Change in claiming Treaty Rights with no re-registration:

[RedMoon]

I am an EU citizen. I have registered my residence with the Home Office in 2007 without being asked for CSI. I believe I registered as a student but am not ultimately sure as I was also a worker then. But then after undergrad and 1 year postgrad (4 years in total) I have graduated and finished to be a student. In a meanwhile I have got a job ensurign claiming Treaty Rights continuously but via different routes. Now I am looking to apply for naturalisation as an employee.

I didn't re-register my residence card from being a student to being an employee. -Is this a problem when applying for naturalisation (without permanent residence card)?

Also, I have a gap of 3 months in employment when I was "only" a student.

Questions:

1) Is it the case that I would have a 50/50 chance (registering as a student vs not) of being asked for CSI for this 3 month period?

2) Is my understanding correct that claiming treaty rights for citizenship purposes will be counted five years after registration date and not 6 years back from naturalisation application date?

Thanks for your help.

[RedMoon]

any help anyone? big thanks in advance

[Obie]

You need 5 years Treaty rights to secure Permanent Residence .

According to UK Nationality law, you have to have a continuous residence of 1 year after you have secured PR, to qualify for naturalisation. This is where the 6 years come in.

It is 5 years continuous treaty rights and 1 year continuous residence after that.

If you are married to a UK citizen, then no need for the 1 year. You will be exempted.

I am in extreme doubt as to your treaty rights qualification.

you need to check under what circumstance your registration certificate was issued.

If you were a worker and provided evidence to the UK on that basis ,then you will not be considered a student and will not need a CSI.

It is so complex, that i will take ages working around it. SO it is best i stop here.

[sheraz7]

If you were student and acquired your registration certificate before June, 2011 on the basis of student then your application for permanent residence will not be solely refused that you did not hold the CSI by virtue of Annex B - CSI transitional measures. An EU national can excercise its treaty rights by more than one ways and can switch into different way anytime but during the period of WRS (2004-2011)the nationals of A8 countries were required to register their employment under that scheme in order to count their time as legal.

[RedMoon]

Big thanks for your input.

to follow up:

@sheraz7: you mean changing the way Treaty Rights are claimed during 5 year period without re-registration of residence and without informng HO is still good?

I registered under WRS scheme not so much for the treaty trights but because my employment would be illegal.

@Obie: so it means that everything hinges on whether I applied as a student or a worker:
if as a student I will qualify for CSI transitional measures that sheraz7 mentioned, if I applied as a worker then there is a gap in employment and then they would ask me for CSI if I want to cover it as a student?

How can I check how I registered because I've sent them an email long time ago to clarify that (before posting about it) and they didn't reply at all.

Also, I rung them and they were not able to tell me (at least that operator that I rung). (do they have a distinction how the person appliced on their files?).

Also, by: "Is my understanding correct that claiming treaty rights for citizenship purposes will be counted five years after registration date and not 6 years back from naturalisation application date?" I meant: I registered my residence back in 2007, Say I was to apply for naturalisation today. Is PR period (when I need to claim Treaty Rights) start: now minus 6 years or 2007-2012?

Big thanks for your help.

[RedMoon]

bump bump

[sheraz7]

As mentioned earlier that if you had received your EEA1 Registration Card before June,2011 on the basis of student but are doubtful about your worker status too due to not being registered with WRS scheme then why not you just stick to student only for that period and avail the concession for CSI requirement through transitional arrangements. Moreover, if you later on got registered with WRS scheme in order to legalized your worker status then rest of the period you can add to it for securing PR leading to British citizenship.

[RedMoon]

@sheraz7: So I take from what you have written that one can change the way Trety Rights are claimed (student between employed self employed and self-suffcient) without re-registering and the period of 5 years can consist of many sub-periods claimed differently.

I registered for WRS a year before I registered my residence as a student. They serve two different purposes I believe: WRS is to register your work with HO, residence to register your residence in the UK.

Sheraz: Problem is that I don't know whether I registered on the basis of being a student or worker.

Sorry for basic question but what is the best way to find out? The helpline number: 0845 010 5200 doesn't respond and they also didn't respond to my email I've written to them.

Also, by: "Is my understanding correct that claiming treaty rights for citizenship purposes will be counted five years after registration date and not 6 years back from naturalisation application date?" I meant: I registered my residence back in 2007, Say I was to apply for naturalisation today. Is PR period (when I need to claim Treaty Rights) start: now minus 6 years or 2007-2012?

[RedMoon]

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[RedMoon]

any help anyone?

[RedMoon]

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[RedMoon]

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[RedMoon]

please help if you can

[yoshi_jp]

It'll probably help if you present a clear timeline

My wife (Polish) came to the UK in 2007 and received her PR certificate in 2012. She was first a full-time worker, then a full-time student and a full-time worker at the same time (oh, dear...), then a job-seeker, unpaid trainee and a student concurrently, and finally just a student. She did the WRS registration and had also a registration certificate as a worker.

We basically cherry-picked whichever status that was legal under the Directive and stated that she had continuously exercised her treaty rights in the UK up until the time of the application for the PR certificate.

In your case, I suppose your registration certificate was obtained as a student. If that is indeed the case, then you can disregard the lack of medical insurance. Registration certificate is not mandatory, so you can ignore it unless you want to include your stay as a student into the continuous residence period and you did not have a medical insurance policy in your name.

[RedMoon]

Hi all,

@yoshi_jp: big thanks for sharing your wife's case, it looks like one of my questions is answered and different "modes" of claiming Treaty Rights can be interchanged without re-registering.

Putting a clear timeline would take 9 lines and would make this post very long (pls shout if you need it) as there was a lot going on so I will say that I received registration certificate 22 Jan 2007 and am not sure whether as a worker or as a student as I was both and can't recall as which I've applied. Obie says that it is crucial to know that and app costs around £900 so I'd better know that.

Then June 2010 - Sept 2010 I was only a student as I quit my part-time work to do my MSc dissertation. Sept 2010 to date I am employed.

So questions are:

1) How to check with UKBA whether I've applied as a student or a worker if phone doesn't respond and they do not answer emails? Does anyone have their new phone-number e.g?

2) Assuming a student: I note that in transitional arrangement it is written: "Transitional arrangements are being introduced, so that an application for permanent residence as a student will not be refused solely on the grounds that there is no evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance on the date of decision where: ..." -does this "as a student" mean then or at the point of application -I will not be a student but a worker when I will be applying.

3) Just reinstating the last one: Is my understanding correct that claiming treaty rights for citizenship purposes will be counted five years after registration date and not 6 years back from naturalisation application date?" I meant: I registered my residence back in 2007, Say I was to apply for naturalisation today. Is PR period (when I need to claim Treaty Rights) start: now minus 6 years or 2007-2012?

Big thanks for your help.

[RedMoon]

bump bump

[RedMoon]

any help anyone

[yoshi_jp]

The easiest way might actually be to bit the bullet and spend £55 (EEA3). After all, you were out of work for only three months and they may just fail to pick it up if you treat it as just a long and unpaid holiday.

Did you apply for any job during that period? If so, you can attach a printout of your email (or anything alike) and say that you were a job-seeker.

This may also be relevant:

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/amendme ... b-seeking/

Alternatively, you can just wait until SEP 2015 to comlete clearly the 5-year period of residence.

[RedMoon]

Thanks for reply.

To my understanding if I go down EEA3 route I will lock myself out from applying for a year from getting PR as from what I know one needs to hold PR for a year before being able to apply for naturalisation. And I believe it will go by the date of PR document granted regardless of what my registration card date + 5 years would indicate?

Also, for the reason above my clear 5 year PR period + 1 year of holding PR would be Sept 2016 and not 2015 -am I correct?

Therefore, if I can I would rather check with UKBA whether I registered as a student or a worker and go down the student route if I registered as a student. -But how to check it if they don't respond to emails and their helpline (0845 010 5200) doesn't answer? Does anyone know how to check it or what is their new number?

Please if somebody could have a look at questions 2) and 3) from my previous message that would be greatly appreciated.

[yoshi_jp]

To my understanding if I go down EEA3 route I will lock myself out from applying for a year from getting PR as from what I know one needs to hold PR for a year before being able to apply for naturalisation.

You acquire your PR status automatically after 5 years of exercising treaty rights. EEA3 is optional and it is merely to prove your automatic right of permanent residence. You need to exercise your treaty rights for 5 years and live here for additional 1 year before your naturalisation application regardless of whether you do the EEA3 thing or not.

And I believe it will go by the date of PR document granted regardless of what my registration card date + 5 years would indicate?

Not correct. It's easier to rely on the date printed on your PR document, but as I said you automatically get your PR status. If you want to go by this theoretical date of PR, you will just have to also submit a proof of this date, which is likely to be the same bundle that you used for your EEA3. But, you still need one extra year from that theoretical date.

Also, for the reason above my clear 5 year PR period + 1 year of holding PR would be Sept 2016 and not 2015 -am I correct?

Correct. But, you anyway have to spend 1 year without immigration time limit no matter what unless you are married to a British citizen.

In a complicated case like this, it isn't very wise to go without EEA3. Losing £55 is less damaging than £900+. EEA3 applications are handled reasonably quickly nowadays, and nationality applications without EEA3 PR takes quite a bit longer, so you really just save £55.

[RedMoon]

There are many reasons why I would like to apply right away (if I can) rather than add EEA3 step such as (among others): my professional referee might switch jobs and not be suitable + I would want to join Royal Marines Reserve (need to be British or Commonwealth and atm I'm only EU) and getting a bit old for that.

So if I can I'd rather contact them somehow, confirm whether I've applied as a student or worker and act accordingly (do EEA3 then if as a worker to speed the process up).

-But how to contact them if they don't respond to emails and their phoneline (0845 010 5200) doesn't answer either?

@ yoshi_jp: So from what you've written about EEA3 being optional, PR being automatic and the date of PR card not important this means that: (?)

a) if not broken by these 3 months gap my PR would have been acquired 2007 (date of registration) + 5 years 2012 and then a year on top = 2013 if broken then Sept 2010 + 5 years = Sept 2015 and then extra year to be able to apply for naturalisation -is that correct?

b) if not broken this would mean that I could apply for EEA3 and apply right away for naturalisation without waiting 12 month from the date on the PR card as I already done PR + 2 years actually?

Could you please explain what you meant by saying "you will just have to also submit a proof of this date":

And I believe it will go by the date of PR document granted regardless of what my registration card date + 5 years would indicate?

Not correct. It's easier to rely on the date printed on your PR document, but as I said you automatically get your PR status. If you want to go by this theoretical date of PR, you will just have to also submit a proof of this date, which is likely to be the same bundle that you used for your EEA3. But, you still need one extra year from that theoretical date.

[yoshi_jp]

> a) if not broken by these 3 months gap my PR would have been acquired 2007 (date of registration) + 5 years 2012 and then a year on top = 2013 if broken then Sept 2010 + 5 years = Sept 2015 and then extra year to be able to apply for naturalisation -is that correct?

Correct.

> b) if not broken this would mean that I could apply for EEA3 and apply right away for naturalisation without waiting 12 month from the date on the PR card as I already done PR + 2 years actually?

Correct.

> Could you please explain what you meant by saying "you will just have to also submit a proof of this date":

Imagine you will complete your 5-year period on 01/2015, your PR certificate is issued on 04/2015 and you want to apply for your british citizenship on 01/2016. You will probably have to prove again that you acquired your PR status on 01/2015, and not 04/2015, and that may be the same pile of supporting evidence for your EEA3 application.

[RedMoon]

Thanks for your reply. Everything re 5 year period and modes of claiming Treaty Rights is now clear (+ I assume from your answer that it takes around 3 months for EEA3 to be considered).

I'm down to the last two questions if pursuing checking-how-I-registered-route due to time constraints/pressures already mentioned. They got lost in the thread so repasting them:

1) How to check with UKBA whether I've applied as a student or a worker if phone doesn't respond and they do not answer emails? Does anyone have their new phone-number e.g?

2) Assuming I applied as a student: I note that in transitional arrangement it is written: "Transitional arrangements are being introduced, so that an application for permanent residence as a student will not be refused solely on the grounds that there is no evidence of comprehensive sickness insurance on the date of decision where: ..." -does this "as a student" mean then or at the point of application -I will not be a student but a worker when I will be applying.

Big thanks for your help.

[RedMoon]

Common folks, 2 questions left. Be kind it's Xmas.

[RedMoon]

Bump Happy New Year bump.