British passport application on hold: middle name problem

[amilawal]

Hello everybody,
I don't know if anybody has encountered this kind of problem b4. I registered my son (age 6) as a british citizen. The registration certificate included all the names on the birth certificate (I mean the surname, first name, and the 2 middile names). When I applied for my son's british passport I received a letter from the case worker that the name on his foreign passport is different from the name on his application form just because one of the middle name is not included in the foreign passport. Now the name on the application forms contains all the name that have been documented in the registration certificate. I never had this issue when I applied for his registration certificate. I have been informed to go and change the name on his foreign passport. that means to go and include the last miidle name. I don't get this. The case worker mentioned that the passport will not be issued because my son has a foreign passport in another name. He did not mention that this is due to the fact that one of the middle name is not on his foreign passport. Has anybody encounter this issue b4?
thank you for reading

[secret.simon]

It is standard HMPO practice (section 3 of the document) that a British passport is only issued with the same name as any foreign passport that the naturalised/registered citizen already holds.

Many people, typically married women, have got into a sticky situation when they have had their passports in their maiden (or former) name and their naturalisation certificate in their married (or otherwise current) name. The situation is of course worse if the other citizenship is lost automatically on acquisition of British citizenship. Thus they can not get a new passport in the new name.

See this thread for advice on this similar situation.

[noajthan]

UK has a policy against granting someone an identity document (passport) in what they see as a second identity ('different' name).

And see forum sticky note on HO/HMPO name policy:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 84012.html

[Out]

hi,

Yes there is a new policy that is aimed at preventing criminals to hide their identity. That policy refers to "different" name being used and if the person has dual nationality and therefore a foreign passport then that passport must also be in the same name as their British passport. The policy does not mention dropping off of one forename as an example for a different name. Instead the policy uses the married name as the example. That as we all know means the surname would be different. However, the clerical staff at the passport office have come to this interpretation that even a small difference in the forename, for example using two forenames when you have three, also constitutes a different name.

The policy has a purpose obviously which gives it the justification and its purpose is to prevent criminals using different names on different identity documents such as passports. The way this is being handled is to ask British citizens with dual nationality to change their names on their foreign passports. It does sound as if all British Citizens with dual nationality are potential criminals, but I doubt if that is what was in their minds when they wrote the policy or when they interpreted it.

But that may not be the end of it and for those who can comply and change their names on their foreign passports. This may not be the end of the story for them. When you change your name on your foreign passport you will end up having a different name on your passports and your Naturalisation certificate. I am assuming that most dual nationals have become citizens using their foreign passport as their identity document. Beware, it is possible that later in the future some clerical staff will then decide that because your Naturalisation certificate has a different name to your passports, your citizenship is in doubt.

So what is the solution. The solution is usually to reach a point where policies are fair and reasonable and serve their stated purpose. If anyone cared to actually think through the policy they would see that someone with dual nationality and two passports can either change the name on their foreign passport or they can not.

If they can not change the name on their foreign passport then the policy is placing an unfair demand on the person.

If they can change the name on their foreign passport then if they have criminal intentions they would be able to go and reverse those changes a few weeks or months later. In fact they would be able to change their name on their foreign passport periodically as they like.

Therefore, the policy used by the passport office is unfair and useless. It is unfair in that it places an impossible demand on those who are not able to change the name on their foreign passports. It is useless because it does not serve its stated purpose (i.e. prevent criminals to hide their identity).

It is good to openly discuss this and call your MP and tell them about it so that the policy can be changed or withdrawn. Your MP can also contact the passport office to find out why you are being treated in this way.

[noajthan]

Agree.

And my wholly respectable and law-abiding wife was put through the mill due to this policy around a year ago. (Thread as linked above).

At that time HO was denying there was any such policy.
Then when they finally admitted there was one, the details were said to be 'secret' - so noone could understand or know what to do to comply with it.

Even after being announced by press release, the name/identity policy & practices as followed by HO (when naturalising people) & the policy/practice followed by HMPO (in issuing or blocking passports) were at times mutually incompatible.

The policy still doesn't take account of people who can't change a foreign name &/or foreign passport.
And the observations clause of the policy is being used only patchily;
- sometimes permitted only after repeated & excessive representations to HMPO &/or after a MP's intervention

Left-hand versus right-hand.

[member]

Hello everybody,
I don't know if anybody has encountered this kind of problem b4. I registered my son (age 6) as a british citizen. The registration certificate included all the names on the birth certificate (I mean the surname, first name, and the 2 middile names). When I applied for my son's british passport I received a letter from the case worker that the name on his foreign passport is different from the name on his application form just because one of the middle name is not included in the foreign passport. Now the name on the application forms contains all the name that have been documented in the registration certificate. I never had this issue when I applied for his registration certificate. I have been informed to go and change the name on his foreign passport. that means to go and include the last miidle name. I don't get this. The case worker mentioned that the passport will not be issued because my son has a foreign passport in another name. He did not mention that this is due to the fact that one of the middle name is not on his foreign passport. Has anybody encounter this issue b4?
thank you for reading

Do you mind telling who informed you to go?

[JohnnyZee]

Hi - I am encountering same issue.

1) I wanted to drop my middle name hence I let UKBA know when applying for naturalisation. My certificate now does not have my middle name (i.e. just first and last name)

2) I applied for UK passport without middle name. HMPO said they cannot issue passport as my foreign passport has middle name too. They asked me to remove my middle name from foreign passport first. That is near to impossible especially sitting here in the UK.

3) Therefore, I informed HMPO that I am ok with them issuing passport including middle name i.e. same as foreign passport. Now they are telling me that it is not possible until I get my middle name included in the certificate of naturalisation.

4) I now have to go back to UKBA and ask them to send me an amended naturalisation certificate. This costs an extra £162. I don't even know if UKBA can amend certificate but HMPO are insisting I get this done.

What should I do, peeps?

[amilawal]

Thank you for your reply. I was informed by the Caseworker to go and change the name on his foreign passport. I.e to include the last middle name.

[amilawal]

Hello everybody,
I don't know if anybody has encountered this kind of problem b4. I registered my son (age 6) as a british citizen. The registration certificate included all the names on the birth certificate (I mean the surname, first name, and the 2 middile names). When I applied for my son's british passport I received a letter from the case worker that the name on his foreign passport is different from the name on his application form just because one of the middle name is not included in the foreign passport. Now the name on the application forms contains all the name that have been documented in the registration certificate. I never had this issue when I applied for his registration certificate. I have been informed to go and change the name on his foreign passport. that means to go and include the last miidle name. I don't get this. The case worker mentioned that the passport will not be issued because my son has a foreign passport in another name. He did not mention that this is due to the fact that one of the middle name is not on his foreign passport. Has anybody encounter this issue b4?
thank you for reading

Do you mind telling who informed you to go?

Thank you for your reply. I was informed by the Caseworker to go and change the name on his foreign passport. I.e to include the last middle name.

[noajthan]

Hi - I am encountering same issue.

...

4) I now have to go back to UKBA and ask them to send me an amended naturalisation certificate. This costs an extra £162. I don't even know if UKBA can amend certificate but HMPO are insisting I get this done.

What should I do, peeps?

Yep, total lack of coordination & alignment even between Home Office & HMPO.
Never mind the disconnect with other countries' traditions, cultures, laws & policies.

HO plays ball with such requests/changes & HMPO then plays hardball.

And another difficulty is that passports are issued by Royal Prerogative and not by any Act of Parliament so it's hard for even our elected representatives to get involved.

In your case, not sure HO will issue another certificate as they have naturalised you as per your request (& as per their form, which permits such requests).
(Such a certificate is a statement of record & of the facts at the time).

[JohnnyZee]

Thanks noajthan

Any other views, please?

[Out]

Thanks noajthan

Any other views, please?

I know I am repeating myself but I think it is important to everyone to know about this change of name policy and its implications and possible risks in future.

There is a new policy that is aimed at preventing criminals to hide their identity. That policy refers to "different" name being used and if the person has dual nationality and therefore a foreign passport then that passport must also be in the same name as their British passport. The policy does not mention dropping off of one forename as an example for a different name. Instead the policy uses the married name as the example. That as we all know means the surname would be different. However, the clerical staff at the passport office have come to this interpretation that even a small difference in the forename, for example using two forenames when you have three, also constitutes a different name.

The policy has a purpose obviously which gives it the justification and its purpose is to prevent criminals using different names on different identity documents such as passports. The way this is being handled is to ask British citizens with dual nationality to change their names on their foreign passports. It does sound as if all British Citizens with dual nationality are potential criminals, but I doubt if that is what was in their minds when they wrote the policy or when they interpreted it.

But that may not be the end of it and for those who can comply and change their names on their foreign passports. This may not be the end of the story for them. When you change your name on your foreign passport you will end up having a different name on your passports and your Naturalisation certificate. I am assuming that most dual nationals have become citizens using their foreign passport as their identity document. Beware, it is possible that later in the future some clerical staff will then decide that because your Naturalisation certificate has a different name to your passports, your citizenship is in doubt.

So what is the solution. The solution is usually to reach a point where policies are fair and reasonable and serve their stated purpose. If anyone cared to actually think through the policy they would see that someone with dual nationality and two passports can either change the name on their foreign passport or they can not.

If they can not change the name on their foreign passport then the policy is placing an unfair demand on the person.

If they can change the name on their foreign passport then if they have criminal intentions they would be able to go and reverse those changes a few weeks or months later. In fact they would be able to change their name on their foreign passport periodically as they like.

Therefore, the policy used by the passport office is unfair and useless. It is unfair in that it places an impossible demand on those who are not able to change the name on their foreign passports. It is useless because it does not serve its stated purpose (i.e. prevent criminals to hide their identity).

It is good to openly discuss this and call your MP and tell them about it so that the policy can be changed or withdrawn. Your MP can also contact the passport office to find out why you are being treated in this way.

[amilawal]

Thanks noajthan

Any other views, please?

Hello JonnyZee,
Any luck with with your case?. I tried to change my son's name on his foreign passport but it was not possible at the moment. maybe I will have to re apply for his registration certificate in the name on his foreign passport.
Thanks

[JohnnyZee]

Thanks noajthan

Any other views, please?

Hello JonnyZee,
Any luck with with your case?. I tried to change my son's name on his foreign passport but it was not possible at the moment. maybe I will have to re apply for his registration certificate in the name on his foreign passport.
Thanks

Hi amilawal - I have written to both Home Office and Passport office reminding them that name change on naturalisation/registration certificate is not possible as per names policy on GOV.UK website. Basically, I am doing their job for them. So I am hoping they confirm this on official letterhead and tell me how to proceed. If no luck, I shall ask my MP to intervene. Policy wording below:

"4.1. A certificate of registration or naturalisation is issued on the basis of the information supplied by the applicant at the time of application and cannot be altered. Those who change their name after they have been naturalised or registered, and ask for their certificate to be altered to show the new name, should be advised that:

• it is not the normal practice of the Home Office to alter a certificate once it has been issued, and
• they should evidence the change by executing a deed poll or making a statutory declaration and to produce this document whenever they produce the certificate of naturalisation or registration"

[amilawal]

Thanks noajthan

Any other views, please?

Hello JonnyZee,
Any luck with with your case?. I tried to change my son's name on his foreign passport but it was not possible at the moment. maybe I will have to re apply for his registration certificate in the name on his foreign passport.
Thanks

Hi amilawal - I have written to both Home Office and Passport office reminding them that name change on naturalisation/registration certificate is not possible as per names policy on GOV.UK website. Basically, I am doing their job for them. So I am hoping they confirm this on official letterhead and tell me how to proceed. If no luck, I shall ask my MP to intervene. Policy wording below:

"4.1. A certificate of registration or naturalisation is issued on the basis of the information supplied by the applicant at the time of application and cannot be altered. Those who change their name after they have been naturalised or registered, and ask for their certificate to be altered to show the new name, should be advised that:

• it is not the normal practice of the Home Office to alter a certificate once it has been issued, and
• they should evidence the change by executing a deed poll or making a statutory declaration and to produce this document whenever they produce the certificate of naturalisation or registration"

Thank u for your response. Pls keep me posted. I might also be getting my mp involved.
Thank u

[JohnnyZee]

Hi amilawal,

HMPO responded to my letter asking for proof of name change. Hence, I have sent them a change of name deed. I did it myself and asked 2 witnesses to sign. See link below:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-pol ... -deed-poll

I hope this will be enough to settle the matter. Main thing is to ensure name on foreign passport matches name on application for British passport. The names on certificate can be different but need to be supported with deed poll.

[amilawal]

Hi amilawal,

HMPO responded to my letter asking for proof of name change. Hence, I have sent them a change of name deed. I did it myself and asked 2 witnesses to sign. See link below:

https://www.gov.uk/change-name-deed-pol ... -deed-poll

I hope this will be enough to settle the matter. Main thing is to ensure name on foreign passport matches name on application for British passport. The names on certificate can be different but need to be supported with deed poll.

Hello JonnyZee
Thank you so much for your reply. I really appreciate your response. I will have to do the same thing.
I will keep you posted. thank you so much.

[JohnnyZee]

Hi amilawal - my deed of name change has been accepted by HMPO. I called in today and was told that interview letter is on the way. There was no need to get certificate amended with Home Office. Hope it works out for you too.

[amilawal]

Hi amilawal - my deed of name change has been accepted by HMPO. I called in today and was told that interview letter is on the way. There was no need to get certificate amended with Home Office. Hope it works out for you too.

Hello JohnnyZee,
I think you are very lucky with ur case worker. At the moment my caseworker is still proving very difficult. He informed me to make every effort to change the name on the passport after I have informed him that i am ready to change the name of my son by deed pool. He wrote to me that the name on the registration cert cannot be change. He did not mention anything about the deed pool.
I dont know what to do here. I am ready to surrender my son's foreign passport in order to get away from this problem.

[kirifella]

I'm in a very similar situation and seeking advice. I have two forenames which I used for naturalisation (2015) and subsequent passport request. So I have Forename1 Forename2 Surname on my British passport.

I'm in the process of changing my name (removing Forename1) via enrolled Deed Poll, further to which it will look like Forename2 Surname.

Initially, HMPO didn't mention anything about having the new name matching on my foreign passport first, supposedly because this is not a request for my first British passport. However, I then called back for some other info and they stated that my new name needs to be amended on my foreign passport. Whilst my original country does allow name changes, it is a preposterously lengthy process with time frames between 6 months and 2 years to make that happen.

What would happen if I played dumb and simply requested HMPO to issue a new passport with the new name Deed Poll? Surely they know I am a dual national, but what would I risk in asking without changing my foreign passport first? Is it simply a letter back from HMPO saying no? Or a full-blown criminal charge? In other words, is It worth trying?

[kirifella]

I'm in a very similar situation and seeking advice. I have two forenames which I used for naturalisation (2015) and subsequent passport request. So I have Forename1 Forename2 Surname on my British passport.

I'm in the process of changing my name (removing Forename1) via enrolled Deed Poll, further to which it will look like Forename2 Surname.

Initially, HMPO didn't mention anything about having the new name matching on my foreign passport first, supposedly because this is not a request for my first British passport. However, I then called back for some other info and they stated that my new name needs to be amended on my foreign passport. Whilst my original country does allow name changes, it is a preposterously lengthy process with time frames between 6 months and 2 years to make that happen.

What would happen if I played dumb and simply requested HMPO to issue a new passport with the new name Deed Poll? Surely they know I am a dual national, but what would I risk in asking without changing my foreign passport first? Is it simply a letter back from HMPO saying no? Or a full-blown criminal charge? In other words, is It worth trying?

Anyone? Did I say something wrong?

[CR001]

I'm in a very similar situation and seeking advice. I have two forenames which I used for naturalisation (2015) and subsequent passport request. So I have Forename1 Forename2 Surname on my British passport.

I'm in the process of changing my name (removing Forename1) via enrolled Deed Poll, further to which it will look like Forename2 Surname.

Initially, HMPO didn't mention anything about having the new name matching on my foreign passport first, supposedly because this is not a request for my first British passport. However, I then called back for some other info and they stated that my new name needs to be amended on my foreign passport. Whilst my original country does allow name changes, it is a preposterously lengthy process with time frames between 6 months and 2 years to make that happen.

What would happen if I played dumb and simply requested HMPO to issue a new passport with the new name Deed Poll? Surely they know I am a dual national, but what would I risk in asking without changing my foreign passport first? Is it simply a letter back from HMPO saying no? Or a full-blown criminal charge? In other words, is It worth trying?

Anyone? Did I say something wrong?

Tagging your question onto another members topic, especially one that is more than a year old, is usually not the best way to get a response, it is considered rude and it creates confusion. You should start your own topic.

[kirifella]

Tagging your question onto another members topic, especially one that is more than a year old, is usually not the best way to get a response, it is considered rude and it creates confusion. You should start your own topic.

Done, thanks