Daul Nationality SA/UK

[Siggi]

Question for the South Africans on this board.

Does one have to apply to the SA Home Affairs for permission to hold daul nationality?

From the SA Home Affairs web site, it seems that all you are now required to do, is enter and depart on your SA paasport!
or
Have I miss some thing?

[Dawie]

Siggi, I went through all of this with the South African embassy when I became a British citizen.

You have to apply for retention of your South African citizenship which is explained on the South African embassy's website. This is quite straightforward and can be done by post without having to go personally to the embassy. It took 2 weeks to do for me. You have obtain a letter from the British Nationality division stating that you are not currently a British citizen.

This is all in addition to the requirement for dual citizens to enter and leave South Africa on their South African passports.

[Siggi]

Dawie
Thanks for the reply.On the same subject my daughter(age 3) was born in the UK and is still SA doI need to apply for retention of her SA citizenship too?

[Dawie]

According to the embassy's website:

Persons under the age of 18 years do not need to apply for retention of their South African Citizenship, as they will not loose their citizenship whilst still minors.

So no, but she will have to apply for retention once she reaches 18 or she will lose her SA citizenship.

[Siggi]

Dawie
Sorry for asking a silly question, I have just read that bit about a person under the age of 18years on the SA web site.

[Dawie]

Also remember that only South Africans who aquire another citizenship by naturalisation (also referred to by the authorities as by application) are required to apply for retention.

South Africans who are also citizens of another country by decent or by birth automatically never have to apply for retention as they never aquired that citizenship by application. So any future children you have in the UK would not have to apply for retention because they would have automatically been British citizens by birth.

[Siggi]

Oh so in my instance, where I now will acquire my BC via decent-passed on from my Mother . I don't need to apply for permission for retention???

[Dawie]

The wording is:

Clients 18 years and older who intend applying for foreign citizenship, but who do not want to lose their South African Citizenship must first apply for retention of South African Citizenship. Failure to do this will result in the client losing his South African citizenship when he/she acquires foreign citizenship.

Are you registering for British citizenship under the new rules that allow British mothers to pass their citizenship on to children who born outside of the UK? If so then you would need to apply for retention because you were not a British citizen when you were born.

I would guess that the South African government does not make a distinction, as the British do, between registration as a British citizen and naturalisation as a British citizen. The wording of the South African citizenship act refers to any voluntary application for foreign citizenship. Therefore if you have to make any sort of application to aquire this citizenship you have to apply for retention BEFORE. If you had automatically aquired this citizenship when you were born then you wouldn't have to.

[Christophe]

Dawie is right, and you need to be careful here if retaining your SA citizenship is important to you (and my guess is that it is). As he says, if you are going to register as a British citizen on the basis of your British mother, then that would count as applying for citizenship. (If, on the other hand, you were born in 1983 or later to a British mother and you were, on that basis, a British citizen from birth and you were now, say, merely applying for a British passport that you are entitled to as a British citizen, that would be different.)

[Siggi]

Thank's guy's, I see this as a bit of a grey area, as my BC is my birth right.
I will be registering as BC, but my case is a little out of the ordinary in that I was born in 1959 and had to fight the HO for my BC via my Mother.
Long story.
So to be safe I suppose I should just apply, not that I want too.

[Christophe]

... my case is a little out of the ordinary in that I was born in 1959 and had to fight the HO for my BC via my Mother.
Long story.
So to be safe I suppose I should just apply, not that I want too.

Yes, it would seem sensible to apply to SA House to retain your citizenship: easier to do that than to be arguing the toss later.

Do you mind me asking how/why the Home Office is prepared to entertain your claim to citizenship via your mother if you were born in 1959? (Just curiosity on my part...)

[Fairtrade]

Don't know if you all know but the Southern African Developing Community (SADC) is planning on bringing in a single visa (uni-visa) similar to the schengen visa in europe for tourists wanting to visit any of the 14 countries in southern africa including the island of Mauritius.

A South African passport would allow you to travel visa free within the Southern African region. It would also mean that if you don't have a South African or a (Southern AFRICAN country passport) and travel on a British/ EU/ US etc passport you would need to pay for a uni-visa.



Just thought I would let you know.

http://www.sagoodnews.co.za/countdown/451310.htm

allafrica.com/stories/200707250547.html

www.peaceparks.org/news.php?mid=611&pid=15 - 18k

www.sa2010.gov.za/news/070730sadc_tourism.php

www.retosa.co.za

[Dawie]

Don't know if you all know but the Southern African Developing Community (SADC) is planning on bringing in a single visa (uni-visa) similar to the schengen visa in europe for tourists wanting to visit any of the 14 countries in southern africa including the island of Mauritius.

A South African passport would allow you to travel visa free within the Southern African region. It would also mean that if you don't have a South African or a (Southern AFRICAN country passport) and travel on a British/ EU/ US etc passport you would need to pay for a uni-visa.



Just thought I would let you know.


allafrica.com/stories/200707250547.html

www.peaceparks.org/news.php?mid=611&pid=15 - 18k

www.sa2010.gov.za/news/070730sadc_tourism.php

Not having a Southern African passport would not necessarily mean that you would need a univisa because, like the Schengen system, there would be a list of common countries that would not require a visa at all and there would also be a list of common countries that would always be required to apply for a univisa. I can almost guarantee you that British/EU/USA and most Western countries citizens would be visa-exempt. Southern African countries would not want to do anything that might jeopardise their tourism industries which imposing visa-requirements would almost certainly do.

Furthermore, it would make little difference to South African passport holders as South Africans can travel visa-free to most Southern African countries anyway.

[Fairtrade]

"The univisa was originally intended to only be available, initially, to visitors from selected “source marketsâ€

[Dawie]

Regardless of what other SADC countries do, I don't see South Africa implementing any sort of visa requirement for British citizens. It's the one bit of leverage the South African government has against Britain implementing visa requirements for South African citizens.

[Fairtrade]

Dawie: "Regardless of what other SADC countries do, I don't see South Africa implementing any sort of visa requirement for British citizens."


South Africa is part of the 14 other SADC countries just like the Spain is part of the Schengen countries, it is not for South Africa to decide who gets to travel visa free, it is the SADC countries that decide, at the moment they including South Africa want everybody from outside the SADC region to apply for a univisa for the SADC countries (and everybody in the world includes Brits)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_%28document%29

[bbdivo]

Dawie: "Regardless of what other SADC countries do, I don't see South Africa implementing any sort of visa requirement for British citizens."


South Africa is part of the 14 other SADC countries just like the Spain is part of the Schengen countries, it is not for South Africa to decide who gets to travel visa free, it is the SADC countries that decide, at the moment they including South Africa want everybody from outside the SADC region to apply for a univisa for the SADC countries (and everybody in the world includes Brits)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_%28document%29

I think you will find that South Africa has a lot to say about who gets to travel visa free in its borders. Don't forget the UK is an EU country however Shengen visas are not valid here. It's the same principle at the end of the day.

[neil4u]

Hi

I am British by decent (Father) and South African by birth (Dual British/SA). I am going to be appling for a new SA passport soon. On the South Africa House website it says you have to provide the following:

A letter from the British Home Office confirming that you have not acquired British Citizenship. The letter should not be more than four- (4) months old.
The purpose of this letter is to confirm/verify that you have not acquired UK Citizenship.

This is fine if you don't have British Citizenship, but for me I can't see how the Home Office are going to say I have not aquired British citzenship when I have always been a British Citizen. Does anyone know if I will have to provide this letter, and if yes does anyone know where I can get a template of a letter to send to the Home Office?

Regards
Neil

[JAJ]

According to the embassy's website:

Persons under the age of 18 years do not need to apply for retention of their South African Citizenship, as they will not loose their citizenship whilst still minors.

So no, but she will have to apply for retention once she reaches 18 or she will lose her SA citizenship.

I see no evidence that she will need to apply for retention once she reaches age 18. At that point she will already have acquired British citizenship.

However, South African children can lose their citizenship if the (South African) parent loses citizenship.

[Dawie]

Dawie: "Regardless of what other SADC countries do, I don't see South Africa implementing any sort of visa requirement for British citizens."


South Africa is part of the 14 other SADC countries just like the Spain is part of the Schengen countries, it is not for South Africa to decide who gets to travel visa free, it is the SADC countries that decide, at the moment they including South Africa want everybody from outside the SADC region to apply for a univisa for the SADC countries (and everybody in the world includes Brits)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_%28document%29

Unlike the Schengen countries however, South Africa's GDP is more than that of all the other SADC countries combined. I think you'll find that South Africa calls the shots with whatever happens in SADC. In fact, South Africa is SADC and nothing happens without the South African government's say-so. I'm not saying I either agree or disagree with that, but that is the reality.

This univisa idea has been mooted for ages and it has never happened and probably never will. Despite the rhetoric about African unity and solidarity, a lot of party leaders in the ruling ANC party would find the idea of letting other less-successful African countries determine who can and cannot cross South Africa's borders to be a bitter pill to swallow.

[Dawie]

Hi

I am British by decent (Father) and South African by birth (Dual British/SA). I am going to be appling for a new SA passport soon. On the South Africa House website it says you have to provide the following:

A letter from the British Home Office confirming that you have not acquired British Citizenship. The letter should not be more than four- (4) months old.
The purpose of this letter is to confirm/verify that you have not acquired UK Citizenship.

This is fine if you don't have British Citizenship, but for me I can't see how the Home Office are going to say I have not aquired British citzenship when I have always been a British Citizen. Does anyone know if I will have to provide this letter, and if yes does anyone know where I can get a template of a letter to send to the Home Office?

Regards
Neil

Neil, you did not "aquire" British citizenship, you were automatically British when you were born so the rules regarding retention of your South African citizenship do not apply to you. They would only apply if you obtained your British citizenship by a voluntary act of application such as naturalisation.