British passport when in possesion of expired EU passport

[Sylwianotts]

Hello, I have a bit of an unusual issue so would appreciate any advice.

I am Polish and my partner is British. I have recently applied for a British passport for our 3 year old, which she is eligible for given her dad's British nationality. I have sent everything, including her Polish expired passport, which we obtained at the Polish Consulate in the UK


Everything would be straightforward, except for the fact that we recently changed her surname to dad's (as opposed to mine) and this is not the name that she has on the expired Polish passport.

Today I received a letter saying that as she has a passport in another name, they cannot issue her with a British passport, and that I have to change her name to her current name on the Polish passport. Which I cannot do as it is expired! I do not wish to apply for a whole new Polish passport either.


I am sending them a letter tomorrow morning explaining all this, but I am dreading the common "there's nothing we can do". Has anyone even heard of such situation, where an applicant has to change a name on an expired passport, and how to handle this?


Thank you for all advice.

[CR001]

HMPO won't issue a first passport if the name is different to the foreign passport. It is their policy, see the link below which contains other links to useful information.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 84012.html

You will likely need to get a new Polish passport first.

[cs95tdg]

I do not wish to apply for a whole new Polish passport either

It may be worth enquiring whether the Polish embassy would cancel the expired Polish passport at your request. As it is only uncancelled passports that need to be submitted when making a British passport application.

[Sylwianotts]

I do not wish to apply for a whole new Polish passport either

It may be worth enquiring whether the Polish embassy would cancel the expired Polish passport at your request. As it is only uncancelled passports that need to be submitted when making a British passport application.

That sounds like a good idea, this way the application could go forward without the expired passport. Thanks, I will ring them tomorrow and find out!

[Sylwianotts]

HMPO won't issue a first passport if the name is different to the foreign passport. It is their policy, see the link below which contains other links to useful information.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 84012.html

You will likely need to get a new Polish passport first.

Hiya

Thanks for your reply, I had a brief read. It still seems a bit odd though, as even in the notes it says that if the documentation provided states a different name than the one on application (like in my case) they ask to provide evidence of name change, one being BC, which I did provide- and still, I receive a letter stating that they won't issue a passport if the name is different- like they're contradicting themselves... I mean, what about the women who get married but still have a passport in maiden name and send that over?

Hopefully the Embassy lets me cancel it on request as suggested by other poster...

[noajthan]

Hiya

Thanks for your reply, I had a brief read. It still seems a bit odd though, as even in the notes it says that if the documentation provided states a different name than the one on application (like in my case) they ask to provide evidence of name change, one being BC, which I did provide- and still, I receive a letter stating that they won't issue a passport if the name is different- like they're contradicting themselves... I mean, what about the women who get married but still have a passport in maiden name and send that over?

Hopefully the Embassy lets me cancel it on request as suggested by other poster...

Don't expect this to be simple; your mileage will vary - depending on home country &/or embassy.

Another brief read explains the lack of joined up thinking between HO & HMPO - and its impact on respectable, married women who's 'crime' is to change their name in 1 country & not in another:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 83170.html

[Sylwianotts]

Hiya

Thanks for your reply, I had a brief read. It still seems a bit odd though, as even in the notes it says that if the documentation provided states a different name than the one on application (like in my case) they ask to provide evidence of name change, one being BC, which I did provide- and still, I receive a letter stating that they won't issue a passport if the name is different- like they're contradicting themselves... I mean, what about the women who get married but still have a passport in maiden name and send that over?

Hopefully the Embassy lets me cancel it on request as suggested by other poster...

Don't expect this to be simple; your mileage will vary - depending on home country &/or embassy.

Another brief read explains the lack of joined up thinking between HO & HMPO - and its impact on respectable, married women who's 'crime' is to change their name in 1 country & not in another:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/britis ... 83170.html

Gosh, that sounds like a nightmare. I don't think I can work through all the pages in one go but I saw that your wife cancelled hers in the end.

That's what worries me though, I cant find anywhere on the internet if cancelling is even an option to request- when lost or stolen, yes, and I have to drive hours to personally deliver the news to the Embassy, plus at the moment, they don't have appointments till June. I was planning to fly mid April. I know, I know.

I though getting a British passport was going to be much more straightforward than the other option- driving down to the Embassy once I registered her British BC in Poland (if that's even possible, as I don't have an address there anymore or any family to go register the BC for me) etc etc.

Now that I've read the letter saying that no one with a passport, British or foreign, with a different name will be issued a British passport with a new name, I panic if this lack of common sense will reject my application every step of the way. She/he is ny assigned examiner, so all further correspondence will be going to her/him. No hope for someone more understanding.

I rang the helpline earlier and all they did was read out the letter to me from their screen and then aid I have to write back to the examiner.

I am no longer optimistic

[LilyLalilu]

It's sad to see that there is not more discretion for case workers when applying this new rule. I was hoping to add an extra letter to my first name once I get BC to anglicise my name but given that one of my passport countries (Germany) doesn't allow name changes I'm not sure how I'll ever manage to do this now (renouncing my German citizenship is not an option).
Does Poland allow name changes? If so, your only option seems to be to get a new Polish passport in the new name first before you child's British passport can be issued. If Poland doesn't allow name changes you will need to get the passport issued in the name that's on the Polish passport.

[Sylwianotts]

It's sad to see that there is not more discretion for case workers when applying this new rule. I was hoping to add an extra letter to my first name once I get BC to anglicise my name but given that one of my passport countries (Germany) doesn't allow name changes I'm not sure how I'll ever manage to do this now (renouncing my German citizenship is not an option).
Does Poland allow name changes? If so, your only option seems to be to get a new Polish passport in the new name first before you child's British passport can be issued. If Poland doesn't allow name changes you will need to get the passport issued in the name that's on the Polish passport.

Hiya.

I know, isn't it a bit of a nightmare when one country allows you to do something legally and the other doesn't accept these changes... Argh.

Poland from what I've read, Poland only allows name changes for important reasons, like name being insulting etc, not just because one fancies it. Also, apparently they don't approve changes by deed poll. Furthermore, (so I've heard) people with Polish citizenship can have problems entering Poland on a British Passport, even if they are eligible for either- Polish person, Polish passport, so to speak, but apparently it isn't always enforced at the borders? I've only read about this on forums though, so not sure how true this is.

A bit of an update, I rang the Polish consulate this morning, and they were just as confused as me. The lady said as the passport is expired, it is cancelled, not valid etc and they cannot cancel an expired passport, nor make any changes to it. Can only cancel valid passport when renewing or when lost or stolen.

So, that's what I am writing back to HMPO, hopefully they will accept that... OR more likely, they will say it has to be cancelled with the top corner cut off (Polish authorities don't do that) and I am stuck again :-/

[Sylwianotts]

Hi everyone,

Bit of an update.

Got a call from the passport office saying that as the passport is in a different name, I still have to get a whole new passport for my child in her current name.

I kept saying to him that the passport is cancelled, I shouldn't have sent it in the first place as it was not required etc- the guy's response was "Well, we cant pretend we haven't seen it now, you can still go and try get a passport in this name"

My response "It is cancelled, so no, I can't! A new passport requires a BC, therefore could only be in her current name"

To no avail. Telling him that by their own policy they don't take cancelled passports into the account didn't help. I am now waiting for a call from the manager.

Arghhh nightmare!!

[Sylwianotts]

Another update for those still enjoying my misfortune lol.

Had a few phone calls with some of the staff including a manager, as well as some emails with him.

They're not budging.

Explaining that the passport is already cancelled, that they don't take cancelled passports into the account as per own policy, that ai cant possibly get a Polish passport in the same name as the BC has current name on and it would need to be supplied, etc, all falling on deaf ears.

Funnily enough, when I spoke to the advisor, she said that cancelled passports dont matter even if sent with application, but as soon as she puts me through to people actually making these decisions, it's back to square one.
They don't seem bothered to even check the facts on the call as every person had to be reminded that it is expired, cancelled, cant change name, cant surrender citizenship (as suggested by 2 of them already) etc.

The manager agreed to being sent proof from the Polish Embassy that it is cancelled (as apparently they cant do checks like this and have to be sent proof) but that it will likely not help.

Another guy said that they do check, but still need physical proof and cant just accept what they see on the screen" :-S

So, I'm at loss.

On the bright side, I emailed my local MP and he actually replied, and will try and sort it for me! Fingers crossed, it would be amazing if he actually managed to do it.

Tbc...

[yoshi_jp]

Why don't you simply cut the upper right corner of the cover page and punch a few holes through the machine-readable area to "cancel" it yourself? After all, it's expired and the Polish diplomats have apparently told you that it had already been "cancelled", anyway. I don't think it's a criminal offence to destroy an expired document.

[Sylwianotts]

Why don't you simply cut the upper right corner of the cover page and punch a few holes through the machine-readable area to "cancel" it yourself? After all, it's expired and the Polish diplomats have apparently told you that it had already been "cancelled", anyway. I don't think it's a criminal offence to destroy an expired document.

You know what, that's what I am going to do and send it back to them in that condition. The whole process has been a whirl of madness anyway so there's every chance that it may well work with them they're delivering it tomorrow so I'll go find my scissors.

[Sylwianotts]

Update- it got worse

Whiel last week the manager said I need to have written confirmation from the Polish Mebqssy saying that the passport is cancelled and cannot be replaced in old name, now he changed his mind to me having to get a Polish passport first altogether. There is no legal requirement to have both, and obviously none of the things he and his team are saying are backed by policies that available to view.

I have sent him cut up passport today, but he said it doesn't matter that it is cancelled, and that I need Polish passport first.

This is complete shambles.

I spoke to another rude guy last week who said that if I sent the passport back to Embassy to keep, then my application will get processed, and although I confirmed with the Embassy that it isn't possible, cancelled passports are cut up and kept by owners- it still infuriates me that they just keep changing their requests to more and more ridiculous.

Arghh I think I'm going to scream.

[noajthan]

Update- it got worse

...

Arghh I think I'm going to scream.

May be time to go back & see your MP.

[Sylwianotts]

Hi,

He emailed me back just before Easter saying he will make enquiries after taking my details. I will chase him up again today.

Unfortunately, I stumbled upon the HMPO complaints page and it says to follow "complaint, then another complaint, then MP" procedure- not sure if I HAVE to, but being pessimistic I expect him to cone back to me saying I have to go through their own complaints procedure first. Each has 15 days waiting time. I already submitted the first, but that leaves me no possibility to fly on the 9th as booked... Yes I can always claim for the compensation if they admit the wrongdoing, but what if they don't? It is all very depressing

[Richard W]

Poland from what I've read, Poland only allows name changes for important reasons, like name being insulting etc, not just because one fancies it. Also, apparently they don't approve changes by deed poll.

Well, the source I've found says an example of a good reason is that "the current first or last name is ridiculous and degrading". Can you not argue that it is degrading for your daughter to have your surname rather than her father's, as it implies that she is an unacknowledged bastard? Furthermore, the reason for the name change is serious and not frivolous. It marks your daughter as part of her father's family.

[Sylwianotts]

Poland from what I've read, Poland only allows name changes for important reasons, like name being insulting etc, not just because one fancies it. Also, apparently they don't approve changes by deed poll.

Well, the source I've found says an example of a good reason is that "the current first or last name is ridiculous and degrading". Can you not argue that it is degrading for your daughter to have your surname rather than her father's, as it implies that she is an unacknowledged bastard? Furthermore, the reason for the name change is serious and not frivolous. It marks your daughter as part of her father's family.

Hiya, thanks for your post. Neither passport office is denying her the name change, sorry the whole thread sounds a bit chaotic. The post you quoted was in reply to a lady from Germany and I was just outlining what Poland is like when it comes to name changes etc in response to her post.

My issue is that my daughter has a cancelled passport in my name, now the BC is in her dad's name and they're asking that I get a new Polish passport in new name first, before they issue a British passport. They keep changing their mind though, before this they asked to surrender her citizenship, change name on old cancelled passport etc, so unless the policies change daily, their requests shouldn't either...

[Richard W]

Let us be fair to HMPO - we do not need to exaggerate. HMPO has an understandable but flawed policy on people's names, but they have very little policy on how people can conform. All they have is suggestions, but there are many different situations to cover. For example, with the problem of an old passport in a maiden name, married Thai ladies face very different procedures depending on whether they married in Thailand or abroad, and probably also on whether they are living in Thailand or abroad.

I presume now that your original problem is that you have booked a ticket in your daughter's new name. But for that, the correct approach would have been to renew the Polish passport, and attempt the name change (or perhaps in the opposite order). If the Polish authorities write to you refusing to change the name, you have won. You forward the letter (& translation) to the passport office explaining that the Polish authorities will not allow your daughter to use what is her legal name in Britain. She is then entitled to the 'also known as' observation in her British passport. If the Polish authorities change your daughter's surname, I hope you will also regard that as a victory.

[Sylwianotts]

Hi,

Yep, IF I renewed the passport in the old name then changed the name to what it is now, there would have been no problems, the Polish authorities would have rejected the change and I could then apply for British passport. IF I did it that way, it would have been fine (possibly).

But I have changed the name first, not expecting any issues, and I didn't renew the Polish passport because we dont want one. We are happy having just the British one for her, but they're refusing it.

I wonder if they would put her old, no longer in use surname as an observation on my request? I bet not, hmm.