NATURALIZATION FOR NON EEA

[SAORI1318]

Hello every one
I am a non eea married abroad in february 2010 with my irish husband. He is a dual national because he was born in north of Ireland and could hold both passports. At that moment he decided to start all the process under the european law so i was granted family permit and i started living in the uk since april 2010. He was living here before for more than 20 years with a permanent job. As soon as i arrived here we started the process for the RC and got it by the 6 of october 2010 expiration day 6 october 2015.

We were told that the five years periud were completed the the 2 of abril 2015 ( because i enter to this country the 2of april 2010) but due i was out of the country in april and may this year i applied for the permanent resident card the 5 july 2015. The biometrics were taken, the fee was taken, but i still do not received the COA. As far as we know this process will take 6 months minimum but that is not 100% sure.

The thing is that if i continue under the european regulation i will have to wait until 2 of april 2016 to apply for naturalization, so the questions are?

CAN I APPLY FOR NATURALIZATION NOW USING MY HUSBAND BRITISH NATIONALITY OR THEY CAN REFUSED ON ANY GROUNDS?

DUE THAT I HAVE ALREADY STARTED THE PROCESS FOR THE PERMANENT RESIDENCE CARD THAT COULD CAUSE ANY INTERFERENCE IN THE NATURALIZATION PROCESS? WOULD THEY REFUSE IT AND SAY : WAIT UNTIL I FINISH AND THEN APPLY FOR BC?


I ask all this in order to save time, as explained before i still do not received the COA for my application for the permanent residence card so that is worryng us, there is a possibility that this process takes long as in other cases. And as we read in previous post the PR IS GAINED AUTOMATICALLY, but its better to do it in order to avoid problems when you are travelling and also as a prof you are living here legally, but even if you do not apply for it you still have to wait one year to apply for BC, so based on this are the questions i asking.
thanks in advance for your answer.

[noajthan]

Hello every one
I am a non eea married abroad in february 2010 with my irish husband. He is a dual national because he was born in north of Ireland and could hold both passports. At that moment he decided to start all the process under the european law so i was granted family permit and i started living in the uk since april 2010. He was living here before for more than 20 years with a permanent job. As soon as i arrived here we started the process for the RC and got it by the 6 of october 2010 expiration day 6 october 2015.

We were told that the five years periud were completed the the 2 of abril 2015 ( because i enter to this country the 2of april 2010) but due i was out of the country in april and may this year i applied for the permanent resident card the 5 july 2015. The biometrics were taken, the fee was taken, but i still do not received the COA. As far as we know this process will take 6 months minimum but that is not 100% sure.

The thing is that if i continue under the european regulation i will have to wait until 2 of april 2016 to apply for naturalization, so the questions are?

CAN I APPLY FOR NATURALIZATION NOW USING MY HUSBAND BRITISH NATIONALITY OR THEY CAN REFUSED ON ANY GROUNDS?

DUE THAT I HAVE ALREADY STARTED THE PROCESS FOR THE PERMANENT RESIDENCE CARD THAT COULD CAUSE ANY INTERFERENCE IN THE NATURALIZATION PROCESS? WOULD THEY REFUSE IT AND SAY : WAIT UNTIL I FINISH AND THEN APPLY FOR BC?


I ask all this in order to save time, as explained before i still do not received the COA for my application for the permanent residence card so that is worryng us, there is a possibility that this process takes long as in other cases. And as we read in previous post the PR IS GAINED AUTOMATICALLY, but its better to do it in order to avoid problems when you are travelling and also as a prof you are living here legally, but even if you do not apply for it you still have to wait one year to apply for BC, so based on this are the questions i asking.
thanks in advance for your answer.

Q1 Yes as you are married to a BC there is no need to hold your settled status for 12 months before applying to naturalise;
(assuming all other naturalisation requirements will be met, including that you do have settled status).

Q2 No, no connection between having a PR card & naturalisation.
Although having the optional PR card (assuming you have acquired PR) may help slightly & may simplify slightly the documentary evidence that is needed to be submitted for naturalisation.

Good luck.

[SAORI1318]

thank you very much for your reply,

So according of what you are saying , even i started all the process under the european law and now i want to get naturalisation under the british law the home office wont refused my application saying thta i must finish under the european law?

BY the other hand all the documents like letter of the employer of my husband , and his and mine page slips, p60, p45, bank staments, and all the evidence that we have to probe that we are exercising our rights here and also that we are living together are at the home office at the moment ( were sent in july with the ee4 application) , so Do i have to request the originals back in order to send all these again with the naturalisation application?

thanks in advance for your answer

[noajthan]

thank you very much for your reply,

So according of what you are saying , even i started all the process under the european law and now i want to get naturalisation under the british law the home office wont refused my application saying thta i must finish under the european law?

BY the other hand all the documents like letter of the employer of my husband , and his and mine page slips, p60, p45, bank staments, and all the evidence that we have to probe that we are exercising our rights here and also that we are living together are at the home office at the moment ( were sent in july with the ee4 application) , so Do i have to request the originals back in order to send all these again with the naturalisation application?

thanks in advance for your answer

What I said (or meant) is:
1) once you have settled status you don't need to wait 12 months before applying to naturalise as you have BC spouse.

And 2) you don't need a PR card to naturalise , although it helps as evidence.

The complication for you is PR card application is currently underway. All your evidence needed to support naturalisation is currently lodged in HO.

It may well be a different unit that processes naturalisations compared to EU rules-related work.

You might have to withdraw your PR application to get your documents back.

What's the rush?
Especially as a PR card helps towards naturalisation. UK is not leaving EU this year (if at all!).

If you did get the docs back wihout withdrawing the PR application I guess you probably could submit your naturalisation application.
I think this because they're not really connected & maybe handled by different teams.

[SAORI1318]

thanks for your reply again
I have read in another website that may the reason why my COA is not arriving on time is because my application is being delayed due that i applied for the PR before the 5 years. I previously explained you that i got a family permit in march 2010 while i was abroad which starting day the first day of april 2010.

I arrived to the UK the 2- 04- 2015 to live wiht my husband who was living here for more that 20 years and working continuously. The same month in order to save time we sent the application for EEA2 which was granted the 6-10-2010 until 6-10-2015.
As far as we understand after read in all in the websites and ask for advice that the five years were completed the 2-04-2015 not the 6-10-2015. I applied the 3 of july only because i was abroad april and may and i took all june for joining all the documents to send to the home office.
-So would i have waited until after the 6-10-15 to apply? When is exactly the 5 years of exercising treaty rights?

I also was reading that (in case i decided to apply for naturalisation under the european law) the year holding permanent residence would start being counted since the day that is issue the biometric card, so if they issue the biometric the 15-12-2015 I will be able to apply for naturalisation the 15-12-16. if this correct? because i was assuming that the 6 year would be the 2-04-2016 or in the worst of the cases the 6-10-2016.

[noajthan]

thanks for your reply again
I have read in another website that may the reason why my COA is not arriving on time is because my application is being delayed due that i applied for the PR before the 5 years. I previously explained you that i got a family permit in march 2010 while i was abroad which starting day the first day of april 2010.

I arrived to the UK the 2- 04- 2015 to live wiht my husband who was living here for more that 20 years and working continuously. The same month in order to save time we sent the application for EEA2 which was granted the 6-10-2010 until 6-10-2015.
As far as we understand after read in all in the websites and ask for advice that the five years were completed the 2-04-2015 not the 6-10-2015. I applied the 3 of july only because i was abroad april and may and i took all june for joining all the documents to send to the home office.
-So would i have waited until after the 6-10-15 to apply? When is exactly the 5 years of exercising treaty rights?

I also was reading that (in case i decided to apply for naturalisation under the european law) the year holding permanent residence would start being counted since the day that is issue the biometric card, so if they issue the biometric the 15-12-2015 I will be able to apply for naturalisation the 15-12-16. if this correct? because i was assuming that the 6 year would be the 2-04-2016 or in the worst of the cases the 6-10-2016.

My understanding is a RC is not a visa.
It is just an optional card that confirms your status.
The RC doesn't grant your status, it's just useful to prove it to any one who needs to know.

My understanding is your status in UK depends on when you entered the UK & also on the status of your spouse, ie the sponsor exercising treaty rights.
I think you mean you entered UK in April 2010 so it appears the clock started in April 2010.

About naturalisation, not sure which BRP card you mean.
My understanding is the clock depends on physical presence in UK, and if you depend on a sponsor it depends on your sponsor as well.
If applying as a family member (eg spouse) it obviously depends on date of marriage too.

If HO have any queries about your case they will surely contact you.
If your case was an outright refusal surely they would simply write & inform you (rather than delaying a response).

From posts on the forum it appears COAs & applications are generally taking a long time to be processed. You could subscribe to a timeline thread to track timelines.

[noajthan]

See https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-resid ... d/overview

You may be able to apply for a residence card if you’re from outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and you’re the family member, or extended family member, of an EEA national.

You don’t need to apply for a residence card as a family member but it can:

• help you re-enter the country more quickly and easily if you travel abroad
  show employers you’re allowed to work in the UK
  help prove you qualify for certain benefits and services

The Gov UK website is quite clear: a family member doesn't need a RC.
So PR cannot depend directly on the date of any RC.

[noajthan]

thanks for your reply again
I have read in another website that may the reason why my COA is not arriving on time...

...

... so if they issue the biometric the 15-12-2015 I will be able to apply for naturalisation the 15-12-16. if this correct? because i was assuming that the 6 year would be the 2-04-2016 or in the worst of the cases the 6-10-2016.

You can get an idea of timelines for COA & PR card here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 7-100.html

As you are married to a BC don't forget you don't need to wait 12 months with PR/settled status before applying to naturalise (once you have docs available to support application).

[secret.simon]

A lot of the dual Irish/British citizens on these forums had explicitly renounced their British citizenship in order to exercise their treaty rights, which, by definition, cannot be exercised against the country of which your are a citizen. You exercise rights in those countries as a citizen, not treaty rights.

I think that the delays about the PR card are being caused by the fact that as your husband is a dual Irish/British citizen (whether or not he holds both passports), it is not entirely certain as to whether he could exercise treaty rights in the UK between 2010 and 2015 (after 2015, it is explicitly excluded by the McCarthy ruling). The Master Nationality Rule (which is more an FCO matter than a Home Office matter) would mean that as a citizen of the UK, while he is within the UK, he is treated as solely British. There has been some chat on these forums about the unique status of NI residents and the Good Friday Agreement allowing residents to hold either or both citizenships without regards to the law, but it is not entirely certain as to how the Home Office sees the matter.

The above is an explanation for the delay.

As the spouse of a British citizen, you would have the right to apply for naturalisation straightaway. But given the complexity of your situation, I would suggest waiting for the PR card before applying. The complexity may cause a longer than normal wait for the naturalisation. And there is a lot more money at stake (almost £1000 for naturalisation vs £65 for PR card).

[noajthan]

A lot of the dual Irish/British citizens on these forums had explicitly renounced their British citizenship in order to exercise their treaty rights, which, by definition, cannot be exercised against the country of which your are a citizen. You exercise rights in those countries as a citizen, not treaty rights.

I think that the delays about the PR card are being caused by the fact that as your husband is a dual Irish/British citizen (whether or not he holds both passports), it is not entirely certain as to whether he could exercise treaty rights in the UK between 2010 and 2015 (after 2015, it is explicitly excluded by the McCarthy ruling). The Master Nationality Rule (which is more an FCO matter than a Home Office matter) would mean that as a citizen of the UK, while he is within the UK, he is treated as solely British. There has been some chat on these forums about the unique status of NI residents and the Good Friday Agreement allowing residents to hold either or both citizenships without regards to the law, but it is not entirely certain as to how the Home Office sees the matter.

The above is an explanation for the delay.

...

Sound and sage advice.

I believe it is Interesting and pertinent to note OP is already at play within the EU framework having had a Family Permit & RC issued by HO.

Hopefully the McCarthy transitional arrangements will apply in this case and so the dual-national sponsor/spouse will continue to be treated as an EEA national;
ie due to the acquisition of FP & RC prior to critical transitional dates in July/October 2012.

(My previous posts on this case were based on this assumption having noted the timeline as described).

Ref: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made
- see appendix section 2. 3. a)

[noajthan]

An example of the McCarthy transitional arrangements in practice:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... 51874.html

[martin54]

You already made a mistake for applying for PR instead of naturalisation. You should have apply for nationalisation straight away as your husband is BC. My case was similar like yours and when i read the requirements from the Gov and in this forum and i just applied straight for BC. it took me 5 months to get approval and i already got my BC passport now. However, you can still call for your documents and loose 65 pounds, then arrange all your documents properly to apply for nationalisation because the time you will wait for PR will be the same time for BC or early than PR depends.Anyway it up to you to make decision of what to do.

I wish you good luck.

[shafiqs2007]

Please Please Please help me:

I need some help with my application and shall be grateful if somebody help me with.
I am a Non EEA who received his PR on 19 January 2015. My wife is Dutch but she only has got certificate of registration which was issued on July 2009 which has no ending date. Both of us have been in employment since 2009 but also claimed housing and council tax benefits. My questions are:
1- Can I apply for British nationality on the basis that I have my PR card for one year regardless of that my wife doesn't have?
2- Do I have to send my 1 year p60 or last six years?
3 Do I have to send my wife P60s and passport or is not required?
4. Does claiming benefit will have any impact on the outcome of my application because my name was added in the benefit from 2011?
5- What documents I submit with my application please?
I shall appreciate if somebody send me an email to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and thank you so much for you guys who sincerely devote their time to help others. God bless!
Note As this is a public forum, I have removed all personal identifying details from your post so as to maintain your privacy & security.

Ref forum T&Cs (click)
- Board Moderator

[shafiqs2007]

Please Please Please help me:

I need some help with my application and shall be grateful if somebody help me with.
I am a Non EEA who received his PR on 19 January 2015. My wife is Dutch but she only has got certificate of registration which was issued on July 2009 which has no ending date. Both of us have been in employment since 2009 but also claimed housing and council tax benefits. My questions are:
1- Can I apply for British nationality on the basis that I have my PR card for one year regardless of that my wife doesn't have?
2- Do I have to send my 1 year p60 or last six years?
3 Do I have to send my wife P60s and passport or is not required?
4. Does claiming benefit will have any impact on the outcome of my application because my name was added in the benefit from 2011?
5- What documents I submit with my application please?
I shall appreciate if somebody send me an email to xxxxxxxxxxxxx and thank you so much for you guys who sincerely devote their time to help others. God bless!

Note As this is a public forum, I have removed all personal identifying details from your post so as to maintain your privacy & security.

Ref forum T&Cs (click)
- Board Moderator

[noajthan]

Please Please Please help me:

I need some help with my application and shall be grateful if somebody help me with.
I am a Non EEA who received his PR on 19 January 2015. My wife is Dutch but she only has got certificate of registration which was issued on July 2009 which has no ending date. Both of us have been in employment since 2009 but also claimed housing and council tax benefits. My questions are:
1- Can I apply for British nationality on the basis that I have my PR card for one year regardless of that my wife doesn't have?
2- Do I have to send my 1 year p60 or last six years?
3 Do I have to send my wife P60s and passport or is not required?
4. Does claiming benefit will have any impact on the outcome of my application because my name was added in the benefit from 2011?
5- What documents I submit with my application please?
I shall appreciate if somebody send me an email to xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and thank you so much for you guys who sincerely devote their time to help others. God bless!

Note As this is a public forum, I have removed all personal identifying details from your post so as to maintain your privacy & security.

Ref forum T&Cs (click)
- Board Moderator

1) Yes you can as you have settled status (PR) & if you have held it for 12 months already.

You say you have - but then again you say you only acquired PR in January, 2015.
Which one is it?
If you have not had settled status (held PR) for 12 months you will have to wait until Jan 2016.

Start with forum FAQS:
british-citizenship/citizenship-faqs-co ... 95747.html

2), 3), 5)
See AN form & associated guidance & booklet (from Gov UK website):
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... en-form-an

4) Should be ok as long as you were entitled to claim benefits at the time.

The guide & booklet should answer most of your questions to get you started.

PS Probably not a good idea to include your mail address in a public forum.