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Forum to discuss all things Blarney | Ireland immigration

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umalig
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waiting for reply

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:42 am

HI to ALL

I came in ireland as a student in 2003 and i get married with LTH girl in 2006 7 july and unluckly my visa expired 30 june....2006 after 6 days....and i send my doc to deppt of justice they recived my doc 28 Aug 2006 ....and we have baby 20 dec 2006 in irealnd....and just like every bady get this letter on 23 may 2007 i get same as well ..wut i think that when i send my doc i did not send my baby birth cert and i send feb 2007 and then i contact with deppt of justice through email that to re-open my case again and they reply to me they will look agian to my file and they will contact with me in written ....so i am waiting for this reply..i just wana ask did any bady have idea where i am standing now in this case,,,,,,,,,,it will be great to know......

runie80
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Re: waiting for reply

Post by runie80 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:43 am

umalig wrote:HI to ALL

.........i just wana ask did any bady have idea where i am standing now in this case,,,,,,,,,,it will be great to know......
ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: Excellent !
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

Dimy77
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Re: waiting for reply

Post by Dimy77 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:45 am

runie80 wrote:
umalig wrote:HI to ALL

.........i just wana ask did any bady have idea where i am standing now in this case,,,,,,,,,,it will be great to know......
ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: Excellent !
I don't think he posted here to be laughed at.... not everybody has perfect english, show some respect runie.

runie80
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Re: waiting for reply

Post by runie80 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:52 am

Dimy77 wrote:
runie80 wrote:
umalig wrote:HI to ALL

.........i just wana ask did any bady have idea where i am standing now in this case,,,,,,,,,,it will be great to know......
ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: Excellent !
I don't think he posted here to be laughed at.... not everybody has perfect english, show some respect runie.
I just thought its funny someone looking for help not taking time to check what he is posting.

No offence intended.I just thought it was funny.

That said I think with regards to his topic he should consult Solicitor or Migrant Rights Ireland IMO
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

archigabe
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Re: waiting for reply

Post by archigabe » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:52 pm

umalig wrote:HI to ALL

I came in ireland as a student in 2003 and i get married with LTH girl in 2006 7 july and unluckly my visa expired 30 june....2006 after 6 days....and i send my doc to deppt of justice they recived my doc 28 Aug 2006 ....and we have baby 20 dec 2006 in irealnd....and just like every bady get this letter on 23 may 2007 i get same as well ..wut i think that when i send my doc i did not send my baby birth cert and i send feb 2007 and then i contact with deppt of justice through email that to re-open my case again and they reply to me they will look agian to my file and they will contact with me in written ....so i am waiting for this reply..i just wana ask did any bady have idea where i am standing now in this case,,,,,,,,,,it will be great to know......
Umar, The chen ruling can help people like you who want to claim residency on the basis of having a E.U citizen child.

Chen ruling you can look here:

http://www.epha.org/a/1476

http://www.immigrantcouncil.ie/chen.pdf

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 8489185556

umalig
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THANKS TO ALL

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:48 pm

THANKS TOO ALL WHO GAVE REPLY TO MY MESSAGE.............AND I WANA TO ASK 1 THING MORE THAT I DONOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE OF MY FAMILY IT IS IMPORTANT TO GET HEALTH INSURANCE.....OF MY FAMILY....SO IT MEAN MY CASE IS IN STRONG POSITION ? THAT I WILL GET STAMP 4 ? BEC OF MY WIFE OR BEC OF MY SON.....
REGARDS
UMAIR

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:20 pm

I can't answer your question, but typing in all capitals (LIKE THIS) on forum is perceived as shouting and considered rude.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:43 pm

Your wife is an "LTH girl". Does this mean Lithuanian? If so, then according to European law, you have the right of residence in Ireland providing your wife is working here or is self-sufficient.

Getting the Irish Department of Justice (DoJ) to recognise this right is another matter. Unless you have previously lived in another EU country with your wife, your application is likely to be rejected. This is because the DoJ have illegally added this clause in their interpretation of EU Directive 2004/38/EC.

The fact that you may have a child who is a Lithuanian and/or Irish citizen is irrelevant, as your application for residency in accordance with EU Directive 2004/38/EC is still likely to be declined for the same reason as mentioned above.

PS: yankeegirl is right - writing anything in all caps is considering shouting and rude.

umalig
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THANKS

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:30 pm

YES SHE IS FROM LITHUANIAN AND SHE WORKING IN IRELAND FOR LAST 18 MONTHS..
AND I DID NOT LIVE IN LITHUANIAN COUNTRY WITH MY WIFE ....AND MY SON BORN IN IRELAND..SO IN 1 YEAR I THINK HE WILL GET IRISH PASSPORT ACCORDING TO MY INFORMATION.....
BUT I WANT TO ASK 1 THING THAT WHEN STUDENT VISA EXPIRED NORMALLY YOU HAVE 3 MONTH TO STAY IN IRELAND TO RENEW YOUR VISA....AND I SEND MY DOCUMENTS IN A SAME MONTH ...OK I AM JUST THINKING THAT IT MEAN MY APPEAL WILL AGAIN REFUSE AND I HAVE TO LEAVE THIS COUNTRY I HAVE TO LEAVE MY 9 MONTH SON MY WIFE I MEAN EVERY THING..?

AND I DONOT WANT TO BE RUDE ...I POST MY MESSAGE FIRST TIME I AM SORRY FOR ALL.....

umalig
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i reply again in caps sorry

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:34 pm

it does not mean i am shouting and rude...but i reply and i did not read last line i am again sorry....

runie80
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Post by runie80 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:51 pm

I am changing all your text to lower case so someone can help you !


Post 1

thanks too all who gave reply to my message.............and i wana to ask 1 thing more that i donot have health insurance of my family it is important to get health insurance.....of my family....so it mean my case is in strong position ? that i will get stamp 4 ? bec of my wife or bec of my son.....
regards
umair
______

Post 2
yes she is from lithuanian and she working in ireland for last 18 months..
and i did not live in lithuanian country with my wife ....and my son born in ireland..so in 1 year i think he will get irish passport according to my information.....
but i want to ask 1 thing that when student visa expired normally you have 3 month to stay in ireland to renew your visa....and i send my documents in a same month ...ok i am just thinking that it mean my appeal will again refuse and i have to leave this country i have to leave my 9 month son my wife i mean every thing..?

and i donot want to be rude ...i post my message first time i am sorry for all.....
In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

umalig
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Thanks runie80

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:57 pm

Thanks so much to changing to lower text .............

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:00 pm

Unfortunately your situation is the same as many. You are very likely to be refused residency (stamp 4) on the grounds that you have not previously lived in another EU country with your spouse.

You may wish to consider applying for a UK EEA Family Permit and move to Northern Ireland for six months then return to ROI.

Regarding Irish citizenship for your son, then as far as I can see he is an Irish citizen by birth. As such, he is able to apply for an Irish passport straight away. This is because one of his parents (you) have resided in Ireland lawfully for three out of the four years preceding your son's birth. You were legally in Ireland on a student visa from 2003 until 30th June 2006, and your son was born on 20th December 2006. I only hope that you arrived in Ireland on your student visa prior to 30th June 2003, otherwise you will be short of three years lawful residence. Further info here: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/NoticeCB ... iceCBI.pdf

umalig
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Thanks benifa

Post by umalig » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:22 pm

thanks for replying my in detail.......
ok you right i was here 3 years legally and when i get letter from passport ofice that they refuse to gave irish passport to my son i ask why they told me you are here as a student so we donot consider you we want to know how long you wife is living in ireland i told she is here for 17 months almost..i try to many tme to get irish passort of my son but no ........so now wut we are doing that i am sending back to my wife and son to Lithuanian to get Lith paspsort..and she will her name as well in her passport i mean surname ....but i will fight till end..bec i am not to leave my son and my wife alone here i will go till end ..bec how they can live with out me father..how they will eat.....and i donot now wut i will do..i have a laywer as well..i will try as much can...and pray for god and every bady will get answer in positive........
Thankss again...to all and benifa

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:08 pm

I sympathise with you umalig.

I believe that your son not being recognised as an Irish citizen is unlawful, though I am not an expert. I see nowhere in the legislation posted in the link above, nor anywhere else on the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service website, that periods spent in Ireland as a student on a student visa are not considered as lawful residence. Perhaps someone else can confirm.

Regarding your son getting a Lithuanian passport. I'm assuming that he is a Lithuanian citizen by decent, passed on by his mother as she is a Lithuanian citizen at the time of your son's birth. I am not sure of this because I am in no way familiar with Lithuanian legislation on this matter, however I'm pretty sure that this should be the case. In order to get a Lithuanian passport, does your son and your wife really have to go to Lithuania? Surely this can be obtained from the Lithuanian embassy in Dublin?

I must stress that regardless of your son's nationality, it is very likely that residence for yourself will be refused by the DoJ because you have not previously lived in another EU country with your wife / son. I know that you are concerned that, as a direct result the the DoJ's unlawful interpretation of EU Directive 2004/38/EC, you are being put in a position that makes it unlawful for you to work and thus provide for your young family. This is why I am suggesting to you the idea of applying for a UK EEA Family Permit at the British embassy in Dublin and moving (at least for 6 months) to Northern Ireland. Understandably, you may find the idea of uplifting the three of you and moving (effectively) to another country may be daunting, but it's really not too far away and you will at least be legally resident and able to earn an honest crust to support your wife and child. All the best to you, umalig. :)

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Post by yankeegirl » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:57 pm

I see nowhere in the legislation posted in the link above, nor anywhere else on the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service website, that periods spent in Ireland as a student on a student visa are not considered as lawful residence. Perhaps someone else can confirm.
I'll try to find the link some time, but I do remember reading somewhere that , as far as nationality is concerned, though the student is legally in Ireland, time spent as a student would not count towards the 3 years residence needed for the child of said student to be an Irish citizen.

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:11 am

"Persons born after 1st January 2005
An application for citizenship can be made if at the time of birth that person had a parent who was:
- an Irish citizen or entitled to be an Irish citizen
- A person who is not Irish but who has been legally resident in Ireland for 3 out of the 4 years immediately preceding the birth of their child
Note: time spent as asylum seeker, student or undocumented does not count "

Taken from the Migrants Rights Centre Ireland site.
http://www.mrci.ie/know_rights/legalsta ... idency.htm

umalig
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thanks to yankeegirl, benifa

Post by umalig » Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:30 am

yes you both are right ...yes we ask to lithunain emmbassy in dublin about my son passport they are saying it will take 4 to 6 months to get my son passport..if my wife go to her country she will get in 2 weeks..so that why iam sending them over there...
I just wana to quote ths news here

A spokeswoman for the Department of Justice said all non-EU spouses who failed to satisfy SI 656 would get "Section 3" letters.

Those who had been in the country legally at the time of their wedding could "contact their local immigration office with a view to regularising their status in the State by renewing their original permission to remain".

Those who were here illegally when they married, however, "are unlawfully present here". They could make representations to the Minister to be allowed to stay on humanitarian grounds.
© 2007 The Irish Times
And i go to my local immigration office and they did not Rigstered me as a student bec i get again admission in college and they did not gave to me is there anyway to get back my student status......?

How can i apply for a UK EEA Family Permit at the British embassy in Dublin and moving (at least for 6 months) to Northern Ireland. What is the process..bec now i donot have student visa so how they can gave me visa to live northen ireland....?if i will get i will move over there with my family........bec there is no other option............

Thanks again friends for your greatfull help.........

yankeegirl
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Post by yankeegirl » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:23 am


How can i apply for a UK EEA Family Permit at the British embassy in Dublin and moving (at least for 6 months) to Northern Ireland.
You will have to try to get your student visa again to have proof of legal residence in Ireland to make the application in Dublin. If you are unable to do so, and have no proof of current legal residence, the UK embassy will not accept the application and you'll have to return to your home country to submit the application. Your wife will have to be intending to exercise a treaty right such as working. As she is from one of the newer EU states, she will have to register for the Workers Registration Scheme in the UK for the first 12 months. The applications are free of charge.

umalig
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thanks to all..

Post by umalig » Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:58 pm

Hi to All

I read every thing and try to understand as well..so wut i will do i will wait for my decision from Doj.....and if i get NO....i have laywer as well then i will go to High court.........i wish it will help for me for my son......bec i love my small family and every bady love his 1 son....he so sweet just like mother and me..anyway.......i will fight till end..if i wana go to Eu court i will go.......and pray for me and for all other as well.....
any suggestion how i will do this plzz let me now bec i am not going to north ireland etc ..i like ur ideaa but it very hard for me to move family 1 place 2 another bec we have very good job etc..house

Ben
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Re: thanks to all..

Post by Ben » Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:11 pm

umalig, may I ask, what country are you a citizen of?

umalig
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hellooo

Post by umalig » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:24 am

i read news that Doj issue 120 deportation letter did any bady get these letter bec they post these letter 10-9-2007..i did not get any letter so i was thinking did some bady get?

Dimy77
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Post by Dimy77 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:07 am

You ONLY risk receiving that letter if you were ILLEGALLY in the state at the time of your marriage. If you entered the state legally, there is nothing to worry about. And if you were illegal.... well... I think the DoJ is right to send out those letters, people who are illegal know the risks...just getting married doesn't change anything even if it the marriage is for the right reasons.

umalig
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thx

Post by umalig » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:18 am

i will tell in short and tellme plz that i have to worry or no..i came in ireland 2003 sept as a student ...and 2006 june i visa expired and i get married 7 july....after 6 days when my visa expired....and i was legal 3 years.....and now i have a son 9 months he born in ireland galway i know he will be not irish but in 1 years he will be irish bec his mother she is here for last 2 years alomost and working as well...thx

umalig
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important

Post by umalig » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:11 am

New threat to status of non-EU spouses

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Heavy hand of the law
Friday August 31 2007


AN Indian refugee whose Irish marriage to an Estonian has prompted an investigation into the country's immigration laws by the European Commission, has been branded "deceitful and dishonest" by the High Court.


Sandeep Kumar's failed legal action has resulted in 120 non-Irish married couples being served with notices of intention to deport their non-EU spouses.

He has also been accused by the government of mounting an elaborate plan to thwart and bypass the immigration laws of this country.

Court documents signed by a senior government official have revealed that Mr Kumar, an asylum seeker who was refused residency in Belgium and had lived illegally in the United Kingdom, told immigration officials that he first came to Europe via Moscow and Belarus and "did not know" how he was brought to Ireland.

Mr Kumar -- who later withdrew his asylum application and sought residency because he married an EU citizen here -- was subsequently denied residency because he did not submit evidence to the Irish government that he had lived legally in the EU.

Injunction

Mr Kumar is trying to injunct the Government from deporting him back to Belgium.

The High Court ruling, which has been appealed to the Supreme Court, may potentially affect hundreds of non-Irish married couples who are living in the country.

This is because the High Court ruled that the Department of Justice had the right to insist that wives or husbands of non-Irish EU citizens, who were not from the EU themselves, must live legally in another member state before moving to Ireland.

The new laws were introduced to give effect to a mandatory EU directive aimed at removing red tape for EU citizens and allowing them to travel and work more freely within the 27 EU member states and four other nations.

The EU directive, transposed by the Irish government last April, was designed to give greater legal protection to EU citizens and their families and restrict member countries from refusing entry or right of residence to non-EU spouses and family members.

But when the Irish government gave effect to the directive, it stipulated that all non-EU spouses must prove they were previously legally resident in the EU, leaving hundreds of non-nationals married to EU citizens in legal limbo and under threat of deportation.

'Marriages of convenience' designed to undermine the integrity of the Irish immigration system heavily influenced legislators given the task of transposing the EU directive.

Deportation

The issuing of notices of deportation to couples who had been married in Ireland -- some 120 since the directive took effect -- has angered immigrant's rights groups.

But the Department of Justice insists that following the Kumar ruling, it is entitled to issue the letters to those who were here illegally when they were married and deport non-EU spouses.

Some 3,000 applications for residency have been lodged with the department since the directive took effect and 1,800 have been processed so far.

Of that number, 860 have been granted residency whilst another 840 people who had lived legally in Ireland -- such as people on a student visa -- were denied residency but were allowed to remain in Ireland under their original status.

The Justice Department says only a small proportion of non-nationals -- 120 who were living here illegally -- were issued with Section 3 letters.

The section 3 letters give those under threat of deportation three options: to leave voluntarily; to agree to be deported; or to make representations to stay in Ireland temporarily within 15 days.

Officials told the Irish Independent that Justice Minister Brian Lenihan has no intention of placing a stay on the issuing of letters or deportations pending the outcome of the Supreme Court appeal and says it has received no formal notice from the European Commission.

But last night the European Commission confirmed it is drafting a letter of formal notice to the Irish government -- the opening gambit in lengthy infringement proceedings against EU member states -- following hundreds of complaints by non-Irish married couples living here

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