Issue with Citizenship

[riyazcalsoft]

Hi All,

I am in problem in my life. I have about to receive British Citizenship. Only ceremony is remaining.

However we have now decided to adopt a child from India. It is very difficult ,time consuming and expensive to adopt a child from India with British passport (OIC/PIO). Hence there is dilemma to accept/reject british Citizenship.

If I accept Citizenship as mentioned earlier we are going to have issues with adoption.

If I do not accept Citizenship, I will have to go to India and live there for a year then apply for adoption process which can again take up to year. That means I will be out of UK more more than 2 years which put my ILR at risk.

I am bit confused at this time and need some guidance.

1. What happens if I take Citizenship but do not disclose it in India for say two/three years and then submit my passport on return?

2. What happens if I do not take Citizenship and live outside for more than two years for adoption and then apply for ILE? Will this be granted?
I understand I can make short visits to UK within this two year period but reading various forums, it is not advisable.

Please provide your inputs

[vinny]

Do you have a particular child in mind?

2. There may be problems.

[riyazcalsoft]

No, I don't have particular child in mind.

[Ginza]

Just come to UK once in a while (say every 6 months) and you should be fine.. So dont worry about ILR

I see the only problem is that you will accumulate a lot of abcenses so this may delay your next BC application.. But who cares.. If you plan to live in the UK, ILR and BC are the same from the practical point of view...

Do what you need to do. BC is Just a status.. It will take care of you when you are old... if you know what I mean...

[secret.simon]

@Ginza, ILR and BC are not necessarily similar. You can lose ILR if you have been absent from the UK for more than 2 years. It is a leave that can be revoked by the ECO at the airport if he thinks that, within reason, you are not living in the UK on a permanent basis.
BC, on the other hand, is a permanent change in status and is much harder to revoke.
I would recommend to the OP to complete the ceremony and then start the adoption process. This forum has quite a few posts on children being born to naturalised British citizens abroad and the travails that they have gone through. Adoption, from the view point of immigration, is not dissimilar to the birth of a child and the posts on these topics should inform the OP's journey.
It is difficult, but given that you have gone through so many hurdles to get where you are, I believe it would be unwise to give up at the last step.

[riyazcalsoft]

Thanks Guys. Does anyone know if Indian authority knows change in Citizenship, if you don't surrender passport?

Also if required I can visit UK every two months for short visits, would that be still issue to maintain ILR?

[Wanderer]

Thanks Guys. Does anyone know if Indian authority knows change in Citizenship, if you don't surrender passport?

Also if required I can visit UK every two months for short visits, would that be still issue to maintain ILR?

Pretty sure a visit is not enough - need to 'establish a presence'.....

[ouflak1]

Thanks Guys. Does anyone know if Indian authority knows change in Citizenship, if you don't surrender passport?

There is no agreement between countries that requires or invites any of them to share citizenship data. It is public information, but that's it. In theory, India might not ever know. But if you get caught with a foreign passport or some other clear evidence that you have attained foreign citizenship, there could be some big fines and you could be deported from India.

Also if required I can visit UK every two months for short visits, would that be still issue to maintain ILR?

They would pick up on that pretty quick. If you were doing exactly 6 months in and 6 months out, both countries might accept this. It really is a bit descretionary.

[ban.s]

In addition to the adoption rules in India, you may wish to consider whether you'd able to bring the child to the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/child-adoption/adopt ... m-overseas

If you attend the citizenship ceremony but don't disclose it to Indian authorities and continue to use Indian passport then they may not realise until the validity of the current passport. Indian passport holders with ILR status for more than a year are usually required to submit of proof of non acquisition of British citizenship during passport renewal.

[riyazcalsoft]

Thanks everyone for your response. Although taking BC is mouth watering, I think I will leave it for now! I will move to India and do adoption. Will try to apply for ILE later providing adoption as reason, If successful will return back to UK.

Such is the life!

[vinny]

What would you do if there is an issue with ILR/ILE?

[Ginza]

Thanks everyone for your response. Although taking BC is mouth watering, I think I will leave it for now! I will move to India and do adoption. Will try to apply for ILE later providing adoption as reason, If successful will return back to UK.

Such is the life!

Look, as you mentioned, you need to be away slightly more than 2 years to finish the adoption. Go away for a few months, then come back for some period. One time should no be a problem. After that you will have up to 2 years to stay in India. Overall this will give you the required time outside of UK. Finish your business and return within 2 years after your last (and only) visit to UK. This way you will get your child and will not need to apply for ILE to come back - just go with your current ILR.

Then continue your life in the UK with your child, wait until you meet again the residency requirements and apply for BC...

My 2p...

[riyazcalsoft]

Thanks Ginza. It looks most sensible approach with current situation. If I am admitted, after a intial year gap and then I leave UK that gives me total three years which should be sufficient.

I believe when I come back finally and if I have job offer then they should consider me as I am returning to settle permanently.

[secret.simon]

You are talking of current immigration law. In immigration law terms, three years is an eternity and they will almost certainly have tightened either ILR or citizenship requirements by then.

The EU announced just a few days ago that the UK has the highest number of new citizens in the EU in 2012, only 5% of which were already EU citizens (i.e. 95% of new UK citizens are from outside the EU). We are in an election year in the UK and given the importance being given to immigration in the electoral debates, almost certainly any incoming government will start by tightening the rules.

I'd say that you are taking a gamble, the odds of which are staked against you. If all that you need to do is a citizenship ceremony, I would suggest doing it and then applying for OCI, which should give you most rights of an Indian citizen in Indian law.

[riyazcalsoft]

Thanks Simon. Note that adoption a child from Indian with OCI/PIO is nightmare. First of all total cost is GBP20,000 for inter country adoption. Secondly waiting period is 2-3 years!

While adoption with Indians residing in India is much easier, it cost only 40,000 Rs which is just GBP 400!!! waiting time is around a year!

That's why I was asking a question will Indian authority will know change in Citizenship.

With current sitution whatever option I take has risk - 1. move to India on ILR - risk of ILR being revoked 2. Take a citizenship but do not submit Indian passport - risk of being deported from India !

[secret.simon]

Or of course, you could go for option 3; pay the differential. Given that you have probably paid a fair bit to get to the citizenship stage in the UK, I would suggest that you factor that in as a part of the cost of citizenship and accept it.

I would declare the British citizenship to the Indian authorities and kick the adoption process. I feel your pain about the length of time it takes with Indian bureaucratic procedures. However, I suggest that in the long term, if there were foreseeable issues later with your journey to British citizenship, you will kick yourself.

All the above is advice. I don't and can't live your life and it is for you and your significant other (I am making the presumption that there is one) to take the decision. I would just counsel you to consider the long term future and set that against the cost of £20000 and waiting for 2-3 years and the paperwork.

[haiksuresh]

Why can't you become a Citizen, and your spouse stay in ILR. In that case she will be treated as an indian. And based on your wife's status, you can adopt in india. Once everything is over, she can join with you as a dependent or returning resident.

If my suggestion was not correct, Please let me know the reason.

[riyazcalsoft]

Hi haiksuresh
If either husband or wife has OCI/PIO status then that couple is considered as OCI for adoption purpose. Hence they get very low priority in adoption and have to follow inter country procedure.

[riyazcalsoft]

Hi Guys,

Another thought - main reason to live in India for a year is to show residence in other words payslips and p60..

What if I work for Indian IT company which pays me Indian salary and puts me at client side at UK. They can pay me daily allowance in the UK.

Do you thinks this may be good option to save ILR?

[Wanderer]

Hi Guys,

Another thought - main reason to live in India for a year is to show residence in other words payslips and p60..

What if I work for Indian IT company which pays me Indian salary and puts me at client side at UK. They can pay me daily allowance in the UK.

Do you thinks this may be good option to save ILR?

If you work in UK you must pay UK taxes, that's a fundamental tenet I'm afraid. Whilst it won't be an immigration issue for you, it will be a very onerous taxation issue.

[riyazcalsoft]

Well, I heard most of the Indian software companies send people on daily allowance to the UK while they are paid salary in India ?

[secret.simon]

It is certainly a plausible solution to the issue of keeping your Indian citizenship and ILR alive. That way, you can be resident for tax purposes in India, while being actually resident in the UK, thus keeping your ILR alive.

You will certainly need expert tax advice in both the UK and in India. Be aware that you will not build up NI contributions in the UK during that period.

[Wanderer]

Well, I heard most of the Indian software companies send people on daily allowance to the UK while they are paid salary in India ?

They do and they are wrong to do it.

[riyazcalsoft]

How can that be wrong? Most of people have worked in this way..they do not have any immigration or tax issue!

[ban.s]

Well, I heard most of the Indian software companies send people on daily allowance to the UK while they are paid salary in India ?

They do and they are wrong to do it.

Staffs from these companies are usually in UK on Tier 2 ICT visa and their salary structures are determined by specific arrangements complying with ICT terms and agreements with HMRC.
This is not applicable to non ICT staffs.