English language test for UK settlement

[ukthesis]

I am attempting to find out which English language test is best if my wife from outside the EU comes to the UK to join me. In order to get the former family visa (now the Standard Visitor Visa) in order to join me in the UK and to take forwards when she comes to apply in the UK for Temporary Leave to Remain.

I was originally told the A1 English language test is best. It will get her into the UK on a family visa and she can then take the test in the UK before she has to return. Or she can take it in her home country.

However, Trinity College, who run some of these UK language tests, advised me that more useful is the E1 level language test. It opens more opportunities than does the A1 test. Please let me know.

My wife's command of spoken and listening English is good, so I would expect she can easily pass any basic level exam.

[CR001]

It is really difficult to understand what it is you are actually applying for. I have tried to make sense of all your other posts too.

Is she coming on a visitor visa only?

If yes, she does not need to meet the English requirement as a visitor. Or do you mean she is coming to the UK to actually do the A1 test (or B1 if you wish). She will only need the English test when she applies for a spouse visa.

If she comes on a visitor visa, she is not permitted to apply for a spouse visa or any other category while in the UK. She would have to leave the UK and apply from Moldova.

[Casa]

CR001 I'm having the same problem In this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/genera ... l#p1255426 I attempted to explain that she would have to apply for a spouse settlement visa, but the response was that she only wants to visit the UK to see if she likes it.
This post now suggests she is intending to attempt to settle on a visitor visa, which of course as explained is not possible.

@ukthesis It would be helpful if you keep your questions on this in one thread to avoid confusion. @CR001 do you know how to merge the threads please? #technophobic

[ukthesis]

No, let me explain.

We married in June in Moldova. At this stage, I move back and to Moldova to see her. We may also have longer term plans in 2016 that mean I stay longer in Moldova. These are to run a business there and she has family there to support.

She is presently applying for the (former) general visitor visa. This is simply to see where I live here in the UK, out of natual interest. Also, there is another reason she is applying for it.

This is if for health reasons (I am almost 64) I eventually cannot return to Moldova, because I have to be a UK resident to the access NHS treatment I may need. In this case, as my wife, she would want to apply through the former family visa route to join me in the UK. I imagine she would apply for Temporary Leave to Remain in the UK in this case.

We think that if she does now receive the general visitor visa, it may make it that much easier, in this situation, for her to pass the requirements for the family visa (if she needs to live in the UK with me if my health deteriorates). The immigration officials will see she has been to the UK before, so she knows what to expect. And that the immigration officials who let her into the UK before, as a visitor, did not consider her a risk. So the chances of her getting the family visa may be higher.

In other words, the fact she has been to the UK on a general visitor visa MIGHT make it easier to get a family visa down the line if she needs to come here to look after me if I need NHS care.

Who knows if this will happen? But this is the reason for my asking about family visa requirements (eg on the English exams) when she is only, this time, coming here on a visitor visa for which I know she does not have to take a language test. We are preparing for the worst but hoping for the best.

To expidite the issuance to her of a family visa if I am under NHS care, the idea is that she can take the A1 or E1 English tests using her visitor visa on this trip to the UK. I have spoken to her, and there are no testing centres for these exams in Moldova. So if she did not take the test when he is in the UK using her visitor visa now, the whole business would be more of a hassle later on. (The nearest test centres are in Poland, the Ukraine or Romania.) And I am told by Trinity College that she is fine to take the A1 or B1 test on her visitor visa trip to the UK.

So all this research is preparation for the eventuality if she has to come here if my health deteriorates and she later needs to be with me in the UK. So the visitor visa is used for her to see where I live. But equally it is a way for her to far more easily and cheaply take the English language tests if she has, at some future point, to apply for the family visa. And if she gets the visitor visa (passes all their requirements) it can be a way of giving immigration officials more confidence that if she eventually comes to the UK to settle with me, she will not misbehave.

It also connects to my first post in which I asked if, once she lives in the UK (if I need to have NHS care here so she needs to also settle here to look after me), she will only be allowed to return for a maximum of 90 days a year to Moldova. Which I now understand is not true.

So far as I can see, at least unless she applies for UK citizenship, she can stay longer. However, I think that if she ends up in a year staying longer in Moldova than she does in the UK, she may have to explain the reasons why to the immigration people. There is discretion on how these rules are applied.

Does this help?

[Casa]

"she would apply to come to be with me in the UK using the family visa route fir which the language test is required. I know they are all now relabelled as the Standard Visitor Visa)." This is where you are misinformed. Although all visitor visas are now 'standard visitor visas' there is no connection to the Spouse Settlement visa that you are frequently calling 'the former family visa'. Also FLR is an extension to a spouse settlement or fiance visa. Not an extension to a visitor visa or a first time settlement visa application.
I'm not sure how else to explain it.

Do also bear in mind that if you are considering settling together in the UK in the future, if you are not employed and are without a minimum annual income of £18,600, you will need £62,500 in savings held in an accessible account for the 6 months prior to submitting the application.

[CR001]

A visitor visa and a spouse visa are two very different visa categories and have very different criteria that need to be met.

Being successful with a visitor visa does not guarantee or make a spouse visa easier in any way. For each visa, the separate set of requirements have to be met.

Please do some research on the forum, there are many cases of spouses of British citizens being refused visitor visas if the British spouse is living in the UK.

Alternatively, perhaps you need to seek professional advice as we don't seem to be getting the points across.

[ukthesis]

I understand. I know about the Financial Requiremet and I have over £70,000 in savings that are instant access. So that is no problem.

Today I was advised that in the situation I described, the Family Visitor Visa will be better than the Standard Visitor Visa.

On the English language level required, Trinity College today also told me that she would be better to take their E1 exam rather than the A2 exam for later settlement purposes. They say "The A2 exam would not be suitable for making an application for settlement/citizenship as it is at a lower level than the minimum requirement set by the Home Office. Currently, the B1 exam in speaking and listening is the minimum requirement for citizenship applications."

So if she gets here on one of these visas (Family Visitor Visa or General Visitir Visa (Standard Visitor Visa)) I would propose she goes for the E1 exam near to where I live.

[Casa]

I understand. I know about the Financial Requiremet and I have over £70,000 in savings that are instant access. So that is no problem.

Today I was advised that in the situation I described, the Family Visitor Visa will be better than the Standard Visitor Visa.

On the English language level required, Trinity College today also told me that she would be better to take their E1 exam rather than the A2 exam for later settlement purposes. They say "The A2 exam would not be suitable for making an application for settlement/citizenship as it is at a lower level than the minimum requirement set by the Home Office. Currently, the B1 exam in speaking and listening is the minimum requirement for citizenship applications."

So if she gets here on one of these visas (Family Visitor Visa or General Visitir Visa (Standard Visitor Visa)) I would propose she goes for the E1 exam near to where I live.

There is no Family Visitor Visa You've been wrongly advised from someone who hasn't kept up with the changes. All visitor visas are now under one category of Standard Visitor Visa
The B1 exam is also currently the minimum level accepted for permanent settlement (ILR).

[ukthesis]

I wish the UK government would stop messing about with the system. It's complicated enough already for someone simply wanting to visit the UK and not become a Whitehall bureaucrat.

Yes, that's right. As you read in my previous posts, I was aware of the name change. I just forgot to apply it here.

So she fills out this Standard Visitor Visa form online. However, if she wants to now apply for the equivolent of the old Family Visitor Visa, as was proposed to me, I would imagine that the questions she fills out are now different on the same form. And that the requirements are those on the old Family Visitor Visa. She will need to take the E1 English language test.

It was suggested to me that if she gets the old Family Visitor Visa, it would help her more if she needs to join me in the UK in later years. As you pointed out, her getting the old General Visitor Visa won't count with the immigration people if she subsequently wants to apply to join me. Therein lies the value of the old Family Visitor Visa (Standard Visitor Visa today).

[Casa]

I wish the UK government would stop messing about with the system. It's complicated enough already for someone simply wanting to visit the UK and not become a Whitehall bureaucrat.

Yes, that's right. As you read in my previous posts, I was aware of the name change. I just forgot to apply it here.

So she fills out this Standard Visitor Visa form online. However, if she wants to now apply for the equivolent of the old Family Visitor Visa, as was proposed to me, I would imagine that the questions she fills out are now different on the same form. She will need to see if she needs to take the English language test because of all this.

It was suggested to me that if she gets the old Family Visitor Visa, it would help her more if she needs to join me in the UK in later years. As you pointed out, her getting the old General Visitor Visa won't count with the immigration people if she subsequently wants to apply to join me.

You were aware of the name change but you wrote "Today I was advised that in the situation I described, the Family Visitor Visa will be better than the Standard Visitor Visa."
She doesn't need to pass the English test for a visitor visa. Neither did she need to do so for the previous category 'family visitor visa'. A language test at any level has never been required for any category of visitor visa. There is no 'old Family Visitor visa'. It no longer exists and the Visitor visa application form will have been updated. No category of visitor visa strengthens a spouse settlement visa application, and never has done.
The A1 language test won't be needed unless she applies for settlement in the future. See this link:
https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

[ukthesis]

Thanks and it's good to know she doesn't need to pass an English test to meet the requirements of the former family visitor visa. Can I ask one question? Are there any visas whereby she has to pass a language test BEFORE they can issue her with the visa to enter the UK? Or in all cases of UK visa issuance, she can take the language test after she receives the visa, in the UK? Cheers.

[Casa]

Yes there is. A spouse settlement visa. Did you click on the link I posted for you? In fact there are many visas which call for a pre-entry English test, but most of them don't apply to your situation.
Please tell me, to avoid ongoing confusion, exactly what do you believe a 'former family visa' to be?

[ukthesis]

Hi Casa

Before I answer the query on the family visitor visa, can I first run this past you please?

I've done some research. This is what "seems" to be the case (but it's incredible complex and sometimes confusing compared to the system used in Moldova):

On how long she needs to live in the UK, which was the original query. According to the 2013 Guide for applicants for naturalisation as a British Citizen: As you say, the 90 days in a year rule only applies if she wants to apply for UK citizenship after the year is up, and citizenship is not compulsory.

But she should have been absent from the UK for, over the full 5 years period before she could apply for citizenship, not over 450 days

(Confusingly, it also mentions (if she is married to me) a 3 years period, within which she should not have been absent for over 270 days from the UK. Where does this 3 years reference come from, when she cannot become settled in the UK until 5 years are up in any case?)

On the language tests issue. This is now my understanding:

For Temporary Leave to Remain. This is for two and a half years. She requires to pass the A1 exam at an approved test centre. This is the exam she is proposing to take when she visits me on a Standard Visitor Visa in December. But is this proposal sensible?

If you look at my explanation above, she is only proposing this if, when she wants to live in the UK with me, she cannot get the required UK visa (presumably as Temporary Leave to Remain) without FIRST taking this A1 test back in her home region. She worries about the situation where they will not issue her with the visa until she first passes the A1 test back in Moldova. Is this the actual situation?

After living in the UK with me under the Temporary Leave to Remain regime, she then applies for the Further Leave to Remain. This lasts for the same time, making a total of 5 years Uk "residence" for her before she can apply for settlement (Indefinite Leave to Remain).

So after 5 years residence, absent from the UK not over 450 days in the full period, she can apply for Indefinite Leave to Remain. For this final step, ILR, she needs to pass the B1 (speaking and Listening) exam and the Life in the UK Test.

Can you tell me if I have this right? And please let me know about the circumstances under which the A1 test can be taken.

[ukthesis]

Hi Casa

I just looked it up and to initially join me in the UK as my wife she seems to need the "family of a settled person’ visa, and not to apply for Temporary Leave to Remain. So the question is if she needs to pass the A1 test before she can get the "family of a settled person" visa issued to her.

Here is what I am looking at:

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

Cheers.

[CR001]

Hi Casa

I just looked it up and to initially join me in the UK as my wife she seems to need the "family of a settled person’ visa, and not to apply for Temporary Leave to Remain. So the question is if she needs to pass the A1 test before she can get the "family of a settled person" visa issued to her.

Here is what I am looking at:

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

Cheers.

Yes, she needs the A1 (or B1 if she chooses) BEFORE she applies for the spouse visa (family of settled person which is also temporary leave to remain). Her application will likely be refused if she does not submit the test certificate to meet the English requirement. She will also have to pay the immigration health surcharge before applying (£600 for the first entry clearance visa of 33 months)

After 2 x 2.5 year visas, correct she can apply for indefinite leave to remain. She can then, as your spouse as you are British, apply immediately for citizenship based on 3 years residence and the associated 270 days absence limit. (pre 9 July 2012, spouse visas were only issued for 2 years, then 1 year on ILR = where the 3 year spouse of British citizen comes in for citizenship applications).

She of course does not have to apply for citizenship but she can lose her ILR status if she is absent from the UK for 2 or more years. She can also apply for citizenship after holding ILR for 12 months and then apply under the 5 year residence for citizenship.

[ukthesis]

Cheers.

I checked and it seems that the rule where she would have to leave the UK for not over 270 days in 3 years, is 0nly the case where after the 3 years are up, she wants to apply for UK citizenship.

Okay, so if you read my post above you will see the idea is that she takes this A1 exam in the UK in December on a visitor visa for the eventuality that I may later need long term NHS care and as my wife, she will be able more easily to join me here. If we wait until I really do need NHS care, she then has a problem insofar as she would have to travel outside Moldova to take the A1 English test.

On the other side, I may not need this type of NHS care for let's say another 5 years. And if she does take the A1 test on a visitor visa in December, it is only valid for 2 years, according to Trinity College. So she will have to resit it anyhow, from outside the UK where there are practical problems (there are no test centres in Moldova). Those are the arguments.

With regards to the type of visitor visa she would be best to apply for now, which is what I was asked about.

She is going to apply for the Standard Visitor Visa, which incorporates several other types of visa. I was told by the Citizens Advice Bureau that under the old visa rules, she would be better applying for the Family Visitor Visa rather than the General Visitor Visa, perhaps because she is coming to the UK to visit me, her husband. In other words it was, in that sense, more logical to apply for the Family visa. But whether it made a material difference which of these two visas she would have applied for, I have no idea.

But now that the Standard Visitor Visa is out, which does away with them, does it not now matter if in the old days she would have chosen either the Family Visitor Visa or the General Visitor Visa?

[CR001]

She can apply for a Standard Visitor Visa with the sub-section of Family Visitor.

She will need to prove her ties to Moldova and convince UKVI that she will leave and is a genuine visitor. This is where she might have a problem due to you, her husband, being resident in the UK. There have been quite a few refusals in this scenario.

[ukthesis]

Thanks for the QUICK reply!

I understand about the refusals problem. But would it make any difference to her chances of success if she did not, in the Standard Visitor Visa, choose to go for the old Family Visa route? In other words, does it really matter which former visa route (Family Visitor or General Visitor) she follows or chooses on the current Standard Visitor Visa?

I gather than my information on the number of days she can legally leave the UK and still qualify for settlement (450 days in 5 years) is accurate?

[CR001]

Your 5 year assumption is accurate yes.

Even if she chooses to go general visitor sub-section, she will still need to declare you and the marriage and where you reside, so it is neither here nor there really which sub-section is chosen, the material facts remain same.

[ukthesis]

Thanks again. So really it makes no differences to her chances of getting the visa if she chooses to take one route on the Standard Visitor Visa form or another.

We know about the refusals problem. Although I do not live with her in Moldova full time, I bought a nice apartment there for us to live in (which she does full time), and she has part of another apartment over there. She also has those family commitments in Moldova she can prove. So we are hoping that together, this is enough to convince the Border Agancy she will return to Moldova and not be a burden. The fact she is 51 and has never been in trouble with the authorities may also work in her favour. I have the house I own and can fully subsidise her in the UK and I can prove it.

At any rate, she can only try, and see what comes of it.

Best Wishes.

Dave

[Wanderer]

I see an issue here as she will be effectively using a visit visa to reside, not visit.

[ukthesis]

I spoke to my wife and she is not really happy that she would only, under the residency rules (Temporary Leave to Remain and Indefinite Leave to Remain) be able to leave the UK for only 90 days in a year (making the 450 days in 5 years). She has quite a lot of commitments built up in Moldova, business and family.

She would initially come to join me from Moldova using the family of a settled person visa. According to the website, this can last for over 6 months.

https://www.gov.uk/join-family-in-uk/overview

The website talks about her bring able to extend the visa after 6 months, but makes no mention of whether, if she does this, she will be caught up in the settlement procedure which then means she is stuck with only being able to leave the UK for 90 days a year. Nor does it mention whether, using that family of a settled person visa, if she returns temporarily to Moldova, this may count against her (count against that 450 days allowed).

Basically, because of the limiting residency criterion attached to the TLR and the IRL she is trying to find out if there is a way around this. The joining family of a settled person seems as though this may be one way, but can anyone advise?

[ukthesis]

Anyone interested, I posted a followup on another forum.

[CR001]

A family of settled person visa is issued for 33 months initally.

It is only the fiance visa (not applicable to her as already married) that is issued for 6 months and extendable in the UK.

You keep talking about the 450 days absence limit. This is only applicable when she eventually gets to the citizenship part, which she does not have to apply for.

If she does the family of settled person visa and travels in and out and then eventually applies for ILR, only absences of 6 months or more need to be declared. She can also perpetually keep extending her spouse visa. There is no rules that she HAS TO apply for ILR or citizenship.

[Casa]

Also, as has already been explained to you, the 90 day absence rule applies to a British citizenship application, not ILR or during the 5 year probationary period. If she eventually qualifies for ILR she can be absent for up to 2 years.