EEA Family Permit for Parents

[pranjam]

Hi,

This is a query I posted in another thread and it seems this might be a more appropriate place for it. As far as I understand currently there are two ways of getting your parents in the UK one is the SSR which has been widely discussed already but which requires you to meet the "Centre of Life" rules.

Is it not possible to get your parents in via the EU article 10 family permit route. This is based on the McCarthy ruling and is explained here on the UK Gov website https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card

If you get the EU Family permit for you parents by exercising your EU rights in another country you don't have to base your "Centre of life" as such in that country so you can still return to UK on weekends for example.

Once they have entered the country based on the above they can apply for a UK residence card
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... d/overview

Can someone please comment if this is correct or are there loopholes that I am not aware of

[secret.simon]

Earlier thread here for a fuller background into the query

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 87024.html

[Babajee85]

Earlier thread here for a fuller background into the query

http://www.immigrationboards.com/immigr ... 87024.html

Any one Please ?

[ALKB]

Hi,

This is a query I posted in another thread and it seems this might be a more appropriate place for it. As far as I understand currently there are two ways of getting your parents in the UK one is the SSR which has been widely discussed already but which requires you to meet the "Centre of Life" rules.

Is it not possible to get your parents in via the EU article 10 family permit route. This is based on the McCarthy ruling and is explained here on the UK Gov website https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card

If you get the EU Family permit for you parents by exercising your EU rights in another country you don't have to base your "Centre of life" as such in that country so you can still return to UK on weekends for example.

Once they have entered the country based on the above they can apply for a UK residence card
https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... d/overview

Can someone please comment if this is correct or are there loopholes that I am not aware of

As I understand it, McCarthy simply facilitates travel to the UK for people with EEA residence cards. So far, the UK only accepts German and Estonian (?) residence cards as their document checking processes meet the UK requirements. I don't think McCarthy has actually been implemented into UK legislation but somebody please correct me if that's wrong. In any case, you as a British citizen would still have to provide proof of having shifted your centre of life to the other EU country at the point of applying for a UK residence card.

So you can either move your life to another EU country and hopefully pass the centre of life test at the point of applying for an EEA family permit for your parents or you can hope that the airline will let you all board on the basis of EEA residence cards (which in many cases takes about 6 months to get in the first place) and then hopefully pass the centre of life test at the point of applying for a residence card in the UK.

No real difference that I can see.

[pranjam]

"Centre of Life" is an UK law not an EU law, if you look into the ruling it is mentioned that you do not even have to work in the EU country to pass off as somebody who is exercising their EU rights. You only have to prove that you have enough funds in order to not be a burden on the state, also there is no law about spending time in that country.

For example you can stay at a rented accommodation (not a hotel) for 4 days a week and you will be cast as a resident in that country who is exercising their EU rights.

Details of this can be read in the ruling. Also the EU commission is said to be investigating the "Centre of Life" clause because this is against the EU ruling which as I have mentioned above does not impose these clauses.

The dependency as per the EU law of a parent is also deemed and not as a necessity in other words if your parents can afford to be financially independent but you still pay money to them to support them, this will still count as being dependent as per the EU law.

The links I posted are from the gov.uk website which declare that the McCarthy ruling is now a part of the UK legislation and any person who holds a EU Family permit cannot be denied entry to UK if they they enter the country with a "eligible" person or they can prove their relationship to them. The definition of "eligible" is on the gov.uk website as someone who is living in the country for atleast 3 months and some other criteria around employment.

The ruling is not for Germany or any other countries residence cards but clearly states that it is for residence cards issued under the EU law directive article 10 or 20. These cannot be issued unless you become a resident of another country other than your own. There have been instances where national resident cards issued by Germany have been accepted at UK borders but this is not covered by the ruling.

When applying for a UK residence permit there are no "Center of Life" clauses you only need to prove dependency which is much easier since your parents are already residing with you. Also this cannot be the only criteria on which your application can be rejected as this goes against the EU laws again. Also if you already have the EU family permit you do not need to apply for a UK residence card at all because after 5 years you can apply for an ILR instead.

Overall this seems a much more straightforward way than the SSR for those who cannot shift their "Center of Life" to another country.

[pranjam]

Futher proof that this is a much more easier way can be seen here http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/ ... uling.html

The McCarthy ruling has been made part of the UK legislation since 6th April so no one with a valid EU Family of an EEA citizen permit can be denied entry to the UK or a subsequent Residence permit application for that matter as per this law.

[ALKB]

Futher proof that this is a much more easier way can be seen here http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/ ... uling.html

The McCarthy ruling has been made part of the UK legislation since 6th April so no one with a valid EU Family of an EEA citizen permit can be denied entry to the UK or a subsequent Residence permit application for that matter as per this law.

All sorted then.

So you only have to move to an EU country with your parents and apply for that country's residence card.

You don't have to apply for a residence card in the UK, but in real life terms, on a day-today basis, how easy do you think will it be, if your parents' only documentation for the legality of their stay in the UK is the residence card of another country?

That the centre of life terms are being scrutinised is all well and good but for the time being they stand. Denmark has been getting away with something similar for years and years.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you, I just think it might be a bit more difficult in practice than on paper.

[pranjam]

Futher proof that this is a much more easier way can be seen here http://britcits.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/ ... uling.html

The McCarthy ruling has been made part of the UK legislation since 6th April so no one with a valid EU Family of an EEA citizen permit can be denied entry to the UK or a subsequent Residence permit application for that matter as per this law.

All sorted then.

So you only have to move to an EU country with your parents and apply for that country's residence card.

You don't have to apply for a residence card in the UK, but in real life terms, on a day-today basis, how easy do you think will it be, if your parents' only documentation for the legality of their stay in the UK is the residence card of another country?

That the centre of life terms are being scrutinised is all well and good but for the time being they stand. Denmark has been getting away with something similar for years and years.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to discourage you, I just think it might be a bit more difficult in practice than on paper.

Once they are in the country they can apply for a UK residence card https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... igibility.

If you look at the guidance notes here it further details the requirements https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... s_v2_0.pdf

This is an EU law that is part of the UK legislation. If you go through the pdf it clearly states the criteria for a UK residence permit for a non EEA dependent of a UK Citizen and it is way more straightforward than "Centre of Life" rules.

I do agree that the "Centre of Life" rules are here to stay for a while yet which is why I believe this is the better options.

[DanChak]

Can you apply for a UK residence card for a family member, of a British national who is living in the UK?
As per the website, I think its possible - https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... ligibility
If so why do you suggest moving to another EU country where this may require the more sticter SSR?

[secret.simon]

I think you are being way too optimistic and misreading the situation.

The link above is indeed for applying for a UK residence card for non-EEA relatives of "an EEA national who is a permanent resident or ‘qualified person’".

But here is the catch; British citizens are not EEA citizens in the UK, unless they move the center of their life to another country in the EEA (in other words, Surinder Singh).

In other words; You do not qualify as an EEA citizen (and hence this link does not apply to your parents) because you are British and not sufficiently based in another EEA country for you to come under the purview of the EEA Regulations.

From my reading of the situation, all McCarthy allows is that holders of an EEA family permit in one country do not need to apply for a family permit to enter another EEA country. It says nothing about residence cards or rights to residency.

Family permits are essentially short term visit visas. The UK issues EEA family permits for six months for family members of EEA citizens and I am sure that other EEA countries issue family permits for such short periods too.

What you can do is get your parents EEA family permits in another EEA country by exercising treaty rights there. They can then travel to the UK on the basis of that family permit. However, they will not be able to access any resources that require a UK visa or documentation, which is most of them. I do not know if the other country would issue an EHIC card to your parents off the back of a family permit, but they would need an EHIC card to access the NHS.

Quoting from the Britcits link above

...there can be no additional requirements in relation to obtaining any other visa or permit, where the Article 10 Residence Card is genuine, for entry purposes only.

This ruling is of most benefit to those holding a Residence Card and who frequently visit other member states for a short duration;

If you want a UK family permit, you will have to undergo the Surinder Singh route in order for you to qualify as an EEA citizen in the UK.

[DanChak]

Dear Simon

I take your pooint that "British citizens are not EEA citizens in the UK".
Does the McCarthy ruling allow non-EEA family members to travel to the UK based on a EU residence card?
I thought that was the basis of the ruling as Mrs McCarthy was not allowed to travel to the UK based on her Spanish Residence Card and had to apply for an EEA family permit each time.

Regards
Dan

[secret.simon]

Hi Dan,

My understanding of McCarthy is that non-EEA dependants of an EEA citizen can travel to and from the UK without requiring a UK visa for that. That is, an EEA residence card is valid for travel across the EEA. It says nothing about residing in another EEA country.

Simon

[DanChak]

Hi Simon

So what is the best option for non-EEA family member of British nationals to move permanently to the UK if they have a EEA residence card?
Apply for family permit or visa, valid for six months while living abroad and then apply for UK residence card once the family move to the UK?
This seems to take impossibly long!

Or apply for UK Residence card via SSR from outside the UK if they can afford to live abroad?

Dan

[pranjam]

I think there is some confusion once you enter the country you can reside in it and then claim citizenship after lawful residence of 5 years. Yes you might not be able to claim benefits but that's not the original intention. Many EEA nationals cannot claim benefits after 6 months without a job anyway.

[secret.simon]

claim citizenship after lawful residence of 5 years

Not citizenship, but PR.

once you enter the country you can reside in it

You can. But I think you will need UK documentation for day-to-day things like getting NI, opening Bank accounts, etc. If you were to present an Estonian residence card to open a UK bank account, for instance, I'm not sure the bank staff would know what to do next.

Also not sure if you can work in the UK based on the residence card of another European country. I think you will need a UK residence permit to work in the UK.

[pranjam]

Yes you are right but I don't intend to have my parents work here all I need is for them to be able to live here and claim citizenship in 6 years hopefully. I do intend to get some professional opinion however and will update when I've had more information.

[pranjam]

Unfortunately it turns out that this is not as straightforward as it seems. UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this. A FOI request for this has been raised but no response received so far details here
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... y_ruling_2

[secret.simon]

UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.

That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?

You may (or may not) be interested in my opinion of what will happen to the Surinder Singh route in two years time.

[pranjam]

pranjam wrote:
UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.

That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?

You may (or may not) be interested in my opinion of what will happen to the Surinder Singh route in two years time.

I have not been able to find the Annex A which is referred to in the link that I posted. The gov.uk website is very hard to navigate. However from the FOI requests and the experiences of the people it is quite clear the UKBA has once again got discriminatory policies in place against british citizens. If someone can find this Annex A it would be very useful.

I'll give that post a read thanks but like everything else with this EU referendum it's hard to say what will happen.

[Wanderer]

pranjam wrote:
UKBA have put in laws to exclude british citizens from this.

That is not surprising. Can you provide us with the links to the relevant rules or to other documentation (newspaper articles, etc) that detail the rules?

You may (or may not) be interested in my opinion of what will happen to the Surinder Singh route in two years time.

I have not been able to find the Annex A which is referred to in the link that I posted. The gov.uk website is very hard to navigate. However from the FOI requests and the experiences of the people it is quite clear the UKBA has once again got discriminatory policies in place against british citizens. If someone can find this Annex A it would be very useful.

I'll give that post a read thanks but like everything else with this EU referendum it's hard to say what will happen.

Not fulfilling the criteria that's applicable to all is not discrimination, it's just not fulfilling the criteria.

[secret.simon]

Not fulfilling the criteria that's applicable to all is not discrimination, it's just not fulfilling the criteria.

Agreed. If anything, these are the rules that everybody should be following, not with exceptions for relatives of EEA citizens.I can appreciate the freedom of movement for workers in the Common Market. Not so sure about the freedom of movement of non-EEA family members of British citizens who have popped over to France or Ireland for three months.

Here is a link to the current Immigration Rules. I can't seem to find a relevant Annexe A in it.

Can you report the link that has the reference to Annexe A? Neither of the links in the original post have any reference to an Annexe A.

[pranjam]

[quote = "Wanderer"]:
Not fulfilling the criteria that's applicable to all is not discrimination, it's just not fulfilling the criteria.[/quote]

The criteria if this is part of it is itself discriminatory, the criteria cannot be established based on citizenship if the judgement applies to all EU citizens irrespective of the nationality. If I specify a criteria that only people of certain race are allowed to do something is that not discrimination?

Agreed. If anything, these are the rules that everybody should be following, not with exceptions for relatives of EEA citizens.I can appreciate the freedom of movement for workers in the Common Market. Not so sure about the freedom of movement of non-EEA family members of British citizens who have popped over to France or Ireland for three months.

Here is a link to the current Immigration Rules. I can't seem to find a relevant Annexe A in it.

Can you report the link that has the reference to Annexe A? Neither of the links in the original post have any reference to an Annexe A..

If there was a more appropriate way of bringing your parents to your adopted country as there was in the UK before the discriminatory policies were put in place these workarounds would never be needed. The reference to this Annex A is in the link I posted earlier from the freedom of information request

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... y_ruling_2

The relevant portion is

I would like to clarify something stated in Annex A, at:

"10.It should be noted that this judgment does not affect the
rights of family members of British citizens who have exercised
Treaty rights in another EEA member state under the ‘Surinder
Singh’ judgment. Such persons should continue to be considered
under regulation 9 of the EEA Regulations"

Please clarify whether by the above it is meant that in practice
family members of British citizens, holding an Article 10 Residence
Card issued by an EEA Member State other than Switzerlan, are thus
still required to obtain a UK Family Permit or UK visa, even where
the travel is with or to join their sponsor (British).

The fact that the UKBA have not responded to this request and are willing to be taken to court to get a response for this is proof enough that they know they are in the wrong.

[secret.simon]

I fully agree that the rules in favour of EEA citizens and their family members are discriminatory in their favour. The solution is therefore to abolish their special status Make the rules for British citizens applicable to them too. Then there is no discrimination.

The rules as regards Adult Dependant Relatives have been created by a democratically elected government and passed by a democratically elected Parliament. It could be argued that it is the will of the British people that has created these rules (I am using Alexis Tsipiris's argument here).

The fact that the UKBA have not responded to this request and are willing to be taken to court to get a response for this is proof enough that they know they are in the wrong.

That is a bit of leap of logic. There can be many reasons for a delay in the response, from my point of view, to develop a nuanced response taking into account the balance between the legal and political positions.

Yes you are right but I don't intend to have my parents work here all I need is for them to be able to live here and claim citizenship in 6 years hopefully. I do intend to get some professional opinion however and will update when I've had more information.

To respond to an earlier post by you, you will be able to bring your parents to the UK if they have an EEA family permit from another EEA country for short trips. But in order to claim PR & citizenship, they will need to prove their stay in the UK for five years. If properly implemented, their passports will not get stamped when traveling within the EU. To prove that they are resident in the UK (something the McCarthy ruling does not give them a right to anyway), they will need to be registered with various organisations (GP, bank, etc). As I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will all recognise all EU family permits. So, their PR may fail on that ground. No PR, no citizenship.

I will look for the Annex A again, now that I have an idea of what to look for.

[pranjam]

The rules as regards Adult Dependant Relatives have been created by a democratically elected government and passed by a democratically elected Parliament. It could be argued that it is the will of the British people that has created these rules (I am using Alexis Tsipiris's argument here).

I assume you mean Alexis Tsipras and I'm pretty sure if there was a referendum on just this topic most people would actually vote against it controlling immigration at the cost of dividing families is not acceptable to all.

That is a bit of leap of logic. There can be many reasons for a delay in the response, from my point of view, to develop a nuanced response taking into account the balance between the legal and political positions.

Considering that they have not responded to this even after the information commissioner has asked them to do suggests there is something sinister especially if you look at the other requests which were actually responded to far more promptly.

To respond to an earlier post by you, you will be able to bring your parents to the UK if they have an EEA family permit from another EEA country for short trips. But in order to claim PR & citizenship, they will need to prove their stay in the UK for five years. If properly implemented, their passports will not get stamped when traveling within the EU. To prove that they are resident in the UK (something the McCarthy ruling does not give them a right to anyway), they will need to be registered with various organisations (GP, bank, etc). As I mentioned earlier, I doubt they will all recognise all EU family permits. So, their PR may fail on that ground. No PR, no citizenship.

You maybe right but its a moot point now since it seems this ruling is not applicable anyway unless one first proves oneself to be a EU citizen by passing the "Centre of Life" rules.

I will look for the Annex A again, now that I have an idea of what to look for.

Do let us know if you find it, it could come useful later.

[secret.simon]

I'm pretty sure if there was a referendum on just this topic most people would actually vote against it controlling immigration at the cost of dividing families is not acceptable to all.

It entirely depends on the question you ask.

If you ask whether families should be divided by immigration policy, the answer will likely be no.

If you ask whether a naturalised British citizen should have the inalienable right to bring his whole family with him, I have no doubt the resounding answer will be no, probably accompanied by a clamour to tighten citizenship rules.