HSMP- just another migration route ? Facts prove !

[sharat]

Here are some interesting facts about HSMP visa holders in UK collected in a survey.

- 65% are from Information Technology background.

- A shocking 75% of the HSMP visa holders remain unemployed in their respective fields and are doing low-level jobs for their day to day living.

- 25% left the country due in the first 5 months (for their good ? )

- 1 out of 3 is happy being given residency status in a western country

(survey results are soon due for official publishing - so please don't question me about the source )

PEOPLE NOW THINK !!

ARENT YA BETTER OFF BEING IN YOUR OWN DIGNIFIED PROFESSIONS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY EARNING A DECENT SALARY RATHER THAN CLEANING FLOORS OR GUARDING/OPENING DOORS FOR OTHERS IN AN ALIEN NATION ??????

This post is not meant to discourage anyone from applying... BUT JUST THINK !!! I have only posted a naked fact done by M.S and other highly qualified people who are forced to do jobs at bare minimum wages.

Do YOU deserve that too ???

[tyrex2000]

Lets get certain things straight

1. Working in a low level(e.g. cleaner) job in UK is much more dignified
than working in a dignified profession(e.g. IT) in a 3rd world country.
Even in low level jobs, people are treated with much more respect.

2. A low level job in UK doesn't mean cleaning floors (there are machines
for this, which are driven by cleaners) or holding doors for someone
(such things are absent since they don't have enough people to do this).
So applying a perception of low level jobs in 3rd world to the first
doesn't work

3. The "bare minimumum" in UK is more than "maximum" in several 3rd
world countries. The bare minimum is enough for someone with a family
to live a decent life (ofcourse no holidays and eating-out).

Even with the "maximum" in 3rd world countries, you can't afford to
achieve the standard of living in UK. (e.g. You may buy a merc but can
you afford to build good roads all over the country to drive it ??)

4. People unhappy with HSMP or leaving UK may have their own reasons,
one of which may be unrealistic expectations. Its a different country
with its own culture, lifestyle and work expectations. Professionalism
itself is different. Newcomers must adapt and change to fit in and not
the other way round. If people expect job offers on setting foot at
Heathrow, they must re-think.

5. There have been thousands of immigrants (ofcourse not highly skilled
ones) from India, Pakistan, China who came to UK, worked in low level
jobs for a while, saved money and started their own shops, businesses
and today they're some of the well off people even by UK standards.

The times in 1960s were even worse, there was no IT, no jobs and
being some of the first immigrants, they had more integration problems
than today. Still they survived and excelled.

So the question is not whether there are jobs or good jobs, its about
using the opportunities available to gain entry into 1st world and make it
big, ofcourse over time and with lots of efforts.

Cheers

[Rog]

I would like to add my experience here. I am in UK on HSMP. I am doing a temporary job below status of my job in my home country but have accepted my fate that you have to start from scratch as your experience in home country doesn't count for much. Only after gaining local experience and proving yourself in an entry level job you can rise, so patience is the keyword for staying here. Only HSMP holders who are IT specialists, researchers or Doctors are in a real demand and can hope for a job of dignity and status. For persons from other managerial background it is very difficult to break into a managerial permanent job with a British corporation as they will first give preference to a British person, then an EU person and then only an Asian/African person. Also the structure of HSMP giving only a one year visa initially, makes it very difficult to obtain a permanent job as employers only go by the expiry date and are reluctant to offer you a job citing visal expiring in less than an year as reason for rejection. The fact the visa is renewable after 1 year and the words 'Highly Skilled' are absolutely meaningless to any employer.

[sharat]

Sometimes its understandble when someone gets trapped in a kind of situation like yours.

Most of the cases, people put themselves forward knowing what they are upto and without knowing the value of education they holding.

seeing reply #2, I wonder what is the difference between an asylum seeking applicant and HSMP for the reasoning he has given ?

- why do you need education ?
- why did you get educated
- to do cleaning jobs (supposedly dignified ? )

- THINK - what is value for education that you are holding when you are doing a minimum wage job ?

- PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT PICTURE YOURSELF IN THE CATEGORY OF AN ASYLUM SEEKERS JOB ROLE NOW BEING HOLDING A WORK PERMIT OR HSMP !!! THIS IS HIGH TIME TO THINK. ARE NT YOU WORTH MORE ?

THere are better things to do in life that holding a technically advanced mop or vaccum cleaner in a western nation .

[tvt]

Sharat,

Do you work for the BNP by any chance?

[JayGee]

I have attained my HSMP status with Entry Clearance, arriving on 9 October 2004 in the UK with the intent to succeed in my quest to provide a better quality of life for my family, which consist of my wife and 3 children (aged 10 years, 7 years and 6 months).

Considering that I had a cushy Managerial job, earned ZAR500K p/annum, could fly annually overseas to attend conferences, had wonderful training oppurtunities, had the time of my life and just resigned I shudder to think that all will be wasted.

Needless to say, I will succeed, if that means taking a low income job initially then so be it, in my country I had to do work twice as hard as anyone else in my companies because of the political arena and I succeeded. I have no doubt that these obstacles in my country must be seen as challenges in the UK. Why would people of all walks of life move to the UK - even Americans relocate to the UK for that matter...???

[tgs]

I'm more than happy here and I have been here for 5 months. Okay the weather is not that great but we can't have everything.

I entered the UK with a job that leave with £3,000 spare cash a month after all my expenses. I could do that while I was in my home country.

Money isn't everything but I enjoy the culture here.

[JayGee]

TGS, indeed you are correct, money ain't eveything. I am more interested in getting quality in stead on quantity.

[Rog]

TGS

You are indeed fortunate to have a job which generates £3000 monthly savings. You are earning good money compared to other HSMP candidates in Uk I have met. I have been doing oddjobs on hourly wages and just about surviving with family in a basic existence we were never used to with no extra luxuries. I have to be angry with my child when he asks for a new toy which I had never done in my home country. But it is my decision so I have to bear it. By the way what is your field to get such a well paid job.

[sharat]

tvt - appreciate your sense of humor

people please understand - i'm not against immigration or hsmp or anything relating to that because I'm also one amongst you.

I only raised a concern in the public forum about highly qualified and experienced people who come to UK and end up doing cheap labour for the sake of living, when most of them are very well off in their home countries. Some of them cannot go back to their home countries because they will be deported and stamped on the passport due to their illegal stay. They are living a concealed life seeing their tough future ahead.

When you think of all that and the recent HSMP trent, I only posted a few thoughts based on the factual data that I have access on.

I know I cannot correct or guide anyone, but might help atleast 1 in 100 who is reading this post about the truths and facts, and they might TWICE before taking a decision. I'm only attempting to show that other side of the river is not always greener unless you are capable of making and seeing it greener.

Bottom line is:
an individual who is educated enough should stand by his decision. What is the difference between He and an asylum seeker when both of them do the same job in this country.

[tgs]

Rog,

Whatis your proffesion ? I'm and another friend is in Risk management.

[f2k]

i think to put this issue to rest just tell pple hear the source of your info. cause what you are saying now has nothing to do with HSMP, you are now talking about ppple who cant go back to home cause they are 'illegal'. now thats not HSMP that is pple who flouted immigration laws to better themselves but things didnt quite work out. with the HSMP visa you have permission to work in any field you want, go home whenever you want and come back without worrying about the immigration officers. i seriously doubt your source of information. truth of course is when you get to a new country you will face obstacles, like language, experience etc, and this will result in yourself not taking up the role that you feel you require, but with time you will have the necessary experience and communication skills to actually move into those 'high level' jobs. please dont make out HSMP to be a bad thing, i am pretty sure there are more success stories than negative ones. if you disagree you can always show us your source

[lightpace]

i do agree with much of what tyrex and f2k have said. each person has a different motivating factor(s) to migrate, with accompanying levels of expectations.

some of us have faced the toughest form of challenges in our home countries which makes the challenges of life in the UK even pleasant. i for one donot expect to get to UK and find a bed of roses (assuming i get a favourable decision). my colleagues and i often joke that if u can survive in Nigeria, then u can survive anywhere in the world!

i have visited UK severally during annual vacations and each time one sees vast areas of opportunities to excel in dignified endevours whether through employment or private business.

anyone who comes to a decision to relocate must have thought of the far implications through and through and should be able to stand by the decision no matter what happens.

for some people, reasons include ambition to excel in their fields given the high level of facilities available, search for better standards of living, security/persecution, etc.

a conscious decision taken should never be regretted but learnt from.

[f2k]

just some info kindly provided to us by try-one, please follow the link

try-one
Junior Member


Joined: 24 Sep 2004



Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: 5,570 successful applications up to 31 December 2003

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Info from the parliament:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 105-02.htm

I can reassure the noble Baroness that, during the two years the scheme has been operating, of the 5,570 people who have been granted leave, only one has not proven to the department's satisfaction at the end of 12 months that he was not economically active and self-sufficient.

[Sher]

I guess we in the third world do not know what 'good life' is and they in the first world do not know what a 'good wife' is !

Life is pretty even-steven, hain na?


I pretty much lived in the same situation elsewhere in the developed world. And to add my two bit, out of that experience :

1.] One must have a 'strategy/plan' before one lands, in line with the opportunity available yonder and what one's countrypeople are recognised for .... eg. Indians for tech and hard work, or mathematical/ statistical finesse, Chinese for skilled handiwork.
Try and gather a rare or in-demand skill, if you don't have one already.
(of course, I realise that it is easier said .... )

2.] Have yr family's (esp. spouse's) prior commitment that together u will move hell, that u will succeed ... come what may !

3.] Be mentally prepared for the worst even be4 you have stepped outside yr homeland. Never depend on friends or relatives being there. One will always be better off assuming that they will not help.
Rabindranath Tagore once said : Aikla chalo re ( In endeavour ... walk alone)

4.] Have several 'fall-back' or 'stock' options. Keep speedily attempting yr main and alternative plans, one after the other. Don't lose heart or time.. Courage and speed are handy friends !

5.] Never say no to the first job that comes yr way. If you don't like it, do it and keep trying for a better one. The last thing u can ever be in a foreign land is arrogant or reckless. Remember, money, however little will atleast give you 'staying' power.

6.] Have 'meaningful' flexibilty of thought. Be ready to alter or change yr 'strategies/plans' mid course, if the situation so demands.

7.] If all fails, fill yr chest with enough pride that u tried yr very best and pack yr bags. Try yr luck elsewhere in the world or at home. No one ever loses his share of the sky !

[try-one]

Agree...........
The immigrant fate is just that......try, try and try until it works.....

[Developer]

People,

Spend some time teaching yourself rather than others... Everybody is equally matured and understands the actions he/she takes in life. If someone has decided to come to UK then our job should be to guide the way.

The third world... sounds good to me... you know what people in all the parts of the world. So, it really doesn't matter where you.... what matters is how you live. An average guy in your so called third world is among best here.

Remember, this trend is not new... it's been there since ages movement of labour towards a better source has already been in practise. Then why curse HSMP or anything like that.

If one is not comfortable with it.. you have a choice. Withdraw it.

[sharat]

This HSMP stats is as of Dec 2005, not available in the public domain - [compared to earlier survey done]

- 69% are from ITechnology background [ Aug 2004, 65% ]

- 70% of the HSMP visa holders remain unemployed in their respective fields and are doing low-level jobs for their day to day living. [ Aug 2004, 75% ]

- 35% left the country due in the first 7 months [ Aug 2004, 25% first 5 months]

- 2 out of 3 is happy being given residency status in a western country [ Aug 2004, 1 of 3 ]

[indian_in_uk]

I guess we in the third world do not know what 'good life' is and they in the first world do not know what a 'good wife' is !

Life is pretty even-steven, hain na?

!

Ha ha haha..good one sher:)

[sharat]

the report is fairly comprehensive like last time and it is amazing how many people are really living in the RIGHT TRACK

For example:: HMRC (former Inland Revenue) issued UTRs for yearly TRs and those NI no:s linksonly for 8% of the total HSMP applicants come for SA in 2004-2005
Which only suggests to us that , those 67% who are still living in the UK are doing CASH IN HAND jobs - unofficially and there is no source in the earth can verify this.

As a matter of fact - only under 60% seem to have got an NI no: even

[ssashi]

I'd like to share with you my experience. I came to UK in 2004 as a highly skilled migrant, leaving a very good position as a university lecturer with an australian university offshore campus in Malaysia. I had served as a university lecturer for several years, won a research grant and presented papers at national and international conferences. I also reviewed papers for two american based engineering journals. I was awarded points for significant achievement.

I had very good qualifications, inluding a master's degree in electrical engineering from imperial college london, reputed to be among the 3 best universities in uk and top 20 in the world. Not intending to boast, I speak very good english, scoring an A1 in Cambridge's general certificate in education english paper, taken by native speakers in england.

I found it difficult to find work in a university, so i thought I'd first teach for a while in a high school. But i did not have the Post graduate certificate in education (PGCE). A teaching agency contacted me and said they would allow me to teach at a high school, but I wouldnt be paid. She said it would be good experience for me, and I couldnt be paid as I did not have a PGCE.

I asked her how she expected me to survive teaching for free. I told her I was a highly skilled migrant. She said that as a migrant to the UK, I shouldnt be too picky and be willing to work in restaurants as a waiter. I suddenly remembered my father's words before I left Malaysia. 'Don't work at McDonald's or anything like that, remember you're very highly qualified'.

After talking to the teaching agency, I immediately booked my flight and returned to my university position in Malaysia. I will be applying for my senior lecturer position soon, salary is very good and I can afford a comfortable annual holiday.

Sadly, most in UK think that all immigrants/assylum seekers are the same. I'm sorry that some think that wielding an electric mop machine in the UK is better than the prestigious positions they left back home. I'll just share with you that I've been now named in the 2006 Who's Who in the World publication, something I wouldn't have achieved as an electric mop wielding worker in the UK!!

Think carefully my friends. Think carefully and don't be afraid to cut your losses when you think all is hopeless. The longer you stay doing odd jobs, the more difficult it'll be to regain control of your thriving career!!

sashi

[Chess]

interesting story!

different people will have different experiences and stories to tell....

..others are thinking of opportunities for their children in future and not for themselves!!!

[sharat]

ssashi

I think you've made an excellent decision. Congratulations.
Since I am an immigrant myself, I can understand the INNER MEANING of facts better that those who computationally compile and present them to IND.

I think what happens with HSMP is, those who dream of a white-collar job abroad unfortunately and unknowingly ends up taking a LOW CADRE job for the temporary relief from the huge financial pressure during their initialjobless days. Understandable and the benefit is from their unrestricted TIMELY stay granted.

As the SA tax figures indicates: only a few HSMP holders seem to be getting out the REAL BENEFIT later on from there stay.

Chess

I can understand if a genuine asylum seeker coming for a future for their children BUT
How on earth you can justify someone doing £5ph CASH IN HAND job at 2am in the night while he was taking home a decent 9-5 job with a upper threshold income in their own country??

[ssashi]

Dear friends,

My story was not meant to be a detterent to anyone applying for a HSMP visa. Please give it a try, heavens knows that if I did not stick on with my dreams, I wouldnt have achieved much.

I just ask that you be careful. I am just sad that the fees has gone up to such a high amount and I know that this is a difficult sum for people coming from third world countries like myself. Many also are feted at home before they come to UK, too embarassed to return home after everything has gone 'tits up'.

I'm just giving you the other side of the story, something I wished someone had told me before I came to the UK as a HSMP migrant. But please evaluate your own situation. As for me, I never appreciated my home country more! So thank you HSMP!

Sashi, Malaysia

[sharat]

DEAR Admins

Am I allowed to post further facts from the report:: if that will help future HSMP applicants to evaluate their position knowing what is happening in country with their fellow HSMP immigrants.

DATA is in hand WONT be available in the public domain and the facts may be disturbing. I'm sure it will be highly useful and thought provoking from the pilot schemes that ran the reports earlier because we atleast have a baseline for comparison with last year.

THE KEY IS: I should not sound blatantly discouraging and or hurt or touch anyone inner feeling ...only hope is :: If it helps, let them make a better decision for their own future like ssashi