EEA & British dual citizen, settling non-EEA partner in UK?

[PoleCat]

Hello,

I have been searching the Internet for hints as to how achieve the goal from the subject; this forum has provided me with lots of useful information. I could not, however, easily find an identical case and would like to ask the advice of the knowledgable members.


The story

Me
- Polish citizen exercising treaty rights since 2005.
- Naturalised British citizen in 2014 (passport not applied for).
- Currently divorcing a soon-to-be-ex wife, expecting decree absolute before end of March 2015 (if things go well).
- No children.

Partner
- Indian citizen.
- Currently holding a general visitor visa expiring March 2015.
- Pregnant, due August 2015.

Us
- In a relationship since May 2014.
- Not having lived together.
- Having been meeting in India and UK.

Aims
1. For my partner to stay in UK during the latter half of her pregnancy and have our child born here.
2. To live together as a family in UK afterwards.


Ways considered and questions

A) VAF4A for my partner to join me as a fiancée of UK citizen
- Financial requirement: I am steadily employed with good earnings.
- Language requirement: my partner has a BSc degree taught in English.
- Genuine relationship: we have emails, chats, travel itineraries, pictures documenting a romantic relationship since May 2014. We are also expecting a child together.

Question: Can this visa be granted before I receive my decree absolute? I can prove that my divorce proceedings are ongoing presenting letters from the solicitor; I hope for a decree nisi before the end of January 2015.


B) VAF5 for my partner to join me as a wife of an EEA national
- After I have my decree absolute, we can get married in a country where marrying a non-EEA citizen is not much hassle (Denmark seems promising)

Question: Will there be no problem with EEA family permit because I am also a British citizen?
Question: Can VAF5 be submitted from outside my partner's home country? We wish to avoid her being there in the latter half of pregnancy; it would be ideal if following our marriage she could apply whilst still inside Schengen and then join me in UK.



Being in this less-than-ideal situation (happy but surprised expecting parents, divorce not yet final), I will of course be extremely grateful for all information that can help us achieve our goal. If an identical story has been discussed here before, I will appreciate any links!

[physicskate]

Ways considered and questions

A) VAF4A for my partner to join me as a fiancée of UK citizen
- Financial requirement: I am steadily employed with good earnings.
- Language requirement: my partner has a BSc degree taught in English.
- Genuine relationship: we have emails, chats, travel itineraries, pictures documenting a romantic relationship since May 2014. We are also expecting a child together.

Fine. From country of residence, ie India.

Question: Can this visa be granted before I receive my decree absolute? I can prove that my divorce proceedings are ongoing presenting letters from the solicitor; I hope for a decree nisi before the end of January 2015.
Answer: Nope. You must be free to marry on your date of application.

B) VAF5 for my partner to join me as a wife of an EEA national
- After I have my decree absolute, we can get married in a country where marrying a non-EEA citizen is not much hassle (Denmark seems promising)

Question: Will there be no problem with EEA family permit because I am also a British citizen?
Answer: You won't be allowed to do this as you are no longer seen as exercising your treaty rights... You will need to apply under UK Immigration rules.
Question: Can VAF5 be submitted from outside my partner's home country? We wish to avoid her being there in the latter half of pregnancy; it would be ideal if following our marriage she could apply whilst still inside Schengen and then join me in UK.

Your other alternative is the Surinder Singh route; this will involve moving to another EU country (or probably Poland) and making it your 'centre of life.' You could then move back to the UK and your spouse would be subject to EU immigration rules. This route will probably involve living in the other country for 6 - 12 months min.

[PoleCat]

Ways considered and questions

A) VAF4A for my partner to join me as a fiancée of UK citizen
- Financial requirement: I am steadily employed with good earnings.
- Language requirement: my partner has a BSc degree taught in English.
- Genuine relationship: we have emails, chats, travel itineraries, pictures documenting a romantic relationship since May 2014. We are also expecting a child together.

Fine. From country of residence, ie India.

Question: Can this visa be granted before I receive my decree absolute? I can prove that my divorce proceedings are ongoing presenting letters from the solicitor; I hope for a decree nisi before the end of January 2015.

Answer: Nope. You must be free to marry on your date of application.

Damnation. I found this and got my hopes high; do you mean that practically there is no chance of the application being accepted?

SET1.17 What if the divorce / dissolution process is not yet finalised?
An entry clearance should not be refused for this reason alone. The ECO would normally expect to see evidence that the divorce / dissolution proceedings are well under way.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -finalised

Your other alternative is the Surinder Singh route; this will involve moving to another EU country (or probably Poland) and making it your 'centre of life.' You could then move back to the UK and your spouse would be subject to EU immigration rules. This route will probably involve living in the other country for 6 - 12 months min.

I think it requires getting my partner a >6 month Schengen visa - might be a major undertaking as well... But I will research.

[PoleCat]

Hi,

A question if the following plan is also feasible: wait for decree absolute, marry abroad, partner enters UK on a visitor visa, while in UK apply for FLR*? Is that possible?

Thanks to anyone who knows!


*I am mightily confused as to what would be the correct route to take and if it will result in FLR(M) or FLR(FP).

[physicskate]

Hi,

A question if the following plan is also feasible: wait for decree absolute, marry abroad, partner enters UK on a visitor visa, while in UK apply for FLR*? Is that possible?

Thanks to anyone who knows!


*I am mightily confused as to what would be the correct route to take and if it will result in FLR(M) or FLR(FP).

That has not been allowed since 2001. No - you cannot enter on a visitor visa and then switch to any other.

Once you are divorced, apply for a fiancé visa.

[PoleCat]

Once you are divorced, apply for a fiancé visa.

Applying for the fiancée visa is the plan. Do you know of any document that states that such application is pointless until decree absolute? The only thing I found so far is the optimistically sounding SET1.17 quoted earlier; with that in mind we intend to apply as soon as we have all the other documents, because with the baby on the way we need that visa ASAP.

[janebrew21]

i have been married to my french husband for 3yrs and we have lived in the UK for 3yrs and now we have a baby son i am on an EEA spouse visa i want to travel with my son i wanted to know if he qualifies for a British passport if he doesn't want visa can i apply for him thanks

[janebrew21]

i have been married to my french husband for 3yrs and we have lived in the UK for 3yrs and now we have a baby son i am on an EEA spouse visa i want to travel with my son i wanted to know if he qualifies for a British passport if he doesn't want visa can i apply for him thanks

[PoleCat]

We are about to give the fiancée visa a shot. I have a question about the language requirement.

Appendix FM-SE

31. Evidence of an academic qualification (recognised by UK NARIC to be equivalent to the standard of a Bachelor's or Master's degree or PhD in the UK) and was taught in English must be either:
(a) A certificate issued by the relevant institution confirming the award of the academic qualification showing:
(i) the applicant's name;
(ii) the title of award;
(iii) the date of award;
(iv) the name of the awarding institution; and,
(v) that the qualification was taught in English

My partner has:
1) Her BSc diploma,
2) Her transcript,
3) A "To whom it may concern" on letterhead from the head of department she graduated from, saying: "Ms Heregoes Hername has completed her BSc course in Her Field in the year 200X. The medium of instruction in our university is English".

1) and 2) are in English, but do not say explicitly that the course was taught in English.

Is that enough to satisfy the language requirement or should she just pass a suitable test?

[physicskate]

Once you are divorced, apply for a fiancé visa.

Applying for the fiancée visa is the plan. Do you know of any document that states that such application is pointless until decree absolute? The only thing I found so far is the optimistically sounding SET1.17 quoted earlier; with that in mind we intend to apply as soon as we have all the other documents, because with the baby on the way we need that visa ASAP.

When is your divorce due to be finalised? The concern may be that you will not be free to marry before the expiry of a fiancé visa...

[PoleCat]

When is your divorce due to be finalised? The concern may be that you will not be free to marry before the expiry of a fiancé visa...

I expect decree nisi in a few weeks. The divorce is amicable and there is nothing to suggest it will suffer any unreasonable delays.

I plan to supply the court notification of proceedings (dated October) and a series of emails from the solicitor showing that the procedure is underway (last one from 8 January saying that the wait for the decision on decree nisi might take up to 4 weeks).
If I have decree nisi before submitting the appendix and documents (2-3 weeks from now), we will of course add it to the documents bundle.

[PoleCat]

Hello again.

Apologies if a new thread should have been created instead of resurrecting this one, as I now have a more general question.

We are about to marry (in Europe) and my soon-to-be-wife will be then applying for a spouse visa (from India).

Will the following be enough for the language requirement?

She has a bachelor's degree from an Indian university, taught in English. Evidence:
- Degree certificate
- Transcript confirming that the instruction medium was English
- Letter from the university confirming the degree, its date and that it was taught in English
- Printout from the points calculator showing 10 points for English with her degree in points-based system

We have NO letter from NARIC.

Since most of the cases analysed here seem to meet the English requirement with a test rather than a degree, I will be grateful for your opinions!

[secret.simon]

I think that a NARIC letter is a good investment in this case.

Is the degree listed in the PBS calculator? If it is and the calculator gives 30 points for the degree and 10 points for the English requirements, a printout of the PBS calculator may be acceptable as proof rather than a NARIC letter.

For the PBS Calculator, choose Tier 2 > General, even though that is not the basis of your visa. It is only to generate the degree & language validation

[PoleCat]

I think that a NARIC letter is a good investment in this case.

Is the degree listed in the PBS calculator? If it is and the calculator gives 30 points for the degree and 10 points for the English requirements, a printout of the PBS calculator may be acceptable as proof rather than a NARIC letter.

For the PBS Calculator, choose Tier 2 > General, even though that is not the basis of your visa. It is only to generate the degree & language validation

Thanks a lot for your answer.

The degree is listed and gets 10 points for English in the PBS calculator. I cannot see a way there for any points to be granted for the degree itself on Tier2 > General, though.

Are you aware of any cases of people being refused for not supplying the NARIC letter?

Appendix FM-SE does not list a NARIC letter as required. Also, the refusal templates say nothing about a NARIC letter when the degree requirement is not met ("Not obtained an academic qualification equal to a Bachelor’s degree in UK, with that
qualification taught/ researched in English")

[secret.simon]

The degree is listed and gets 10 points for English in the PBS calculator. I cannot see a way there for any points to be granted for the degree itself on Tier2 > General, though.

I believe in this case that it means that the Home Office does not recognise the degree as being the equivalent of a British bachelors degree and hence that submitting only that as a proof of English requirements will fail. In such a case, I would definitely suggest getting a NARIC letter to go with the application.

I would also suggest that the applicant also do an ESOL/other approved English test as a backup.

[PoleCat]

The degree is listed and gets 10 points for English in the PBS calculator. I cannot see a way there for any points to be granted for the degree itself on Tier2 > General, though.

I believe in this case that it means that the Home Office does not recognise the degree as being the equivalent of a British bachelors degree

Apologies for not being clear. I meant that it seems there is no way to get 30 points for any degree when selecting Tier 2 in PBS calculator - the points can be only awarded for Sponsorship, Salary, English skills (up to 10 available) and Maintenance.
The degree in question is listed and gets 10 English skills points.

[secret.simon]

The degree is listed and gets 10 points for English in the PBS calculator. I cannot see a way there for any points to be granted for the degree itself on Tier2 > General, though.

I believe in this case that it means that the Home Office does not recognise the degree as being the equivalent of a British bachelors degree

Apologies for not being clear. I meant that it seems there is no way to get 30 points for any degree when selecting Tier 2 in PBS calculator - the points can be only awarded for Sponsorship, Salary, English skills (up to 10 available) and Maintenance.
The degree in question is listed and gets 10 English skills points.

It is I who should apologise. The PBS calculator has changed significantly since when I used it (over two years ago) and there is no section for the qualification any more.

I presume that as it recognises the degree and awards it 10 points for the English language requirement, that, along with the university letter and transcript should be sufficient.

If it helps any, I had done the same through my various applications, though I also had a NARIC letter and IELTS test results as a backup, just in case. I don't do things by half measures

[PoleCat]

Next question - maternity treatment received on visitor visa.

Our daughter was born here while my partner was in UK on a tourist visa. We are aware that visitors would normally pay for NHS services and she made repeated enquiries to get either an invoice or a confirmation that she does not owe anything. The email exchange has so far lead to neither.

If there is a bill, she will of course pay. Otherwise we plan to say No to the "Did you have to pay for the treatment?" question, explain in Additional Information section and attach the aforementioned email exchange.

Is there anything else we can do so this does not become an issue?

[PoleCat]

Update - we now have a confirmation by email from NHS that there is nothing to pay and, so she will attach it to the application and we will keep our fingers crossed.

One more issue though - staying long on visitor visa.

My partner planned to visit me for a few days in April and got that tourist visa - but once she arrived, we changed the plan and she ended up staying 5 months. There was no overstay, work or public funds. She will explain the lengthy visit in the spouse visa application. Is there anything we should consider doing to avoid ECO nitpicking over it?

[PoleCat]

Hi,

While any thoughts about the previous question would be appreciated, I have a short one about how to fill in the employment section in Appendix A.
I have been in the same job and earning >18600 for a few years, but got a raise a couple of months ago. Here's what we put:

3.3 From the list below, please indicate the main method of meeting the financial requirement.

[X] - Complete Part 3A
Category A [X]
Category B [ ]


3.12 Has your sponsor been in employment with the same employer and earning the amount, as detailed in 3.11 above continuously for 6 months prior to the date of the application? (Category A)

No [X] - because the amount changed in the last 6 months


3.13 Has your sponsor had other salaried employment, in the UK, in the 12 months prior to the date of application? (Category B) Put a cross (x) in the relevant box

No [X] - because there was no other job, just a raise in the only job


3.22 If your sponsor has not been employed by the same employer for 6 months prior to the application does their total income (before tax) from salaried employment received in the 12 months prior to your application meet or exceed the financial requirement you must meet

I wrote N/A, because I have been employed by the same employer for >6 months prior to the application.


Is the above correct?

[PoleCat]

Since the application is now paid for and the documents will be submitted on Tuesday, if anyone has any comments on the last few questions, I would greatly appreciate those! There is still a couple of days left for us to make corrections...

[PoleCat]

NHS strikes again - advice needed...

My wife received the following in an email:

I am satisfied you choose to have your child in the UK and that your labour therefore was not the result of an emergency. As such you are required to provide:
Evidence that you have paid the NHS fees for the child you had in the UK whilst on a visit visa or evidence that you had your child privately at your own costs.

You can send these documents at NewDelhi.VisaEvidentialFlexibilityReply@fco.gov.uk OR by fax on 24192524. Please provide us these documents on or before 02/12/2015 quote yur name, date of birth and above file reference number XXXXXX. If we do not receive these documents before the above said deadline, we will take a decision on the documents available.

Yours sincerely,
Visa Support Officer
Correspondence Unit
UK Visas and Immigration
South and South East Asia Region

I mentioned the NHS issue here and here. In short, no one ever asked us to pay despite our repeated verbal enquires at the GP and the hospital. We persisted in asking and finally got an email confirmation from the local NHS trust that she owes nothing.

Is there anything we can do now other than summarise the events and reattach the email from NHS, also restating that if she is billed after all, the bill will be paid straight away?

All advice much appreciated!

[PoleCat]

Boom

On Friday our application was still "in progress" following a period of "delayed for further checks".

Yesterday the local NHS trust emailed my wife what can be summarised as: "We know we told you you owed us nothing, but guess what, now we want a tidy sum. Stay tuned for an invoice".

She immediately sent an email to UKVI address mentioned in the previous post saying that NHS now changed its mind and will bill her, and that she would be paying straight away, meanwhile pretty please don't make a decision yet.

Today an invoice arrived in an email and was paid immediately by online banking. My wife emailed UKVI again, sending a copy of the invoice together with a bank transfer confirmation.

Once we have the receipt from NHS she will email them that as well.


So, it looks like in our case the delay was due to UKVI having a friendly little chat with NHS. I hope they will now make a decision - any guesses on what would that be?

[PoleCat]

Decision email arrived today. Now the wait for the courier...

[PoleCat]

VISA granted