British citizenship -retain worker status in treaty rights

[Condor82]

Hi guys

I trust that you are well

I have a doubt about the "retaining worker status for European citizens" clauses (I have enclosed them below my message for a better understanding) and I kindly need your help.

-In those clauses (please read those clauses below my message) I do not understand if "1 year of employment or less than 1 year of employment" refers from my first entry in UK or from only my previous job before becoming unemployed.

Please help me understand if I did not lose worker status during the time I was jobless:

I'm Italian and I have been living in London since June 2009, therefore 6 years and 4 months.
In September of 2009 I started working and I had various jobs until part of 2011 when my contract was not renewed by my employer, therefore so to support myself from part of 2011/2012 I applied for JSA and housing benefits for more than 1 year. From June 2012 to April 2013 I have been working for other companies and in April 2013 again my contract was not renewed.
I supported myself with my savings but had no luck applying for other jobs so unluckily I had to be again on JSA (but no housing benefits) from July 2013 to January 2015.
Now I'm working since February 2015.
During my periods as jobseeker I signed every week, attended all the courses to improve my chances to get a job and never had a problem with the job center because I was actively looking for a job and showing them proof.

I'd like to be sure I did not lose the worker status because having already passed The Life In the Uk and English language tests I would like to apply for naturalisation and become a UK citizen

-Could you please tell me if during the period of unemployment I was exercising my treaty rights for 5 continuous years as European and that means that I did not lose the worker status?
The requirement for Europeans applying for UK citizenship is having 5 continuous years of treaty rights and you can lose them if you do not have qualified status or worker status, that's why I am concerned about the worker status.

I dunno if it can be of any help but my national insurance record says that I currently have 7 qualifying years up to 5 April 2015 and that I paid Nics at class 1 from 2009, except (2011-2012 but in this period I have 52 NI credits)

Please let me know if I retained the worker status and therefore If I can apply for the citizenship without fearing my application might be rejected.

Thank you for your time and consideration,

Kind regards,

Jack

------------------------------------------
CLAUSES:

Under revised regulation 6(2)(b), an EEA national who is no longer working shall not cease to be treated as worker, where they are in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having being employed for at least one year, and where they meet the following conditions:

 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and

 the EEA national entered the UK in order to seek employment or;

 the EEA national is in the UK seeking employment immediately after

being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and

 the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are

seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot retain the status of worker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

10.For example, an EEA national enters the UK as a student and shortly after commences employment. After 13 months he is made redundant and registers his unemployment with Job Centre Plus. Eight months later, he is still seeking work but provides evidence that he has recently undertaken further training which guarantees him a position as an apprentice upon completion of the training course in two months time. In this instance, this would be sufficient to demonstrate that he has provided compelling evidence that he has a genuine chance of being engaged in work.

Retaining worker status following less than one year’s employment

The new requirement at regulation 6(2)(ba) requires that for an EEA national to continue to be treated as a worker where they do not satisfy 6(2)(b) (i.e they were employed for less than one year prior to seeking work) they qualified person must satisfy the following:

 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and

 the EEA national entered the United Kingdom in order to seek employment or;

 is in the UK seeking employment immediately after being aunder regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that he is seeking work and has a genuine chance of being engaged.

12.In addition regulation 6(2A) specifies that persons qualifying under this category may only retain worker status for a maximum of six months. This is regardless of whether they can provide compelling reasons for this. This reflects the fact that persons in this capacity have not been in employment for any significant length of time.

13.For example, an EEA national entered the UK as a worker for four months after which he was made redundant. He registers with Job Centre Plus, but after a further six months, has still not obtained any employment. In this instance, the EEA national would not be able to retain his worker status any longer and must either become a qualified person in another capacity (for example as a student or self-sufficient person, but not a jobseeker) or he must leave the UK if he has no other right to reside.

Appeal rights

14.Where any of the above factors are not satisfied, the application should be refused in line with regulation 6(2).

15.All such refusals would attract an in-country right of appeal subject to the restrictions in regulation 26.

[Condor82]

Please anyone that can help?

Thanks

[rooibos]

Salve Condor82,

I'm a fellow Italian.

I have no authoritative answer to your question but I asked a similar one here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/eea-ro ... l#p1246422

See if that helps.

[Condor82]

Hi Rooibos,

Thanks for the link.

Please guys what I need to know is if the "1 year of employment or less than 1 year of employment" refers to the first time I moved in U.K. or starts from when you get unemployed

'Cause I asked for benefits twice during those 6 years but the first time was in 2011 so after I was already living and working for 2 years.

The second time I lost my job after 2 months and i asked for JSA, that's why I need to understand where the 1 or less than 1 year period starts and therefore if I was exercising my treaty rights or not.

Example: I moved in UK in 2009, after 2 years of work in 2011 I was on benefits for 1.2 year, then I worked until 2013 i moved in another company and I lost my job after 3 months. I applied for JSA until January 2015. Now I'm currently working.

[Condor82]

Hi guys

I'm trying to find out if I have acquired permanent residency after 5 continuous years. I moved in UK in 2009 and i'm European.

I was reading the law that I have attached (please see below) and I have few doubts.

I would like to know if in the clause that states "1 year of employment or less than 1 year of employment" refers to the first time I moved in U.K. or starts from when you get unemployed

Because I asked for benefits twice during those 6 years but the first time was in 2011 so after I was already living and working for 2 years.

The second time I lost my job after 2 months and i asked for JSA, that's why I need to understand where the 1 or less than 1 year period starts and therefore if I was exercising my treaty rights or not.

Example: I moved in UK in 2009, after 2 years of work in 2011 I was on benefits for 1.2 year, then I worked until 2013 i moved in another company and I lost my job after 3 months. I applied for JSA until January 2015. Now I'm currently working.

Please let me know,

thank you

kind regards.

J
------------------------------------------
CLAUSES:

Under revised regulation 6(2)(b), an EEA national who is no longer working shall not cease to be treated as worker, where they are in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having being employed for at least one year, and where they meet the following conditions:

 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and

 the EEA national entered the UK in order to seek employment or;

 the EEA national is in the UK seeking employment immediately after

being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and

 the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are

seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot retain the status of worker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

10.For example, an EEA national enters the UK as a student and shortly after commences employment. After 13 months he is made redundant and registers his unemployment with Job Centre Plus. Eight months later, he is still seeking work but provides evidence that he has recently undertaken further training which guarantees him a position as an apprentice upon completion of the training course in two months time. In this instance, this would be sufficient to demonstrate that he has provided compelling evidence that he has a genuine chance of being engaged in work.

Retaining worker status following less than one year’s employment

The new requirement at regulation 6(2)(ba) requires that for an EEA national to continue to be treated as a worker where they do not satisfy 6(2)(b) (i.e they were employed for less than one year prior to seeking work) they qualified person must satisfy the following:

 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and

 the EEA national entered the United Kingdom in order to seek employment or;

 is in the UK seeking employment immediately after being aunder regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that he is seeking work and has a genuine chance of being engaged.

12.In addition regulation 6(2A) specifies that persons qualifying under this category may only retain worker status for a maximum of six months. This is regardless of whether they can provide compelling reasons for this. This reflects the fact that persons in this capacity have not been in employment for any significant length of time.

13.For example, an EEA national entered the UK as a worker for four months after which he was made redundant. He registers with Job Centre Plus, but after a further six months, has still not obtained any employment. In this instance, the EEA national would not be able to retain his worker status any longer and must either become a qualified person in another capacity (for example as a student or self-sufficient person, but not a jobseeker) or he must leave the UK if he has no other right to reside.

[Kmaj007]

Well the links you posted clearly suggests that you are eligible for Residency, you have worked two years after arrival, so basically you've fulfilled the accord of your entrance, as it states even if you are on JSA you can apply for residency, i think its green signal as far i've understood it.

Do get a professional advise, SABZ solicitor in Manchester are brilliant

[Condor82]

Hi Not me again,

Thanks for your message.

My concern is because I have been on JSA twice and for more than 6 months.

So I do not understand if the requirement of "working 1 year or less than 1 year" is from the beginning of my stay in UK (and in this case I would be fine for the 2 times I have been on JSA because I worked the first 2 years) or if this period starts for the second time from when I lost my job, that time I worked only 3 months.
(if you work less than 1 year you can't be on benefits for more than 6 months according to the law, that's why my concern)

Please let me know guys what you think.

Thanks in advance

[Condor82]

My situation:

Italian living in UK since June 2009, always been working except for the period between
- February 2011-May 2012
-July 2013 -January 2015

Because I was on JSA after being made redundant twice.

Now I'd like to apply for naturalisation, I passed the life in the UK test and the test about the English language.

Do you think my application will be rejected when it comes to exercising 5 continuous years of treaty rights?

Please help me understand the law (below)according to my situation and let me know If in your opinion I can apply without my application being rejected.

Kind regards and many thanks!
------------------------------------------------------
THE LAW:
European Operational Policy Team Jobseekers and retention of ‘worker’ status 01 January 2014
03/2014
1. This notice provides guidance to decision makers on how to consider applications from EEA nationals who are jobseekers or who are in involuntarily unemployment following a period of employment and are seeking to retain „worker‟ status in line with regulation 6(2) of the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 (“the Regulations”).
Background
2. TheImmigration(EuropeanEconomicArea)(Amendment)(No.2)Regulations 2013 came into force on 01 January 2014 and impose new qualifying criteria which an EEA national must satisfy in order to be exercising Treaty rights as a jobseeker. The amendment also incorporates the Upper Tier Tribunal judgment of Shabani (EEA – jobseekers; nursery education) [2013] UKUT 00315 (IAC) into the Regulations at regulation 6(5)(b).
3. This applies to all decisions made on or after 01 January 2014.
Jobseekers status
4. The Home Office has to-date interpreted regulation 6(2) to mean that jobseeker status only applies „on-entry‟; meaning that a person can only be a jobseeker for the period after which they enter the UK in search of work, but before they are first employed. The Home Office has not to-date regarded those people who have worked in the UK and who voluntarily leave employment but then seek work again, as jobseekers.
5. Following the Upper Tribunal case of Shabani, this position has changed and it is now the case that someone who voluntarily leaves employment, without retaining worker status, can revert to being a jobseeker without needing to leave and re-enter the UK, provided they are genuinely seeking employment and have a real chance of being engaged.
6. Regulation 6(4) of the Regulations amends the definition of „jobseeker‟ in line with Shabani. A jobseeker is now defined as a person who:
 entered the United Kingdom in order to seek employment or
 is in the UK seeking employment immediately after being a qualified
person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and
 can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.
7. An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot continue to be regarded as a jobseeker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged. See paragraph 8 of this notice for an example of this.
Retaining worker status following employment of at least one year’s duration
8. Under revised regulation 6(2)(b), an EEA national who is no longer working shall not cease to be treated as worker, where they are in duly recorded involuntary unemployment after having being employed for at least one year, and where they meet the following conditions:
 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and
 the EEA national entered the UK in order to seek employment or;
 the EEA national is in the UK seeking employment immediately after
being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and
 the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are
seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.
9. An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot retain the status of worker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.
10.For example, an EEA national enters the UK as a student and shortly after commences employment. After 13 months he is made redundant and registers his unemployment with Job Centre Plus. Eight months later, he is still seeking work but provides evidence that he has recently undertaken further training which guarantees him a position as an apprentice upon completion of the training course in two months time. In this instance, this would be sufficient to demonstrate that he has provided compelling evidence that he has a genuine chance of being engaged in work.
Retaining worker status following less than one year’s employment
11.The new requirement at regulation 6(2)(ba) requires that for an EEA national to continue to be treated as a worker where they do not satisfy 6(2)(b) (i.e they were employed for less than one year prior to seeking work) they must satisfy the following:
 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant employment office; and
 the EEA national entered the United Kingdom in order to seek employment or;
 is in the UK seeking employment immediately after being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and
 the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that he is seeking work and has a genuine chance of being engaged.
12.In addition regulation 6(2A) specifies that persons qualifying under this category may only retain worker status for a maximum of six months. This is regardless of whether they can provide compelling reasons for this. This reflects the fact that persons in this capacity have not been in employment for any significant length of time.
13.For example, an EEA national entered the UK as a worker for four months after which he was made redundant. He registers with Job Centre Plus, but after a further six months, has still not obtained any employment. In this instance, the EEA national would not be able to retain his worker status any longer and must either become a qualified person in another capacity (for example as a student or self-sufficient person, but not a jobseeker) or he must leave the UK if he has no other right to reside.
Appeal rights
14.Where any of the above factors are not satisfied, the application should be refused in line with regulation 6(2).
15.All such refusals would attract an in-country right of appeal subject to the restrictions in regulation 26.
16.If you have any queries about this notice, please contact <REDACTED – section 40(2)> on <REDACTED – section 40(2)>, or email the European Operational Policy Mailbox at EuropeanOperational@UKBA.gsi.gov.uk
<REDACTED – section 40(2)>
Head of European Operational Policy 01 January 2014

[Casa]

Crikey! Are you asking members to wade through all that? Do you have a PR card? You now need one when applying for British citizenship.
Please don't post the same question multiple times.

[Condor82]

Hi guys,

Quick questions: When it comes to submitting original documents does that imply that I also need to send my passport? (I need it for work- related reasons).

Is it possible to certify at the council a copy of my passport and other documents by showing them the originals so I can just send the copies?

Also when it comes to JSA rejection emails I'd like to show to describe the period when I was jobless, can I just print them?

Please let me know if that's possible and if there are offices that can help me.

Many thanks!

[noajthan]

Hi guys,

Quick questions: When it comes to submitting original documents does that imply that I also need to send my passport? (I need it for work- related reasons).

Is it possible to certify at the council a copy of my passport and other documents by showing them the originals so I can just send the copies?

Also when it comes to JSA rejection emails I'd like to show to describe the period when I was jobless, can I just print them?

Please let me know if that's possible and if there are offices that can help me.

Many thanks!

Application must be made by post, there is no office to go to.

As per HO guidance:

Unless otherwise stated, please send original documents only. Photocopies are not acceptable. If you’re unable to send the original, please explain why. We’re unlikely to be able to approve your application without sight of the original document.

Ref: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... nts_v1.pdf

[Condor82]

Hi guys, just a quick question;

I'm filling the form EEA (PR) and at page 47 they ask me what I was doing in the previous 5 years' time.

When I moved in UK at the beginning (like 90% of people) I was looking for a job (without claiming benefits) and I was self sufficient by using money (mainly cash) I saved from previous jobs in my country (Then after 2 years I claimed benefits when I was terminated but that's another story)

I have no idea if I have to write "looking for a job" or "self sufficient" and I know that if I write self sufficient they want proof how much I had and I do not have any proof especially because I had cash and when I was renting a room in London I used to pay in cash the landlord without him giving me any receipt or proof of payment.

On the other hand if I write looking for a job maybe the Home Office might think I did not have money enough and that I was not qualified.

I'm stuck in this dilemma. Please can you help me?

Many thanks

J

[noajthan]

Hi guys, just a quick question;

I'm filling the form EEA (PR) and at page 47 they ask me what I was doing in the previous 5 years' time.

When I moved in UK at the beginning (like 90% of people) I was looking for a job (without claiming benefits) and I was self sufficient by using money (mainly cash) I saved from previous jobs in my country (Then after 2 years I claimed benefits when I was terminated but that's another story)

I have no idea if I have to write "looking for a job" or "self sufficient" and I know that if I write self sufficient they want proof how much I had and I do not have any proof especially because I had cash and when I was renting a room in London I used to pay in cash the landlord without him giving me any receipt or proof of payment.

On the other hand if I write looking for a job maybe the Home Office might think I did not have money enough and that I was not qualified.

I'm stuck in this dilemma. Please can you help me?

Many thanks

J

Whichever type of qualified person you were at the time you will need to provide adequate documentary supporting evidence to back your case that you have been exercising treaty rights continuously in UK for 5 years.

For 'self-sufficiency' that will have to include evidence that you held CSI.

For 'jobseeker' you will need to show you were registered & actively seeking work.

This HO guidance on qualified persons will help get you up to speed:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _clean.pdf

[Condor82]

Thanks for your reply.

Being Italian I have EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) issued by my country.

Is that valid as proof?

Also in the periods I was not working I was living with the saving of my previous jobs, does that means that I can state in the form that I was self sufficient?

Please let me know,

Many thanks.

[noajthan]

Thanks for your reply.

Being Italian I have EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) issued by my country.

Is that valid as proof?

Also in the periods I was not working I was living with the saving of my previous jobs, does that means that I can state in the form that I was self sufficient?

Please let me know,

Many thanks.

EHIC should be accepted as an alternative to CSI as you had the foresight to get one issued from your country.

As a self-sufficient qualified person, you will need other supporting evidence too, to demonstrate self-sufficiency.

For example, you will have to show you weren't a burden on the state (public funds).

[Condor82]

Hi guys,

Please I need your help and expertise.

I'm Italian and I have been living in the UK since June 2009.

I have already passed the Life in The UK and English tests because my aim was to apply for citizenship but because recently the law changed in February of this year I had to apply for the EEA PR first.

Today I received my documents back and my application was refused.

This is because I explained them in my cover letter that I was made redundant twice and I claimed JSA from February 2011 to May 2012 and from July 2013 to January 2015. I'm currently working again since February 2015.

I know it's a long period of unemployment but I was actively looking for a job in these periods (in my field that is IT and also in call centers) and I was just really unlucky and therefore I provided HomeOffice with more than 100 pages of emails with invitation to interviews, second, third, fourth stage interviews and refusals, but apparently it did not help. I have emails covering almost every month.

This is what they wrote to me:

Your application has been considered and the following has been ascertained from the evidence provided:

Correspondence from Department for Work and Pension (DWP) confirms that you have been a jobseeker for a period exceeding 91 days on at least 2 occasions and as confirmed by yourself on the application form.

Therefore it has been decided to refuse to issue the confirmation you seek with reference to Regulation 15(1)(a) of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006.

Now, from what I remember if someone claims JSA after more than 1 year of work he should not lose the worker status after 6 months if he has evidence that he might find a job. Well with more than 100 pages I sent to them I have no idea how better show them that I was not wasting my time having promising interviews and that it was not my fault I was made redundant.

If you please check this document https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf

It is written that:

Retaining worker status following employment of at least one year’s duration

8. Under revised regulation 6(2)(b), an EEA national who is no longer working
shall not cease to be treated as worker, where they are in duly recorded
involuntary unemployment after having being employed for at least one year,
and where they meet the following conditions:

 the EEA national has registered as a jobseeker with the relevant
employment office; and
 the EEA national entered the UK in order to seek employment or;
 the EEA national is in the UK seeking employment immediately after
being a qualified person under regulation 6(1)(b)-(e); and
 the EEA national can provide evidence to demonstrate that they are
seeking work and have a genuine chance of being engaged.

9. An EEA national who meets the above conditions cannot retain the status of
worker for longer than six months unless they can provide compelling
evidence that they are seeking work and have a genuine chance of being
engaged.

10.For example, an EEA national enters the UK as a student and shortly after
commences employment. After 13 months he is made redundant and
registers his unemployment with Job Centre Plus. Eight months later, he is
still seeking work but provides evidence that he has recently undertaken
further training which guarantees him a position as an apprentice upon
completion of the training course in two months time. In this instance, this
would be sufficient to demonstrate that he has provided compelling evidence
that he has a genuine chance of being engaged in work


What can I do guys? Any idea is more than appreciated.

Please let me know,

Many thanks!

J

[noajthan]

HO is playing hardball in this area by extending the scope of its gpow test and backdating it to cover existing JSA beneficiaries:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/benefit ... 4-changes/

[Condor82]

Thanks Noajthan,

Do you mean they cannot do that right?

Any idea about what can I do?

Many thanks

[noajthan]

Thanks Noajthan,

Do you mean they cannot do that right?

Any idea about what can I do?

Many thanks

They are doing it. And making the checks more rigorous. And backdating them.
As per your refusal, you were refused due to a period over 90 days.

Simply submitting a ton of job applications does not necessarily prove a genuine prospect of work (at the time).

What was your qualified person status during other periods of your relevant 5 years timeline?

[Condor82]

Basically I arrived in June 2009 and I started looking for a job. I found a job in September and I have always worked except for the times i was in benefits.

[noajthan]

Basically I arrived in June 2009 and I started looking for a job. I found a job in September and I have always worked except for the times i was in benefits.

You seem to have not satisfied the gpow test.
Were you ever called in for a gpow interview?
Did you undergo any training whilst on the bench?

[Condor82]

Basically I arrived in June 2009 and I started looking for a job. I found a job in September and I have always worked except for the times i was in benefits.

You seem to have not satisfied the gpow test.
Were you ever called in for a gpow interview?
Did you undergo any training whilst on the bench?

I never had any test, I had when required attended A4e (that now I guess it's called PeoplePlus) and they showed me how to write a good cv and few tricks to be successful. Never failed anything because there was nothing to fail, just attend

Maybe that test is something new?
On 9 February 2015, the DWP published DMG Memo 2/15 – Extending GPoW Assessments to Stock EEA Nationals, which advises that the GPoW assessment will be extended to all remaining EEA nationals whose entitlement to JSA(IB) started prior to 1 January 2014. The Memo describes cases that fall within this group as ‘stock cases’.

I closed benefits 2 weeks before, I started to work in the current job the 9 of February 2015

[rooibos]

I'm in a similar situation to the OP. I think that before 2014 you would have retained worker status indefinitely if you had worked for more than a year, which you did.

If you look in the archive I posted a similar question last year. Sorry I'm too tired to look now but I can search later if needed.

[Condor82]

Thanks for your reply,

When I was on benefits I never had or failed assessments and my requirement was proving I was having interviews (showing them contact numbers and emails) that I have always satisfied. Like I said I attended A4e and other local sessions to improve my changes to get employed. They never stopped my benefits in that period so I'm assuming everything was OK.

The first wave of Genuine Prospect of Work interviews took place from 9 May 2015 onwards.

I started working on February 2015 so that did not apply to my situation (I closed my benefits at the end of January 2015).

What do you think I should do?

Also in the worst case scenario: when can I apply again for EEAPR and achieve it? (Quite annoying 'cause I have already passed life in the UK and the English test)

Thanks

[ohara]

Also in the worst case scenario: when can I apply again for EEAPR and achieve it? (Quite annoying 'cause I have already passed life in the UK and the English test)

Thanks

Life in the UK and English language test have absolutely nothing to do with EEA permanent residence.

You can apply once you have been exercising treaty rights for 5 continuous years.