Staying longer than 12 months

[goober]

Greetings all

I've noticed that to become a British citizen or permanent resident you need to have resided in the UK for about 5 years.

When looking at various working permits for the UK, 12 months seems to be the maximum you can stay. My question is, how can you stay in the UK for 5 years without citizenship or permanent residency or even family over there?

Many thanks for your assistance
Goober

[Wanderer]

Greetings all

I've noticed that to become a British citizen or permanent resident you need to have resided in the UK for about 5 years.

When looking at various working permits for the UK, 12 months seems to be the maximum you can stay. My question is, how can you stay in the UK for 5 years without citizenship or permanent residency or even family over there?

Many thanks for your assistance
Goober

You can get WP for five years, HSMP or student visa.

[magsi23]

Greetings all

I've noticed that to become a British citizen or permanent resident you need to have resided in the UK for about 5 years.

When looking at various working permits for the UK, 12 months seems to be the maximum you can stay. My question is, how can you stay in the UK for 5 years without citizenship or permanent residency or even family over there?

Many thanks for your assistance
Goober

Information you have is wrong mate, Infact ive hardly seen Work Permit for 12 months its mostly and usualy issued for 5 years

[goober]

Thanks for that info guys.

Is it possible to get a WP as a tradesmen (plumber) or do they only accept people with degrees?

Many thanks
Goober

[Administrator]

.

More information from you, Mr. goober, could help to answer faster & more completely.

What country are you coming from? &, which country are you a national of?

Are you alone or bringing a family?

How old are you?

How much experience do you have? In what specialties?

Do you have any degree(s) or certification(s)?


If you are coming in from the EU, it's quite easy. It seems you're from the U.S. or Australia or Canada ..? That's more difficult.


To naturalize as a UK citizen, there are also ancestry options. Any parents or grandparents who were/are Brits? Or perhaps even Irish or other EU citizens ..?

It may be easier to naturalize as one of those nationals and then use your EU rights to travel to the UK.


You need five years continuous residency in the UK to become eligible for naturalization. You can also obtain an ILR (Indefinite Leave to Remain) right to permanent residency.


You don't have to have a university degree, but generally (maybe 90% or more cases) it is critical.

There are skills shortages identified by the government. If you have extensive experience, sometimes you can leverage that as a professional and get a work permit.

The twelve month permits are usually for short-term contracts and are unusual because of the expense & trouble to hire a non-EU national for such a short time.

Even if you have a 12 or 24 month contract & work permit, it can be renewed ... so long as you establish continuous legal residency in the UK for 5 yours, you'll be eligible.

So, for one example, you could work for 18 months, switch to a student visa for 36 months, graduate from a UK university & work another 6 months and you'd have met your five years.

You cannot leave the UK and travel extensively during that five years. If you are out of country for too long (like, more than 6 months, with no one absence of over 90 days .. other folks, plz help; I forget the exact times for the UK), then you will not be considered to have met the five years of legal residency.


So, you can see your question is not entirely clear-cut. Please be descriptive. Also, the search function for this board could likely turn up other people who have been in a similar situation. the answers may already have been posted with appropriate links for assistance, guidance & forms.

the Admin

[goober]

Thanks for replying Admin, here are the answers.

What country are you coming from? &, which country are you a national of? Australia

Are you alone or bringing a family? Alone

How old are you? 27

How much experience do you have? In what specialties? Experience that would count, probably nothing.

Do you have any degree(s) or certification(s)? No. I am looking at heading over in a few years and am weighing up whether or not to further my education to enhance my chances.



To naturalize as a UK citizen, there are also ancestry options. Any parents or grandparents who were/are Brits? Or perhaps even Irish or other EU citizens ..? I had great grandparents born in England and Ireland but from there down we are all Aussie.


I'm slowly working my way through other posts gathering information but thought I would ask some questions as well.

Thanks for the help!

Edit - If I had distant relatives that stayed behind when the rest of the family moved to Australia, can they be considered or does it have to be parents or grandparents only?

Cheers

[darksquid]

Thanks for replying Admin, here are the answers.

What country are you coming from? &, which country are you a national of? Australia

There's been so much press here recently about how desperate Australia is for plumbers and how they're actively trying to encourage foreign plumbers INTO Australia. Just today, one of my co-workers was saying he was considering training to be a plumber and moving to Australia, as apparently they get paid far far better there.

So the question is....why aren't you happy working in Oz as plumber?! We've been led to believe it's the land of milk and honey for tradesmen!

[goober]

Not a plumber yet sorry. I have been given the chance to start an apprenticeship in plumbing but before I accept I needed to know whether that can help in any way in getting to the UK.

The apprenticeship is 4 years and so are most degrees so at the moment it's a toss up on which way I go. Going from posts on this forum, everything points to a degree.

Here's a link for your co-worker about plumbers in Oz at the moment.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22 ... public_rss

Cheers
Goober

[VictoriaS]

You might want to try for the Working Holidaymaker visa, which is a two year visa which entitles you to work for 50 per cent of the time (part time for the duration or full time for 1 year). This doesn't lead to residency, but would give you an idea of whether or not you like it here.

Coming to study is a possible option, but you would have to argue that you can't do the course in your home country.

Take a look at www.ukvisas.gov.uk and www.workingintheuk.gov.uk to see all the options.


Victoria

[avjones]

You might want to try for the Working Holidaymaker visa, which is a two year visa which entitles you to work for 50 per cent of the time (part time for the duration or full time for 1 year).

Victoria, I think you are wrong here. You can't work for more than a year in total, whether that is part-time or full-time. The relevant part of the Immigration Rules states:

(vi) is intending only to take employment incidental to a holiday, and not to engage in business, or to provide services as a professional sports person, and in any event not to work for more than 12 months during his stay

There is a relevant case which clarifies this aspect, AK (WHM – maximum 12 months work) Bangladesh [2007] UKAIT 00064:

While Mr Burrett argued that working part-time for the whole of a 24-month visit might amount to no more than 12 months at work, we cannot accept that this agrees with the purpose of the rule. First, in a working holiday which depended on being able to work part-time for the whole of one's stay, one's employment could not sensibly be described as "incidental to the holiday". What is more, the draftsman of the proviso has chosen to express the period allowed in any event in terms of months, and we have no doubt that was deliberate. Decision-makers are not required to add up each day to be worked to see if the total is likely to reach 12 months' work during the visit as a whole: they cannot have been expected to form their own rules, without any further guidance, as to what a working month, or even week was to be. All they need to do is to decide whether a would-be working holidaymaker will need to work for any part of a period (or periods, in line with Mr Khan's concession) exceeding 12 calendar months during his whole stay. If so, then following AG, his employment cannot be regarded as "incidental to the holiday", and the application must fail under the rule.

[IMMIGRATION LAWYER]

Definately wrong. Since February 2005 work must be incidental to holidays.

[avjones]

Definately wrong. Since February 2005 work must be incidental to holidays.

I know that, I was being polite (-:

[VictoriaS]

Obviously this has to be incidental to a holiday, but in a situation where someone is working, for example, two days a week in a pub, how can this be considered anything other than 'incidental'?

I hadn't seen that judgement, so thanks (that's what happens when you go on holiday!). But here's a question: what if you work one week on, one week off, and for different employers? Would this be considered as working for the whole period?

Victoria

[Dawie]

Whatever your interpretation of this proviso, the reality is that it is rarely enforced and almost impossible to police and many people work the full 24 months.

[VictoriaS]

That's not the point. If the ECO thinks you are going to work for more than 12 months he will refuse entry. And I have known companies get raided and for working holidaymakers to be removed for working illegally.

This ruling is going to be problematic for a lot of people, and, once again, it is those from the less wealthy Commonwealth countries who will suffer. It may well also lead to an increase in the numbers of people who come for 12 months, work full time, then leave.


Victoria

[Administrator]

.

The ancestry option appears to be out for you. Fairly close, direct relatives are needed. Which country they are from and which one you are in are important. An American with Irish grandparents can naturalize, for example, but that is about as easy as it gets.

You don't have a skill or education that will qualify you for HSMP.

That leaves a direct work permit .. but, again, you need a fairly critical skill and a sponsoring company.

The Working Holiday Maker is a great, one-time option. You're just young enough to do it. Soon (I think 30? or is it 28?) you will not.

It gets you in-country, you can do some work while on holiday, and it allows you to meet people, establish contacts, etc that can then (possibly) turn into employment opportunities.


You might consider becoming a student. Get into a UK university and graduate in the UK ... then you will have very, very serious options to remain. Keep an open mind for Scotland & Ireland too (as examples). Both have specific programs to encourage graduates to stay.

You're young and single ... in your favor.

You're looking at a multiple-year strategy ... VASTLY in your favor.

Try to get specialty skills on your CV rather than general tradesman. Any certifications you can pick can't hurt, although they don't specifically help anymore.

Keep in mind the 2012 Olympics are coming up ... there is going to be a LOT of activity requiring workers across a large spectrum of skills. Keep on top of what the government deems to be in short supply and try to get in on it.

You are a native English speaker from a closely allied country (both politically & historically/culturally). Again, points in your favor.


Your lack of experience, specialized skills and advanced education are against you.

But now you can more clearly evaluate what to work on and what you have to work with.

Good luck!

the Admin

[VictoriaS]

.

An American with Irish grandparents can naturalize, for example...

Erm....?


Victoria

[Christophe]

.

An American with Irish grandparents can naturalize, for example...

Erm....?


Victoria

Presumably meaning naturalise as Irish, not British, although I'm not sure that "naturalise" is the correct term, is it? And of course Americans aren't given any sort of privileged access here!

[yankeegirl]

I'm thinking the Admin meant that they can acquire IRISH citizenship with Irish grandparents, and then thus move freely to the UK. At least, that's how I read it anyways lol.

[goober]

Thanks again for the information. Looks like I have a lot of thinking to do.

Edit - Is it possible to go over on a working holiday, gain employment in a normal everyday job (supermarket etc) and have them give me a work permit to stay on for the 5 years?

Thanks
Goober

[VictoriaS]

No. You won't get a work permit for this kind of work.

have a look at those websites I suggested and you will see all about work permit.


Victoria

[Administrator]

.

I'm thinking the Admin meant that they can acquire IRISH citizenship with Irish grandparents, and then thus move freely to the UK. At least, that's how I read it anyways lol.

Indeed, exactly.

I was trying to use that as one example of "naturalizing" for "some" EU country & then being able to exercise EU treaty rights to travel, reside & work in "other" EU countries.

Americans with Irish grandparents are able to obtain Irish citizenship "fairly easily" relative to other ancestry options. Usually you must be the child of the citizen of another country, for example. Some countries require residency &/or language proficiency in addition, &/or the claim must be made before a certain age.

the Admin

[Administrator]

.

Read this:

Requirements for Working Holidaymaker Visa
http://www.workpermit.com/uk/wh_introduction.htm

If you want to use it, you should plan to do it quite soon. It is only available until you are 30. If you wait until you are 8 months from being 30 (for example), it will become difficult. Much better chances if you are 24 or 22 months away.


Some possibilities may be available to you once you are in the UK:

Other Categories
http://www.workpermit.com/uk/other.htm


If you take work in the UK, make sure you try to find work in some critical specialty to enhance your prospects of obtaining a work permit.

You need to build your CV. Working a super market or a pub or somesuch will not help you. You need a company to want you, to need you, and to sponsor you for a work permit. It MUST be in a category of needed skill.


Maybe you will get lucky, fall in love .....

Or apply & get accepted to a university ....


If you REALLY want to come to the UK & stay, get in-country and work for it. Ask constantly, get help & advice, build your CV .. if you want it, there is a way. But it will not fall out of the sky for you to pick it up. You need to make it happen.

Even if you must leave at the end of the Working Holiday Maker, your contacts & experience in the UK will help you get back.

Also, from memory (so I might be wrong), but I think time in the UK under the Working Holiday Maker cannot be used toward ILR. I might be confusing that with Australian policy, or it might be a general condition for most other countries. Check into it before planning on it.

the Admin

[VictoriaS]

Time on the Working Holidaymaker will only count for ILR if the applicant is accumulating 10 years legal residency.

Victoria

[goober]

Thanks again for your help, it has cleared a lot of things up.

Goober