Tier 4 student dependent visa

[mansoorshahid77]

My spouse is currently doing PHD in England as Tier 4 student visa for next three years .

I want to apply Tier 4 dependent visa for myself and kids .

Question No 1

I cannot live in UK due to my commitments in my home country , so I plan to apply after approval of 4 dependent visa, visa UK with kids , pick up the BRP card . I come back and kids stay with mother. I continue to visit them once every quarter for a week/ten days

Will this be a non-complain with Tier 4 visa ? Does Tier 4 dependent visa have a minimum stay requirements per calendar year ? Will this create problem for my wife and my visas for UK under tier 4 and visit purposes later ?

Question 2

I have a multiple visit visa for UK valid 5 years .
If my tier 4 application is approved now , will this result in cancellation of existing visit visa ?

[vinny]

1. You may have problems satisfying 319C(d) and 319C(e), especially when reapplying in the future.

(e) The applicant and the Relevant Points Based System Migrant must intend to live with the other as their spouse or civil partner, unmarried or same-sex partner throughout the applicants stay in the UK.

However, there's no minimum stay requirement in 319D(b).

Note that they may refuse the children if you are refused.

2. See also Extant leave: ECB22.

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello ,

Can some share some info, what can be the " compelling reasons " in the following

If there are serious compelling reasons which mean you and your partner cannot come to live together in the UK , then studing partner can apply and bring the child as Tier 4 dependent visa without the spouse apply for Tier 4 dependent visa.

I read the following link. ( please scroll down in the link below and read the heading " Additional rules for child dependants ")

http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/students/ ... sinUK.aspx

Thank you

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello

I read the option of possibility of switch from Tier 4 to Tier 2 for PHD students as per below .

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/switch-to-this-visa

PhD students

You must have completed at least 12 months’ study for your PhD during your most recent stay in the UK and had permission to take the qualification.

I will reach the 12 month complete of PHD studentship soon in few months , Can I apply and switch to Tier 2 .

Many thanks

[sah10406]

There is no further information. This rule is deliberately left open to allow for different peoples' situations to meet the rules.

Perhaps if you explain your own situation, people here can comment whether they personally feel it is compelling. However, more usefully, I advise you discuss it with the the International Student Adviser at LSE who will have more experience advising students about this.

[sah10406]

I will reach the 12 month complete of PHD studentship soon in few months , Can I apply and switch to Tier 2.

You have already read and quoted the eligibility to switch. What is your concern about not meeting it?

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello ,
Question 1
I am considering switch from Tier 4 student to Tier 2. Is there a minimum stay requirements to keep the tier 2 visa valid . I woud like to travel back frequently to my home country. I will be in UK for 4 week in each quater . Will it create any problems ?

Question 2
what is the rule for dependent children under tier 2 ? As my spouse cannot join me in UK due to his work commitments , can I sponser my kids with out my spouse on Tier 2 depedent visa ?


Thank you

[martinstroke]

Answers to your questions are

1. You cannot use the tier 2 visa as you have indicated as this is a work visa requiring sponsorship and you will need to be in full time employment in the UK and you will need to get an employer who is willing to sponsor you within the requirements, otherwise this will be a breach of the rules and can lead to suspension or revocation of the sponsors licence.

2. You will need to apply for your spouse as well or the home office will most likely refuse the application of your children. You can search for a similar post on here where one spouse has been denied the children's application because the other spouse did not submit an application.

Hope this helps

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello Martin

Thank you for your reply . On my question no 1 , my clarfication is as under

I am planning for switching from Tier 4 to Tier 2 under the following .

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/switch-to-this-visa

PhD students

You must have completed at least 12 months’ study for your PhD during your most recent stay in the UK and had permission to take the qualification.

Once I get Tier 2 , I can free stay back in my own coutry and visit UK and university on need basis. My Current Tier 4 doesnot allow me this flexibility .

Is my understanding correct ?

Thank you

[martinstroke]

hello,

Unfortunately you cannot study with your tier 2 visa as this is will be a breach of the visa as this visa is only for the sole purpose of employment, hence this visa will not afford you the flexibility that you are requiring. Also, I assume that you are a non eu student, thus you will have to be in full time studies and cannot combine your studies with a tier 2 visa.

I will leave it to other moderators, to share their views on this.

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello Martin
I agree with you assessment of Tier 2 only being for work speific.

But PHD students under Tier 4 have been given specific switch option from Tier 4 to Tier 2 General.

https://www.gov.uk/tier-2-general/switch-to-this-visa

I have few months to go before complete 12 months into my PHD. Once that milestone is achieved as per my understanding the provision of above link will support me from conversion of Tier 4 to TIer 2 adn carry on my PHD.

What is your take on above ?

Thank you

[Frontier Mole]

To switch you still have to be Sponsored. It is not an independent route you can take yourself...
So what your trying to achieve is not possible

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello

There is no mention of sponsor in the Tier 2 Policy Guidance (Version 11/2015) { page 8 & 9 } .

Here is the extract from Tier 2 Ploicy Guidance

You can only switch into Tier 2 if you meet the following criteria:

-you must have successfully completed and passed a UK recognized bachelor s or
master s degree, Postgraduate Certificate in Education or Professional Graduate
Diploma of Education or have completed a minimum of 12 months study in the UK
towards a UK PhD during your current period of leave or a period of continuous leave1
which includes your last grant of leave; and
-you studied for the eligible award at a UK institution that is a UK recognized or listed
body, or an education provider which holds a license for sponsoring students under
Tier 4 of the Points-Based System; and
-you are applying from inside the UK.


1 A period of continuous leave includes grants of entry clearance where you applied no more than 28 days after your
previous leave lapsed and/or any periods of overstaying in the UK of no more than 28 days.


I think based on above the conversion from Tier 4 student to Tier 2 as a PHD student having completed 12 months should be possible ?

Moderater or other fellows comments please .
Thank you

[ouflak1]

Hello

There is no mention of sponsor in the Tier 2 Policy Guidance (Version 11/2015) { page 8 & 9 } .

Here is the extract from Tier 2 Ploicy Guidance

You can only switch into Tier 2 if you meet the following criteria:

-you must have successfully completed and passed a UK recognized bachelor s or
master s degree, Postgraduate Certificate in Education or Professional Graduate
Diploma of Education or have completed a minimum of 12 months study in the UK
towards a UK PhD during your current period of leave or a period of continuous leave1
which includes your last grant of leave; and
-you studied for the eligible award at a UK institution that is a UK recognized or listed
body, or an education provider which holds a license for sponsoring students under
Tier 4 of the Points-Based System; and
-you are applying from inside the UK.


1 A period of continuous leave includes grants of entry clearance where you applied no more than 28 days after your
previous leave lapsed and/or any periods of overstaying in the UK of no more than 28 days.


I think based on above the conversion from Tier 4 student to Tier 2 as a PHD student having completed 12 months should be possible ?

Moderater or other fellows comments please .
Thank you

It is possible to switch and this is a special arrangement for PhD students. The applicant still has to meet all of the other requirements of a Tier 2 visa including sponsorship by a company providing full time employment for a position that the applicant is expected to fill in accordance with the rules of visa. Perhaps you thought that this special allowance for PhD students meant that all of the other standard requirements for Tier 2 visa were somehow waived? This is not the case. It's not even implied.

[Frontier Mole]

So for the avoidance of doubt as I said before the OP view is that you don't need a Sponsor when you do.
Talk about not understanding the basics

[Casa]

+1 Spot on advice from ouflak1 & Frontier Mole. The OP would be wise to follow it.

[vinny]

Casa is correct.

(f) If applying as a Tier 2 (General) Migrant, the applicant must have a minimum of 50 points under paragraphs 76 to 79D of Appendix A.

[mansoorshahid77]

Hello ,

Thank you for all of you valuable inputs . I will have a discussion with Visa support team in the university and will share there feed back as well.

There is still no mention of sponsor in the Tier 2 plicy guidance , let see what unviersity visa support team says .

[ouflak1]

Hello ,

Thank you for all of you valuable inputs . I will have a discussion with Visa support team in the university and will share there feed back as well.

There is still no mention of sponsor in the Tier 2 policy guidance , let see what unviersity visa support team says .

The concept of a sponsor is fundamental to of the definition of a Tier 2 visa. It does not need to be mentioned repeatedly throughout the policy guidance.

[vinny]

Sponsors are mentioned at the beginning.

In 2. Eligibility and

Eligibility
4. You must have a job offer and a Certificate of Sponsorship from an organisation that is a licensed sponsor in the UK. You can only have a job offer if you will not be displacing a suitable settled worker. This means that employers cannot offer a job to a non-settled worker if it means that a suitable settled worker will be turned down for the job or made redundant.

and

To be eligible under Tier 2 the applicant must have a:
• skilled job offer
• certificate of sponsorship from an organisation that is a licensed sponsor in the UK

Most importantly, in the Immigration rules.

[Frontier Mole]

This is a classic case of reading guidance in an extracted format without reference to the whole guidance. Then trying desperately to fit your interpretation of that extract of guidance to meet your needs.

You can not, repeat not, access Tier 2 without a job offer, a COS and a Sponsor.

As a PhD holder you don't suddenly become a Tier 2 visa holder by default. I am struggling to see how you have failed to grasp this point, despite repeatedly being told, having the guidance presented to you and even the immigration rules.

At what point are you going to accept that your perception and interpretation of the Tier 2 guidance is wrong?