Received decision letter today!

[Dimy77]

Hi people,

Today, exactly to the day 6 months after we applied for a residence card for my (brasilian) wife we finally received the decision letter.

Like other people have posted before us, my wife has been denied a residence card, but given the court case circumstances she has been approved for a Stamp 4 for a period of 2 years which will give her the right to live and work in Ireland.

With the holiday season coming we are delighted to finally have clearance about our future and although we were prepared for the worst and had alternatives, staying in Ireland was the best option.

Our situation:
EU Husband: Dutch
Non-EU Wife: Brasilian
Married on 14-04-2007 in Brasil
EU Husband was living and working in ireland since June 2003

My wife joined me in Ireland after our marriage and we never lived in another EU-member state.

Applied for EU1: May 16th 2007
Received decision Letter: November 16th 2007

In October, 4 months after our application I've send a reminder letter by registered post and added the following documents:

- Reference letter from my employer to prove my integrity and income
- Copy of VHI Healthcare amendment letter to prove that my wife is covered by my company's healthcare plan
- Copy of my wife's University Degree to prove her qualifications

Further, I threatened with legal action if we wouldn't receive a positive decision letter by November 16th on which date our application would be aged 6 months.

We never received an answer to this letter, but 2 weeks ago I've sent them an email with a copy of this letter in the attachment to remind them again about our application and intention to start legal proceedings.

They quickly replied to this email saying that applications could take up to 6 months (did they read my email I wonder?), so I replied to them they had only 12 days left to meet that deadline and we didn't receive an answer.

Last week I contacted Dutch Solvit, but they didn't tell us anything we didn't know already and didn't answer my 2nd email to them.

I was sceptical that they would meet the deadline, but today.... exactly the date of the deadline, we received the decision letter!

Here's a few interesting bulletpoints what may have helped our case:

* EU Spouse was already working and living in Ireland prior to marriage
* Marriage was in Brasil, country of origin of the Non-EU spouse
* On the date we applied for EU1, 16th of May 2007, my wife was legally in Ireland (her original stamp expired May 29th)
* My wife has been in Ireland on two previous occasions prior to marriage on a tourist stamp
* I have been in Brasil prior to our marriage on a tourist stamp

If I think of anything else that separates our case from couples who only received Stamp 3 I'll let you know.... For now this is all I can think of.

To all the people who are still waiting for this letter, all the best... I sincerely hope you'll receive the same letter very soon. I hope this will give you hope about a positive outcome.

For more information about our case I refer to a post on our blog 2 weeks ago: http://www.dgerards.net/pivot/entry.php?id=14

That reminds me.... I have to update our blog with the good news

Good luck to everyone! Especially with the holiday season coming... We'll hang around this forum for a while in case anybody has questions that are not answered.

[archigabe]

Congratulations!! Our situation is exactly the same as yours except we had applied 1 year ago and received the refusal letter in May without any offer of stamp3 or stamp4. My E.U spouse has been living in Ireland since 2002.

We were able to get a stamp3 last month after complaints to all and sundry. It seems they've changed their refusal policy because of the large number of complaints/court cases.

[microlab]

she has been approved for a Stamp 4 for a period of 2 years

Congrtas!

[cowper]

hi
We had our decision letter exactly six months after our application as well. Lucky enough we had a positive answer as we were living in Greece before. So it takes exactly six months. We were in a different situation as we were not married before coming in Ireland, we just got married a few weeks ago. However they asked just to justify 2 years of relationship.
All the best for those who are still waiting for an answer.

[yankeegirl]

Dimy what a wonderful way to start the holidays! Best of luck to you both

[camilachimelo]

Hey Dimmy77!
First of all:Congrats for u 2!!!As a brazilian myself, I understand the importance of that, especially on the hollyday season! Unfortunatelly, my letter was a NO!To be more especific, TODAY!I'm in the exact same situationas your wife, the only difference is that my husband is italian.As u can imagine, we're absolutelly terrified... so, if u don't mind, as u said you were prepared for the worst, what should we do now?Any idea of how to appel to that? Thank's in advance!!!!

[Dimy77]

Hey Dimmy77!
First of all:Congrats for u 2!!!As a brazilian myself, I understand the importance of that, especially on the hollyday season! Unfortunatelly, my letter was a NO!To be more especific, TODAY!I'm in the exact same situationas your wife, the only difference is that my husband is italian.As u can imagine, we're absolutelly terrified... so, if u don't mind, as u said you were prepared for the worst, what should we do now?Any idea of how to appel to that? Thank's in advance!!!!

Well....our backup plan was going to the UK or Brasil. If your husband works in the north of Dublin you might even move to Northern Ireland and commute (some people are doing this). For us that was no option as I work in the south of Dublin and communiting would be a hell. If you do decide to move to the UK get a Stamp 3 first if you haven't already.

[Ark]

Anyone else got letters like this one? Your case sounds very similar to mine, but I got denied a few months ago without any offer for stamp 4 - Wonder if they've changed the policy and it'd be worth heading to the Garda...

[Dimy77]

These letters have been sent to people since june I think (check these forums), but until now nobody has figured out what criteria the GNIB is using to decide whether someone is getting this stamp or not....
We've asked the Immigrant Cpuncil about this, and they had no clue, they even denied existance of such letters as "Stamp 4" would be the same as a Residence Card, so you couldn't be denied for residence but receive Stamp 4 at the same time (note: this is what Immigrant Council told us, not my thoughts). Once we have the stamp and the GNIB card I will forward the letter we received to the Immigrant Council and see what they think of it.
I wouldn't say it's a change of policy, i think it's more of a gamble and sheer luck .
You say your case is very similar to ours...so what separates your case from ours? Maybe there's a clue...

[santiago1974]

I received my denied letter on August 2007 and when I went to Garda they gave me stamp 3 for one year. At that time I also knew on some cases getting stamp 4 but I guess it is just mere luck. I am trying to get residence in my wife's country, just waiting for the results. Do you know if by presenting a resident card from another EU country would be enough to overturn the decision of DOJ? They do not specify the time you have to reside, it just says that you have to be lawfully resident in another member state, so by having a resident card I comply with the rule, is that right? thanxs

[archigabe]

These letters have been sent to people since june I think (check these forums), but until now nobody has figured out what criteria the GNIB is using to decide whether someone is getting this stamp or not....
We've asked the Immigrant Cpuncil about this, and they had no clue, they even denied existance of such letters as "Stamp 4" would be the same as a Residence Card, so you couldn't be denied for residence but receive Stamp 4 at the same time (note: this is what Immigrant Council told us, not my thoughts). Once we have the stamp and the GNIB card I will forward the letter we received to the Immigrant Council and see what they think of it.
I wouldn't say it's a change of policy, i think it's more of a gamble and sheer luck

We were offered an out-of court settlement by the DOJ to drop our case against them by offering us the same 'dodgy' 2 year stamp4. I don't know how reliable this stamp4 can be in a couple of years time.

[brownbonno]

Archigabe,
An Out of Court settlement is to your advantage.You have to accept the 2 years with a clause-
*The DoJ should give you a specific reason why am 5 years permit is not possible.
*Request a compensation for lost of earnings.
wish you the best.

[Dimy77]

We were offered an out-of court settlement by the DOJ to drop our case against them by offering us the same 'dodgy' 2 year stamp4. I don't know how reliable this stamp4 can be in a couple of years time.

Well...that's your decision, we are very happy with this stamp "dodgy" as it may be. Our long term plans are not in Ireland and probably have left Ireland before this 2 years expires anyway.
I don't understand why you wouldn't accept this 2 year stamp.... this means you're out of worries for the next 2 years and improve your quality of life as a family as you can both work and have a double income. Unless you prefer sitting at home feeling sorry for yourself..... I think a lot of people would be very happy to accept that settlement you've been offered!

[microlab]

We were offered an out of court settlement by the DOJ to drop our case against them by offering us the same 'dodgy' 2 year stamp 4...I don't know if this stamp 4 is something they just made up on the spur of the moment to keep us quiet, and how reliable it can be in a couple of year's time when it has no real legal backing.

Grab what you can.
If you remember I said that was the way they used to do things prior to EU1 debacle.Stamp 4 was issued usually for 1 year at the time.(my wife had one twice renewed).I cant see how they can revoke it in the future if you were granted in the first place(residence).
Well done!

[archigabe]

We were offered an out-of court settlement by the DOJ to drop our case against them by offering us the same 'dodgy' 2 year stamp4. I don't know how reliable this stamp4 can be in a couple of years time.

I think a lot of people would be very happy to accept that settlement you've been offered!

To be honest, we prefer to get our full rights, and not some compromise with something which we are not happy about.If everybody cuts and runs with a bad compromise the DOJ will be free to carry on with their crappy attitude treating E.U/Non E.U couples like sh**t. This is also for the other people who have not been able to go to court. We would like bring some change to the system and call the government's attitude to account.We intend to go all the way in the courts to get the full 5 year residency,damages and full costs to our solicitors.

We have not been stressing out in a small bedsit for a whole year and spent time and effort with solicitors to get a lousy compromise.We don't want to go year after year to the GNIB and hope the guy is in a good mood to renew the residency.We have been humiliated enough by those jerks.

We know that the DOJ has already settled with other couples in out of court settlements when their case has been strong.This is a deliberate strategy to keep strong cases out of the courts and to use weak cases like the Kumar case as a precedent.
The net result of that is that they have been free to keep other people in misery and there has been no change in the system.

[yankeegirl]

Archigabe, I have to say I really admire your cajones and best of luck to you and your spouse!

[archigabe]

Thanks Yankeegirl...here's hoping that there won't be too much delay.
I have been told that they sometimes send guards to check the people who have gone to the court to see if they are living together as a couple...I wish they'd had the sense to do this in the beginning and not had to drag everyone through this mess.

[microlab]

We would like bring some change to the system and call the government's attitude to account.

Good luck mate!

[Dimy77]

My fear in your action is that by not accepting this 2 years stamp you are potentially ruining the chance to have a normal life for other couples who would love to get this stamp if the Government decides to discontinue issueing this stamp altogether and just wait for all the court cases that are dragging on forever.

In all fairness....if we wouldn't have received this stamp 4 I'd be pretty angry with you for not accepting this offer.

But it's your life and your decision so I wish you all the best with the legal proceedings and hope for a positive outcome for you and your wife.

[brownbonno]

Archigabe,

I will be pleased if you have the total courage to pursue this case to the court.It will help the DoJ to re-write their agenda.I know is not an easy course but it worth taking for posterity sake.
We support you in prayers.

[Ark]

These letters have been sent to people since june I think (check these forums), but until now nobody has figured out what criteria the GNIB is using to decide whether someone is getting this stamp or not....
We've asked the Immigrant Cpuncil about this, and they had no clue, they even denied existance of such letters as "Stamp 4" would be the same as a Residence Card, so you couldn't be denied for residence but receive Stamp 4 at the same time (note: this is what Immigrant Council told us, not my thoughts). Once we have the stamp and the GNIB card I will forward the letter we received to the Immigrant Council and see what they think of it.
I wouldn't say it's a change of policy, i think it's more of a gamble and sheer luck .
You say your case is very similar to ours...so what separates your case from ours? Maybe there's a clue...

Just a few differences between your case and mine:

1- Nationalities, I'm Italian, wife is American.

2- We were married for a bit longer before moving here, 2 years, we lived in the USA during this time.

3- We moved together, I hadn't lived and/or worked in Ireland previously to our move.

4- We applied in January 2007, received response around August if I recall correctly (don't have letter here).

5- I never sent a reminder letter, although I was asked all those bits and pieces of info you sent when we went to the Gardai to get a stamp 1.

That's pretty much it I think.

[archigabe]

My fear in your action is that by not accepting this 2 years stamp you are potentially ruining the chance to have a normal life for other couples who would love to get this stamp if the Government decides to discontinue issueing this stamp altogether and just wait for all the court cases that are dragging on forever.

I think you are overly cautious. Atleast in your case they responded to your appeals, and there are plenty of court cases besides ours and other people who have accepted out of court settlements.

As far as our situation goes, we have been sending numerous appeals for the last year,letters from the TD and they didn't respond to a single letter...Not a single one,they completely ignored us.

Even when our solicitor sent a pre trial letter stating our intention to go to court, they just sent them (solicitors) a letter that we should be happy we had the stamp3 which we had got only after much grief and humiliation when we had done nothing wrong. We felt everyday that the official in charge of our case seemed to have some animosity or personal prejudice against us...Only when the judged decided we had valid grounds for going to court, they had a sudden change of heart and gave us a lousy compromise with just a 2 year stamp4 and costs. We have a baby and we cannot live on a yearly basis, and besides I never want to see the faces of those jerks at the GNIB again. I hope the dearly beloved person in charge of our case learns the cost of prejudice.