New EEA FP application forms

[Richard66]

Has anyone seen the new application form for EEA family permit? It is now available from UK Visas. They claim they are in plain English and simple to complete. The form itself is 17 (yes, SEVENTEEN) pages long and the guidance notes are 9 pages long (so modest, this).

It seems the UK is really turning into a police state. The sort of questions I saw there...

I also notice one "may be" required to produce fingerprints. They seem to have got the message this is an illegal request.

There is no mention that family members of UK citizens exercising treaty rights may apply. They certainly don't want Surinder Singh to become famous!

I wonder, were a family member to REFUSE to give fingerprints and to furnish any other documents other than marriage certificate and passports, what would happen? Would the permit be refused? How would they justify it?

I feel like applying just for a lark and see how it goes.

I think this form is going to find its way to the European Commission...

[runie80]

Can you provide the link to the form ?

I checked and all appears to be the same

[yankeegirl]

I think the reason is the form is long is that the permit is not only used for visiting but also for settlement. I was happy that it's a separate form; when I applied it was on the VAF1 form with the various visitor categories and it was a nightmare to figure out which sections applied to me, and the guidance notes were crap too.

[Richard66]

Here are the links:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/VAF5_25Oct,0.pdf (the form)

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/VAF5GuideOct07.pdf (the guidance notes)

[runie80]

Yes these documents are definately new ones.

I remember when I applied they didn't asked too many details.

also the fingerprint part is new too (I believe)

[thsths]

Has anyone seen the new application form for EEA family permit? It is now available from UK Visas. They claim they are in plain English and simple to complete. The form itself is 17 (yes, SEVENTEEN) pages long and the guidance notes are 9 pages long (so modest, this).

I have read the form now, and I have to say that I am amazed. What I noticed as new questions: list all your previous passports for the last 10 years (heck, I couldn't do that), list all your kids with address etc, even if they have nothing to do with the case, list all your travel during the last 10 years (I couldn't do that either, and certainly not on an A4 sheet).

And why do they ask for traffic offences? Or do they mean traffic offenses that lead to criminal convictions? But the best question is the one about your terrorist history, this time not limited to 10 years.

I don't know, but I think something should be done about this. There is a wikipedia page for the EEA family permit, maybe we can collect some guidance there as to which parts of the form you can ignore.

It seems the UK is really turning into a police state. The sort of questions I saw there...

Oh, did you not get the memo? With all the CCTV cameras around, police getting more and more rights, everyone having to decrypt data that 'looks' suspicious, detaining without reason if suspected of terrorism, long standing citizen purveyance pacts with the worst of the western world... I think it has already happened.

I also notice one "may be" required to produce fingerprints. They seem to have got the message this is an illegal request.

I think this is just in line with what every citizen has to do. The new passports in Europe will include your fingerprint data. The main question is whether it will also be stored in a central database ... oh, the answer seems to be yes.

[magata]

Richard66
Member of Standing


Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 130

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:38 pm Post subject:

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Here are the links:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/VAF5_25Oct,0.pdf (the form)

http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/VAF5GuideOct07.pdf (the guidance notes)

Thanks very much for the links

[JAJ]

It seems the UK is really turning into a police state. The sort of questions I saw there...

I also notice one "may be" required to produce fingerprints. They seem to have got the message this is an illegal request.

If it's to do with proving identity then why should it be illegal?

There is no mention that family members of UK citizens exercising treaty rights may apply. They certainly don't want Surinder Singh to become famous!

There is no obligation on them to give publicity to it.

[thsths]

There is no obligation on them to give publicity to it.

I think they do. In Article 34 of Directive 2004/38 it says:

Member States shall disseminate information concerning the
rights and obligations of Union citizens and their family
members on the subjects covered by this Directive, particularly
by means of awareness-raising campaigns conducted through
national and local media and other means of communication.

I am not surprised that there have been no "awareness-raising campaigns", but certainly the application form is the best place to tell you about your rights. So I am surprised that even the form fails to mention anything that might be interpreted as a right.

[JAJ]

There is no obligation on them to give publicity to it.

I think they do. In Article 34 of Directive 2004/38 it says:

Member States shall disseminate information concerning the
rights and obligations of Union citizens and their family
members on the subjects covered by this Directive, particularly
by means of awareness-raising campaigns conducted through
national and local media and other means of communication.

I am not surprised that there have been no "awareness-raising campaigns", but certainly the application form is the best place to tell you about your rights. So I am surprised that even the form fails to mention anything that might be interpreted as a right.

There is information available on the Home Office and UK Visas websites.

[Docterror]

JAJ, are you really arguing that the form that is to be used for the EEAFP by the Surinder Singh route applicants need not have to have that fact mentioned in the form?

[JAJ]

JAJ, are you really arguing that the form that is to be used for the EEAFP by the Surinder Singh route applicants need not have to have that fact mentioned in the form?

Yes.

[Docterror]

Wow! In that case, all I can say is, thank goodness I have the sense not to share your version of pragmatism!

[Richard66]

There is no obligation on them to give publicity to it.

Why even bother to tell family members the EEA family permit exists at all? Let people apply for normal visas!

I remind you that UK Visas itself tells, in its site, that the ECO must inform the applicant that application for a FP is possible in Surinder Singh cases. Also, Regulation 9 of the Immigration (EEA) regulations 2006/1003 refers to these cases.

I was not aware it was part of the government's policy to make laws secret.

I would say most of this form can be safely ignored. My wife does not require a visa just now, so we're not trying this pudding yet, but I shall mention this in my petition to the European Parliament and will definitely bring this to the European Commission's attention.

The UK policies have already risen a few eyebrows in Brussels.

Anyway, for spouses and minor children the EEA MUST be issued if passports an proof of relationship is proved... so, how would the ECO justify a denial?

[Richard66]

From DSP, Chapter 21.4:

Please note, if a family member who is travelling with, or is to join the EEA national in the UK requests a visit visa, you should offer him (or her) the option of applying for a family permit under EC law or a visa under the Immigration Rules.

The link is this one:

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front ... 6679156328

Do you still say the visa form should not mention a possibility that is mentioned by UK visas itself?

This is the scary part. ANYTHING might be requested to prove this:

In addition to these, you should be satisfied that neither the applicant nor the EEA principal should be excluded from the UK on public policy, public security or public health grounds.

[Richard66]

What has happened to the application forms for the EEA FP, does anyone know?

PS. Never mind: I have found them somewhere else.

[ignatius]

I wonder, were a family member to REFUSE to give fingerprints and to furnish any other documents other than marriage certificate and passports, what would happen? Would the permit be refused? How would they justify it?

So, is this the legal minimum you can furnish and not have the FP refused? I need to apply for one, and was worried I wont have enough documentation to prove we have lived together for x years etc.

I will obviously be supplying as much info as I have, but its good to know, in case they refuse the permit..