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New NHS Fees from 2015

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chaoclive
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Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:49 pm
Ireland

New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by chaoclive » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:53 pm

Hi all

I've heard that there are going to be new fees for use of the NHS from April 2015. Does anyone have a link to this?

As my partner is on the EEA route (still awaiting RC), I am very interested in whether or not I, as an Irish citizen working in the UK, will have to buy CSI for both myself and him. I have read somewhere (I can't find it now) that EEA citizens will not be able to pay the NHS levy (which was said to be 200GBP/year) and will, instead, have to have CSI. I'd be keen to find out more about this before the time so I can arrange for the required insurance (if necessary) so as not to affect his application for PR in the future.

Thanks a lot for any input you may have :)

Confused!
CC

el patron
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Location: Northern Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by el patron » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:12 pm

chaoclive wrote:Hi all

I've heard that there are going to be new fees for use of the NHS from April 2015. Does anyone have a link to this?

As my partner is on the EEA route (still awaiting RC), I am very interested in whether or not I, as an Irish citizen working in the UK, will have to buy CSI for both myself and him. I have read somewhere (I can't find it now) that EEA citizens will not be able to pay the NHS levy (which was said to be 200GBP/year) and will, instead, have to have CSI. I'd be keen to find out more about this before the time so I can arrange for the required insurance (if necessary) so as not to affect his application for PR in the future.

Thanks a lot for any input you may have :)

Confused!
CC
I think this was the story - I can't see how it can effect family members of EEA nationals.
http://beta.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23156403

I wouldn't panic as yet. Don't forget also that the NHS as a single entity does not exist, there are four separate heath services, one for each constituent country of the UK, which all have different interpretations of eligibility for receipt of services etc.

chaoclive
Diamond Member
Posts: 1599
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:49 pm
Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by chaoclive » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:23 pm

el patron wrote: I think this was the story - I can't see how it can effect family members of EEA nationals.
http://beta.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23156403

I wouldn't panic as yet. Don't forget also that the NHS as a single entity does not exist, there are four separate heath services, one for each constituent country of the UK, which all have different interpretations of eligibility for receipt of services etc.
Thanks el patron. I have seen something more up to date than this which hinted at the need for EU citizens to hold CSI. I'll keep digging and, if I get anything, I'll post it here.

Hope I misread something...

el patron
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Location: Northern Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by el patron » Fri Nov 14, 2014 2:31 pm

chaoclive wrote:
el patron wrote: I think this was the story - I can't see how it can effect family members of EEA nationals.
http://beta.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23156403

I wouldn't panic as yet. Don't forget also that the NHS as a single entity does not exist, there are four separate heath services, one for each constituent country of the UK, which all have different interpretations of eligibility for receipt of services etc.
Thanks el patron. I have seen something more up to date than this which hinted at the need for EU citizens to hold CSI. I'll keep digging and, if I get anything, I'll post it here.

Hope I misread something...

Yes, but you also need to look at access to NHS for Irish citizens and their ordinarily resident spouses, this gives NHS provision as a free standing entitlement without regard to EEA/EU status or regulations. You can check this by reading the relevant SIs etc on a country by country basis within the UK

dalebutt
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by dalebutt » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:54 pm

There can be no way in law for the UK government to restrict access to EU workers residing in the UK, it's not even worth delibration

chaoclive
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Posts: 1599
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Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by chaoclive » Sat Nov 15, 2014 12:34 am

dalebutt wrote:There can be no way in law for the UK government to restrict access to EU workers residing in the UK, it's not even worth delibration
Thanks for weighing in dalebutt. I'm not so worried about myself...more concerned about whether my partner will need CSI, not for the health care itself (we can pay for that if needs be); more worried about making sure that we are up to date on making sure that he can qualify for PR.

I guess we have to wait and see... I emailed Health and Social Care Northern Ireland and they said that they are still awaiting formal notification from the DHSSPS (Department of Health in NI).

dalebutt
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by dalebutt » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:14 am

The rights of an EEA worker in other member states and their family members are the same, any law that isn't applicable to an EU citizen is also not applicable to his/er family members.

Universal soldier
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by Universal soldier » Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:31 pm

chaoclive wrote:Hi all

I've heard that there are going to be new fees for use of the NHS from April 2015. Does anyone have a link to this?

As my partner is on the EEA route (still awaiting RC), I am very interested in whether or not I, as an Irish citizen working in the UK, will have to buy CSI for both myself and him. I have read somewhere (I can't find it now) that EEA citizens will not be able to pay the NHS levy (which was said to be 200GBP/year) and will, instead, have to have CSI. I'd be keen to find out more about this before the time so I can arrange for the required insurance (if necessary) so as not to affect his application for PR in the future.

Thanks a lot for any input you may have :)

Confused!
CC
I don't think its possible even if EU national working and paying NI contributions. Already the silly CSI requirement causing angriness so that is why its not possible. Only claiming benefits for EU national the government is making tough. Bring to our attention the link or source of that news.

chaoclive
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Posts: 1599
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:49 pm
Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by chaoclive » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:47 pm

Universal soldier wrote:
chaoclive wrote:Hi all

I've heard that there are going to be new fees for use of the NHS from April 2015. Does anyone have a link to this?

As my partner is on the EEA route (still awaiting RC), I am very interested in whether or not I, as an Irish citizen working in the UK, will have to buy CSI for both myself and him. I have read somewhere (I can't find it now) that EEA citizens will not be able to pay the NHS levy (which was said to be 200GBP/year) and will, instead, have to have CSI. I'd be keen to find out more about this before the time so I can arrange for the required insurance (if necessary) so as not to affect his application for PR in the future.

Thanks a lot for any input you may have :)

Confused!
CC
I don't think its possible even if EU national working and paying NI contributions. Already the silly CSI requirement causing angriness so that is why its not possible. Only claiming benefits for EU national the government is making tough. Bring to our attention the link or source of that news.
This is all I can find:
http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=83963.0
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... hase_3.PDF

I guess we just have to wait for the policy to be launched before we can be sure.

Universal soldier
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by Universal soldier » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:18 pm

I think this action might be undertaken to recover the nhs costs which EU/non-eu national fraudulently claim and used because it looks like a recovery program like bailiffs do. But thanks for sharing this guideline. Other forum think-tanks may put more light on it.

Petaltop
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by Petaltop » Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:59 am

The UK has come into line with other EU countries and have introduced a system to know which EU citizens must be charged. The same as when we are in other EU countries, when we don't work we use our EHICs from own country to pay or buy private insurance to pay our health bills.

In Britain, Irish citizens are special case and get free NHS if they aren't in work if they can prove they reside in Britain and haven't just arrived for any treatment they need.

All that has changed for EU citizens in the UK is that we will now have to show our EHICs if we are not in work and that includes any treatment in A & E, GPs surgeries, drop in centres, hospitals. For EU countries, the change will be that they will now receive bills from the UK for those showing their EHIC, just as they bill the UK. A shock for Poland and France perhaps as they have many of their citizens move to the UK and have rarely been billed by the UK before.


For non-EU citizens, the law changed in 2014 so that only those who Permanent Residency (UK citizen, ILR) will be able to use the NHS for free from 2015. The rest are to pay a tiny levy up front if they have a visa of more than 6 months and that NHS levy will allow them to use the NHS for free including A&E, but that levy will expire with their visa.
For those that don't have a valid NHS levy, they will be charged. They will be charged in A&E too because A & E will check and bill too and will not give treatment for free under this new law. A consultation at a GP will be free to all, but any treatment to be charged unless they have a valid NHS levy. The same for drop in centres.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28291276

http://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLUAsset ... grants.pdf

http://www.busybeeaupairs.com/nhs-intro ... t-workers/

obormot
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Location: Glasgow
France

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by obormot » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:44 pm

Where does it say in documents that EU citizens who work in UK (but do not have permanent residence yet) cwill still be able to use NHS for free?
The way they all put it is that you only can use NHS for free if you are UK citizen or PR. About EU citizens it says they will need to show their EHIC card. But I am, for example, French citizen, but I do not have french EHIC card and I am not covered by French medical system. I live and work in UK, I pay NHS tax, and I actually have UK EHIC card, which I recently used in France (!).
Non EU people on work visas in UK currently pay NHS tax, do not they? But in spite of that, they will not be entitled to NHS, right? Is there some statement which differentiates them from EU citizens?
I guess family members (dependents, EU or not EU) will be treated the same way as EU citizens. So the main question for me, is whether a EU worker (not on PR yet), paying in NHS tax, will be entitled to free usage of NHS or not?

chaoclive
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Posts: 1599
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Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by chaoclive » Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:22 pm

obormot wrote:Where does it say in documents that EU citizens who work in UK (but do not have permanent residence yet) cwill still be able to use NHS for free?
The way they all put it is that you only can use NHS for free if you are UK citizen or PR. About EU citizens it says they will need to show their EHIC card. But I am, for example, French citizen, but I do not have french EHIC card and I am not covered by French medical system. I live and work in UK, I pay NHS tax, and I actually have UK EHIC card, which I recently used in France (!).
Non EU people on work visas in UK currently pay NHS tax, do not they? But in spite of that, they will not be entitled to NHS, right? Is there some statement which differentiates them from EU citizens?
I guess family members (dependents, EU or not EU) will be treated the same way as EU citizens. So the main question for me, is whether a EU worker (not on PR yet), paying in NHS tax, will be entitled to free usage of NHS or not?

That's my issue too obormot. They mention EHIC. I'm Irish but I have never lived in Ireland and have never had an Irish EHIC. I have a UK EHIC. Our situation is the same as my family member is also non-EU.

Hop we can get some info about this soon.

el patron
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Posts: 335
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Location: Northern Ireland

Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by el patron » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:28 am

chaoclive wrote:
obormot wrote:Where does it say in documents that EU citizens who work in UK (but do not have permanent residence yet) cwill still be able to use NHS for free?
The way they all put it is that you only can use NHS for free if you are UK citizen or PR. About EU citizens it says they will need to show their EHIC card. But I am, for example, French citizen, but I do not have french EHIC card and I am not covered by French medical system. I live and work in UK, I pay NHS tax, and I actually have UK EHIC card, which I recently used in France (!).
Non EU people on work visas in UK currently pay NHS tax, do not they? But in spite of that, they will not be entitled to NHS, right? Is there some statement which differentiates them from EU citizens?
I guess family members (dependents, EU or not EU) will be treated the same way as EU citizens. So the main question for me, is whether a EU worker (not on PR yet), paying in NHS tax, will be entitled to free usage of NHS or not?

That's my issue too obormot. They mention EHIC. I'm Irish but I have never lived in Ireland and have never had an Irish EHIC. I have a UK EHIC. Our situation is the same as my family member is also non-EU.

Hop we can get some info about this soon.
Remember the UK Irish are not alien.

obormot
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by obormot » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:31 am

Here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... hase_3.PDF
on page 18 they talk about recovering cost of treatment from EEA patients who are "non-resident in the UK"
It also talks about changing definition of "ordinary resident" for non-EEA citizens, for NHS purpose, to be those who are "not subject to immigration control" (i.e., have indefinite leave to remain). But EEA members (and dependents) are not subject to immigration control, even if they do not have PR, but are on 5-years EEA1/EEA2 status.
Here it is (p. 68):
"The Immigration Act 2014 changes the meaning of OR in respect of non-EEA nationals subject to immigration control will not be able to be classed as ordinarily resident unless they have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, i.e. they are also a permanent resident of the UK. The new definition is expected to commence in early 2015/16."
On page 33 (p. 146/147) they also seem to distinguish between EEA-migrants and non EEA-migrants.

Here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... tation.pdf
They say (page 25, p.104)
"We need to improve the system so that we are better at identifying those EEA nationals who are not ordinarily resident in the UK and who do not have other rights of equal access to our healthcare system (such as workers and their family members)."

So it looks like a EEA nationals who are residents in UK (for example, who works here) are not affected, even if they were here for less then 5 years.

Still, I find this new regulation shocking (with respect to temporary migrants, not visitors). In particular, typical temporary worker pays NHS contributions from income, and some of them are highly paid and contribute a lot. And they still want to exclude them? In that case any common sense would dedicate that they should not pay NHS tax!

usaroi
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by usaroi » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:28 pm

I am concerned about this as well. I have Irish passport but have never lived there -- so no EHIC. Thing is I lived in UK for some twenty years on ILR (now lost) so still have NHS number from then and have never had any trouble from doctors. Will they start cracking down on this and demand I take out this "sickness" coverage?

el patron
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by el patron » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:15 pm

Irish nationals are automatically classed as 'settled' on arrival in the UK. Obtaining or maintaining ILR is of no relevance to an Irish national in the UK.

Obie
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Re: New NHS Fees from 2015

Post by Obie » Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:01 pm

The surcharge has no impact on EEA national and their families as things stand.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

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