ILE for Non EEA relative of UK National

[BCMN1]

Hi,

I would need some advise to apply for 'Indefinite Leave to Enter' for my mother (age 75) and Brother (age 35, having down syndrome). Both are financially dependant on me(self employed). All of us (myself, wife & kids) are UK Nationals.

My mother and brother currently hold 2 years visit visa expiring in May 2016 and been to the UK twice in the past for the period less than 6 months each time.

Can they apply for 'Indefinite Leave to Enter'(while holding a visit visa) on the basis that as my mother is getting older, she can not look after my brother like she used to? And needs to be looked after herself.

I'll appreciate any advise on above.

Many thanks in advance.

[CR001]

If as a UK national you are living in the UK, this route of visa is almost impossible to get. It is not ILE you should be looking at but Adult Dependent Relative.

[Casa]

In addition to CR001's advice, if you apply for Adult Dependent visas and the application fails, all future visitor visa applications will be refused. In order for an application to be successful you would have to show that both your mother and your brother need daily help with basic tasks such as washing, dressing, cooking etc and that the care is either not available in their home country or is unaffordable. The case worker would argue that if you can afford to support them in the UK where costs are higher, you would be able to afford to pay for care in their home country.
This door to chain migration is now virtually closed.

[BCMN1]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

However there is more of personal care rather than financial care as my wife doesnt work and can easily look after both.

They can apply for 10 years visitors visa, but I want them to stay with us rather than travelling back and forth every year.

Also my centre of life is in the UK, and not pratical for me to move to another EU country.

Regards,

[Casa]

As I've said in my previous post...can you prove that they both need daily help with basic tasks? Is you mother able to dress, wash and cook for herself and your brother?

[BCMN1]

My mother can't wash or iron. She is suffering from severe stomach disorder for the past few years now. There is no permanent cure but when she is in pain she has to bed rest completely.

In that scenario she is unable to perform any tasks at all. Medical evidence from the past many years is available.

My brother has down syndrome and can't not cook or wash at all. He can only do very basic tasks like changing clothes etc. Medical certificates already provided to British High Commission with previous applications.

Even if they apply for adult dependant relative visa, and it gets refused for some reason, will this affect their valid visit visa?

[Casa]

With supporting medical evidence your application looks to be stronger than most, but the few applications which have been successful appear to have been won after a court appeal. Yes regrettably if the application fails, visitor visas in the future are likely to be refused due to the desire to settle.

[BCMN1]

So ECO can cancel their current visitor visa if the other application is refused?

[Casa]

So ECO can cancel their current visitor visa if the other application is refused?

I believe so.

[BCMN1]

Many thanks...

[Casa]

I should mention that although medical evidence may support the need for care, what you will still have to justify is that care isn't available for them both in their home country...or if it is available, it's unaffordable (i.e a higher cost than in the UK).

[secret.simon]

I should mention that although medical evidence may support the need for care, what you will still have to justify is that care isn't available for them both in their home country...or if it is available, it's unaffordable (i.e a higher cost than in the UK).

This is the hard part. To the best of the common knowledge on these forums, the Adult Dependent Relatives visas that have been successful have been from countries like the US, with health care much more expensive than the UK.

But care costs in places like the subcontinent or Africa are much lower and hence, you would have to prove that the care over there is too unaffordable, while simultaneously proving that you have the funds to support them here.

There have been only 34 known successes of this visa in the past three years and of these, most have been issued after appeals under the law before 2012 of of parents from countries like the US and Canada.

So ECO can cancel their current visitor visa if the other application is refused?

The IO (Immigration Officer) at the airport can curtail or modify a pre-existing visa issued by an ECO (Entry Clearance Officer) in an embassy/consulate if the circumstances of the person to whom such leave has been granted change. In theory, they can even be sent back from the airport directly to their country of normal residence.

[Casa]

+1 secret.simon Hard facts, but good advice and better to know what the challenges are.

[BCMN1]

Thanks for all the important information, but in my case moral support is more essential than financial support, also the city where my mother lives it is extremely difficult to get some one for care for over night on permanent basis. All our relatives live atleast 100miles away from our home town and its not practical for them to provide any permanent support to my mother and brother.

Just alone in this year my mother was taken to the hospital at late night time by immediate neighbours. But there is a limit of this support as they are not obliged to continue with their kind support.

My argument is financial support in foreign country vs. right to private life in the UK(where elderly parents need more moral support rather than financial and want to be close their children).

As an addition I have been to the court for my mother and brother's first EC visa in 2010 and successfully represented the case in the front the Immigration Judge. Funny part was that bundle sent to the IT by the respondent (ECO) had twisted facts and totally new refusal arguments than what was in the original refusal letter sent to my mother.

[CR001]

My argument is financial support in foreign country vs. right to private life in the UK(where elderly parents need more moral support rather than financial and want to be close their children).

They don't have this right in the UK and HO/UKVI don't make visa decisions based on emotions. They will say that you can relocate back to your home country to support your family. Harsh as it sounds, it is reality with this particular visa.

You say it is not practical for you to move to an EU country, this is the easier option and cheaper too and perhaps you should consider it.

[secret.simon]

in my case moral support is more essential than financial support

I am sure that that view is appreciated on these forums. But the Rules quite clearly state the requirements and the ECOs base their decisions on the Rules, as they should. We are a country that has the rule of law, not of emotions. If you disagree with the Rules, campaign online, lobby your MP, cast your vote, get the Rules changed, but until such a time that the Rules do change, they are the law and that is what the ECO ought to follow.

right to private life in the UK(where elderly parents need more moral support rather than financial and want to be close their children).

There are many ways to look at this statement. The way the government would look at this are
a) Your parents do not have the right to private life in the UK.
b) You can move to their country of residence to provide moral support.
c) Their "want" to be close to their children in this country is counterbalanced by the "want" of a lot of citizens in this country not to allow any more migration and by the "want" of a lot of people not to have to provide for people who have not necessarily contributed to the social security pot. A "want" is neither here nor there when it comes to logical arguments.

I empathise with the situation that you are in. You are in the unenviable situation of trying to reconcile the laws and rules of your British citizenship with your wish to support your parents in their old age.

But as I mentioned above, we are a country of the rule of law and I would rather that an unattractive law prevails than that decisions are based on arbitrary emotions. I can imagine that most people on these forums would be outraged if I suggested allowing ECOs to decide immigration applications based on their feelings about the race, gender or looks of the applicant. Yet, precisely those people will want the rules bent to accommodate their own emotions.

All our relatives live atleast 100miles away from our home town and its not practical for them to provide any permanent support to my mother and brother.

How close are the relatives (in terms of degrees of affinity or consanguity)? Are they your siblings or your mother's siblings? If so, can your mother not move within the country to stay near them? Are there no institutional care homes in that country?

I appreciate this post will not have been pleasant to read, but these are broadly the arguments that the government and the Home Office will put forward. Allowing one set of parents in on the basis of your arguments will open the floodgates and that would be political suicide for the government.

I would also point out that the main argument for leaving the ECHR is precisely the arguments that you make about "private life". Ironically, because of exercising that one specific right a little too strenuously, we may end up losing a lot more than just that one right. I would urge caution going down that route, but whatever route you take from here, I wish you the very best of British luck and godspeed.

EDIT: Typing my rather lengthy response while CR001 got in with a punchier short one.

[CR001]

Well said and outlined SS

[BCMN1]

Hi All,

Recently my mother and brother applied(from Pakistan) for a 5 years General Visitor's Visa for UK. However it was refused on some baseless grounds with no right to appeal or administrative review.

Initially when they first applied for 6 months visa in 2009 it was refused too for false grounds which was overturned in AIT in July 2010 and they were granted 6 months visa. They visited us and left the country after 5 months.

Applied again in 2014 for 2 years family visit visa and was granted without any trouble. They visited us and left the country after 4 months.

But this year the ECO claimed that as they had stated 8 weeks in their 2014 application and stayed for 4 months therefore the ECO does not think that they are credible applicants despite their compliance with previous visa terms of both occasions.

ECO lied on the refusal that they have submitted 2 bank statements(actually 3) and did not take account the most healthy bank statement(a call was made to that bank by the BHC to confirm the account and amount).

I received a call from the UKVI as I am the sponsor and I confirmed every thing which was in the application.

ECO's lack of common sense was shown in my brother's refusal(he has down syndrome) stating that he has not shown his financial position in shape of bank statement or property ownership. We have submitted a certificate of disables person issued by Govt of Pakistan along with letter from a GP and copy of his disabled ID card.

I wrote to the Entry Clearance Manager that an incorrect decision was made but they did not bother to even reply.

I then involved my local MP, who wrote to UKVI on my behalf but after 2 months refusal decision maintained reply came from BHC in Abu Dhabi, which again clearly shown lack of professionalism.

I have paid £1300 towards the visa fee and they want us to re-apply with no guarantee of visa.

I request Gurus, Moderators and Senior members to provide any guidance.

Thanks.

[noajthan]

Posts merged.

[Casa]

Unfortunately, staying in the UK longer than the time requested when applying for a visitor visa is a now a common reason for refusing subsequent application.

How were the visa fees so high?

[CR001]

How were the visa fees so high?

2 X 5 year visitor visas @ £600 each

[noajthan]

Unfortunately, staying in the UK longer than the time requested when applying for a visitor visa is a now a common reason for refusing subsequent application.

...

It is also clearly documented in guidance in puvlic domain so hardly a surprising nor baseless reason.

Worth noting UKVI pay a lot of attention to past behaviour as an indicator of intent.