give it a chance without committing to marriage.

That just doesn't make sense if its so difficult, then why get pregnant.
But I would concur with jimguk, our judgment aside, the HO attitude is either you are married (legitimate in their eyes) or its not serious so feel free to depart with her.

[bani]

I hope you find other options outside marriage. But if not, if I were in your shoes, I would marry her anyway. I would be very clear that it's a last option, that I'm not really sure yet she's the person I want end up with, but it's a way to keep her and my child in the country until she has permanent residency (2 years). Maybe the marriage would work out, if not, at least you were both honest and realistic about it from the very beginning. I realise this is exactly the kind of marriage the Home Office discourages. But it would be too cruel to send a girl back to her Catholic country with a child and no husband. Maybe Peru is more liberal than I think, but I still couldn't do it.

[JAJ]

I hope you find other options outside marriage. But if not, if I were in your shoes, I would marry her anyway. I would be very clear that it's a last option, that I'm not really sure yet she's the person I want end up with, but it's a way to keep her and my child in the country until she has permanent residency (2 years). Maybe the marriage would work out, if not, at least you were both honest and realistic about it from the very beginning. I realise this is exactly the kind of marriage the Home Office discourages. But it would be too cruel to send a girl back to her Catholic country with a child and no husband. Maybe Peru is more liberal than I think, but I still couldn't do it.

Where a child of the relationship is a British citizen then it might be possible to make some kind of application based on humanitarian grounds (welfare of the child etc). Professional advice on this would be needed.

Bear in mind that if child is born in Peru, it will only be a British citizen (by descent) if father was born or naturalised in the United Kingdom. Also, where father is not married to the mother, it is very important that he is shown as "father" on all birth documentation.

It may be easier if child is born in the United Kingdom.

[wildeep]

That just doesn't make sense if its so difficult, then why get pregnant.

'Get pregnant' - Ever heard of unplanned pregnancy?

'If its so difficult' - Ever heard of relationships that were once straightforward but became complicated?!

i am very grateful to those who have offered practical responses to my situation. I am astounded that people feel they can add snide moral judgements when their information about the situation is based on a few sentences in an internet chat forum.

[SYH]

That just doesn't make sense if its so difficult, then why get pregnant.

'Get pregnant' - Ever heard of unplanned pregnancy?

'If its so difficult' - Ever heard of relationships that were once straightforward but became complicated?!

i am very grateful to those who have offered practical responses to my situation. I am astounded that people feel they can add snide moral judgements when their information about the situation is based on a few sentences in an internet chat forum.

Unplanned pregnancy with married couples, sure
If not married, ever heard of a condom?
If her parents were around, ever heard of shot gun wedding?

It isn't snide moral judgments, it is very practical and considered thoughts suggesting you act responsibly and deal with the consequences of your actions. So far no one has gotten snide but we can make an effort if you'd like to see the difference.

[Wanderer]

That just doesn't make sense if its so difficult, then why get pregnant.

'Get pregnant' - Ever heard of unplanned pregnancy?

'If its so difficult' - Ever heard of relationships that were once straightforward but became complicated?!

i am very grateful to those who have offered practical responses to my situation. I am astounded that people feel they can add snide moral judgements when their information about the situation is based on a few sentences in an internet chat forum.

Unplanned pregnancy with married couples, sure
If not married, ever heard of a condom?
If her parents were around, ever heard of shot gun wedding?

It isn't snide moral judgments, it is very practical and considered thoughts suggesting you act responsibly and deal with the consequences of your actions. So far no one has gotten snide but we can make an effort if you'd like to see the difference.

It's true we never know the full story but it's hard sometimes to answer the question without moralising, I think if this place was purely question and answer I think most of us would clear off. We've all developed our little personas here now with me and SYN being chief Grumpies.

[SYH]

It's true we never know the full story but it's hard sometimes to answer the question without moralising, I think if this place was purely question and answer I think most of us would clear off. We've all developed our little personas here now with me and SYN being chief Grumpies.

I just love you my cranky brother, Wanderer. Just making a point as you just did. Cheers

[Wanderer]

It's true we never know the full story but it's hard sometimes to answer the question without moralising, I think if this place was purely question and answer I think most of us would clear off. We've all developed our little personas here now with me and SYN being chief Grumpies.

I just love you my cranky brother, Wanderer. Just making a point as you just did. Cheers

I'm just answering ever post in a pathetic attempt to move off my lowly 'Sage' status onto 'Guru' level but 22:00 tonight....

Of course, you do realise that when I'm on guru and your still on sage I cannot acknowledge you until you too are on guru status. Like Indian caste system, maybe we could change the levels with Brahmin at the top. I can't remmeber the others, one of the Indian chaps told me what they were - he was second from bottom!

[SYH]

How many posts do you need to get to the next level?