Claim for Canadian citizenship?

[yankeegirl]

Im actually posting this for someone else.

My neighbor is 19 (born in 1988). Her maternal grandfather is a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada.

Her mother was born in 1966 in Northern Ireland in 1966 to above-mentioned Canadian and an Irish/British mother. The Canadian father left NI after military duty was done and returned to Canada. He was not initially listed on the birth certificate. A few years ago, my neighbor's mom met her father. They had DNA tests done and he has now been added to her birth certificate. She plans to apply for Canadian citizenship but hasn't yet.

Her daughter (my neighbor) wants to know if she qualifies to apply for Canadian citizenship. We looked up the Canadian citizenship website but it didn't really clear anything up. There was a section that if you are born to a Canadian parent abroad who was also born to a Canadian abroad there are certain steps to take before age 28 in order to retain citizenship. I guess what I need to know is if her mom would have been a Canadian citizen from birth even though she has never applied for a passport or anything? If not, then I'm assuming that my neighbor has no claim to citizenship?

Sorry for the long post!

[JAJ]

Im actually posting this for someone else.

My neighbor is 19 (born in 1988). Her maternal grandfather is a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada.

Her mother was born in 1966 in Northern Ireland in 1966 to above-mentioned Canadian and an Irish/British mother. The Canadian father left NI after military duty was done and returned to Canada. He was not initially listed on the birth certificate. A few years ago, my neighbor's mom met her father. They had DNA tests done and he has now been added to her birth certificate. She plans to apply for Canadian citizenship but hasn't yet.

Her daughter (my neighbor) wants to know if she qualifies to apply for Canadian citizenship. We looked up the Canadian citizenship website but it didn't really clear anything up. There was a section that if you are born to a Canadian parent abroad who was also born to a Canadian abroad there are certain steps to take before age 28 in order to retain citizenship. I guess what I need to know is if her mom would have been a Canadian citizen from birth even though she has never applied for a passport or anything? If not, then I'm assuming that my neighbor has no claim to citizenship?

Sorry for the long post!

It's not looking too hopeful for the daughter.

Regarding the mother, prior to 15 February 1977, acquisition of Canadian citizenship by descent required registration at a Canadian consulate. From what you say she was never registered, so was never Canadian.

Also, at the time (before 1977) an out-of-wedlock father couldn't pass on Canadian citizenship anyway.

There was a facility post-1977 to make an application for late registration of Canadian citizenship, but this closed to new applicants on 14 August 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law


There is some prospect of new legislation that will help the mother:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department ... 05-29a.asp


For the daughter, her problem is that her mother was not Canadian when she was born, so she is not a Canadian by descent. IF the new legislation retrospectively makes her mother a Canadian citizen then she might have some hope going forward.

Otherwise if her mother gets her Canadian citizenship while she is still a "dependent", then she could perhaps be sponsored to migrate to Canada in the Family Class.

[yankeegirl]

Thanks for that JAJ.

Regarding the mother, prior to 15 February 1977, acquisition of Canadian citizenship by descent required registration at a Canadian consulate. From what you say she was never registered, so was never Canadian.

Also, at the time (before 1977) an out-of-wedlock father couldn't pass on Canadian citizenship anyway.

There was a facility post-1977 to make an application for late registration of Canadian citizenship, but this closed to new applicants on 14 August 2004.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law

That's the part I thought I had read somewhere, but couldn't find it last night.

[lilirere]

Hi,

I think I can help you since I am personally in a situation very like the girl you describe. I was born in 1981, and my mother was born in 1954 (both in the US). My maternal grandparents were Canadian, but they never registered my mother's birth. She didn't realize that she could apply for citizenship until a couple of years ago.
She applied for hers, and, after that, I've applied to register and retain my citizenship under section 8 (which is currently being processed). Section 8 is for people like us: second generation people born after 1977 to parents who could have been registered as Canadian citizens but were not. She must register and retain before the age of 28.
I'm pretty sure that she'll have to move to Canada for a year before she applies (you need to establish ties with the country), so she has to be committed to the idea.

Based on how I went about it, I think that the easiest way for your friend to do this is the following:

1) Have her mother apply for her citizenship certificate ASAP (these things take a LONG time to process)
2) Have the daughter come to Canada on a student visa (I did my undergraduate university education here, but even college programs work for these purposes)
3) After living here on a student visa for one year, the daughter can make an application to register and retain citizenship (provided her Mum's stuff is all done by then)

My neighbor is 19 (born in 1988). Her maternal grandfather is a Canadian citizen, born and raised in Canada.

Her mother was born in 1966 in Northern Ireland in 1966 to above-mentioned Canadian and an Irish/British mother. The Canadian father left NI after military duty was done and returned to Canada. He was not initially listed on the birth certificate. A few years ago, my neighbor's mom met her father. They had DNA tests done and he has now been added to her birth certificate. She plans to apply for Canadian citizenship but hasn't yet.

Her daughter (my neighbor) wants to know if she qualifies to apply for Canadian citizenship. We looked up the Canadian citizenship website but it didn't really clear anything up. There was a section that if you are born to a Canadian parent abroad who was also born to a Canadian abroad there are certain steps to take before age 28 in order to retain citizenship. I guess what I need to know is if her mom would have been a Canadian citizen from birth even though she has never applied for a passport or anything? If not, then I'm assuming that my neighbor has no claim to citizenship?

[JAJ]

Hi,

I think I can help you since I am personally in a situation very like the girl you describe. I was born in 1981, and my mother was born in 1954 (both in the US). My maternal grandparents were Canadian, but they never registered my mother's birth. She didn't realize that she could apply for citizenship until a couple of years ago.

But the problem is that it is now too late for the mother to register her Canadian citizenship. That was closed on 14 August 2004.

There is some hope with the new proposed legislation in Canada although that will only help the mother, not the daughter, as they are going to limit citizenship to the first generation born abroad.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department ... -12-10.asp

[infocat13]

would the new law affect pre 1948 canadians who naturlized?

[JAJ]

would the new law affect pre 1948 canadians who naturlized?

Affect in what way?

And I think you mean pre-1947 cases ...

[infocat13]

would the new law affect pre 1948 canadians who naturlized?

Affect in what way?

And I think you mean pre-1947 cases ...

MY mother became a us citizen before the 1947 canadian citizenship law. the citizenship canada site has confusing language as to will she be a (retroactively) a canadian from when she lost it.
yes she is a pre 1947 case.I am the first generation

[JAJ]

MY mother became a us citizen before the 1947 canadian citizenship law. the citizenship canada site has confusing language as to will she be a (retroactively) a canadian from when she lost it.
yes she is a pre 1947 case.I am the first generation

She never lost Canadian citizenship because she never had it in the first place. She lost her British nationality when she became a U.S. citizen.

As far as I can tell there is no benefit to people in this situation.

[oldmedic]

I am also wondering if this new law applies to me and to my two older siblings.

My father (and his entire family line for 150 years back) was born in Canada. He came to the States, as an illegal alien, and just lived and worked there. He married an American woman, and had three kids from that marriage, all born before 1947. He never took American citizenship.

They divorced, he remarried and had three more kids of his 2nd marriage, and adopted his 2nd wife's son from her first marriage in 1953.

It is my understanding that all of us became Canadian citizens in 1947, or upon birth/adoption, but that each of us lost that citizenship because we did not register that citizenship on or before our 24th birthdays.

I know that the new law (Bill C-37) applies to the younger siblings. BUT, does it also apply to the older ones? All of us were "born abroad", and the language is just a little bit vague on this point.

[markdrocker]

I am also wondering if this new law applies to me and to my two older siblings...

Hi oldmedic, I replied to your posts in the other thread at http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=28007

.

[jezicar]

Hello

I'm wondering if anyone can help me, i'm not entirely sure if my situation fits this example but I'll have a go explaining.

I am a bristish citizen born in 1986. In 1989 my parents moved me to Canada where we lived for just over two and a half years before returning to the UK. My father has canadian citizenship and his mother was born and raised in Canada as were her parents. (My mother has british and irish ancestory)

My father acquired his citizenship in 1987 even though he was eligible from birth.

Does any of this help me in applying for citizenship? I am interested in returning to canada for university study, possibly permenantly.

Any information would be really useful, i didn't have much luck diciphering the immigration website.

Thanks!

Jess

[JAJ]

Hello

I'm wondering if anyone can help me, i'm not entirely sure if my situation fits this example but I'll have a go explaining.

I am a bristish citizen born in 1986. In 1989 my parents moved me to Canada where we lived for just over two and a half years before returning to the UK. My father has canadian citizenship and his mother was born and raised in Canada as were her parents. (My mother has british and irish ancestory)

My father acquired his citizenship in 1987 even though he was eligible from birth.

Does any of this help me in applying for citizenship? I am interested in returning to canada for university study, possibly permenantly.

The key issue here is was your father a Canadian citizen when you were born.

This is important because if he was granted (naturalised) Canadian, then it is effective only from date of registration. But if it's a delayed registration of birth, then it's retrospective to when he was born.

What exactly does it say on his citizenship document? (removing personal details).

And did they not try to get you a Canadian passport when you were in Canada?

[jezicar]

Hi

Thanks for your help! I've spoken with my father who has given me a copy of his certificate of citizenship.

He has delayed citizenship from birth, registered 10 June 1988, when I was nearly two. He was born in 1956.

His certificate, apart from the registration number and date, says the following.

Under the provisions of the citizenship act, a Canadian citizen is entitled to all the rights and privileges and is subject to all the duties and responsibilities of being a Canadian Citizen. The person named herein, having taken the oath of citizenship or allegiance where applicable became a Canadian citizen on the date indicated below.

As a family we lived in Canada from September 1989 - April 1992. Apparently my parents were told nothing could be done about my citizenship until we have lived there for 3 full years. I am unsure how aware they were of my dads ancestory at the time.

Does any of this information help at all? I'm happy to dig up more details if needed.

Thank you!

[JAJ]

Hi

Thanks for your help! I've spoken with my father who has given me a copy of his certificate of citizenship.

He has delayed citizenship from birth, registered 10 June 1988, when I was nearly two. He was born in 1956.

His certificate, apart from the registration number and date, says the following.

Under the provisions of the citizenship act, a Canadian citizen is entitled to all the rights and privileges and is subject to all the duties and responsibilities of being a Canadian Citizen. The person named herein, having taken the oath of citizenship or allegiance where applicable became a Canadian citizen on the date indicated below.

Doesn't that sound like your father only became Canadian in 1988?

Was it a delayed registration of birth, or a grant of Canadian citizenship? The distinction is very important.

As a family we lived in Canada from September 1989 - April 1992. Apparently my parents were told nothing could be done about my citizenship until we have lived there for 3 full years. I am unsure how aware they were of my dads ancestory at the time.

Does any of this information help at all? I'm happy to dig up more details if needed.

Thank you!

In that case it was wrong advice - the 3 year residence requirement does not apply to a child with permanent resident status + at least one Canadian parent.

[jezicar]

Maybe I don't understand the term, but I believe it is delayed registration from birth.

His mother was born and raised in Toronto and as the law was at the time, he was entitled to register his citizenship from his birth in 1956 - present day.

Does the fact he actually registered it in 1988 affect my entitlement, seeing as he could have easily registered it before I was born?

Also does the fact I would have been eligible at the time of living in Canada make any difference?

[JAJ]

Maybe I don't understand the term, but I believe it is delayed registration from birth.

His mother was born and raised in Toronto and as the law was at the time, he was entitled to register his citizenship from his birth in 1956 - present day.

Does the fact he actually registered it in 1988 affect my entitlement, seeing as he could have easily registered it before I was born?

But was he entitled from birth? Prior to 15 February 1977, Canadian citizenship by descent could normally only come from the father, unless parents were unmarried.

In 1977, the new Citizenship Act changed the law only for those born on or after the effective date. However, sections 3(1)(e) and 4(2) of the Act preserved the entitlement to register as citizens for those born before 15 Feb 1977. This was originally intended to be for 2 years, but was extended out to 14 August 2004.

For those born before 1977 to Canadian mothers, provision was made in section 5(2)(b) of the Act for grant of Canadian citizenship. In other words, naturalisation on the same basis as that given to migrants, just without the normal residence period. This also was closed to new applicants on 14 August 2004.

Did you father have to take the oath of Canadian citizenship?

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/r ... -c-29.html

Based on all the above, it appears your father is a naturalised Canadian. Hence, if you were born before he became Canadian then you are not eligible for Canadian citizenship. You probably should get an opinion in writing from a Canadian immigration lawyer, just to be sure.

Also does the fact I would have been eligible at the time of living in Canada make any difference?

Unfortunately no, not as far as I can see.

BUT - there may be a sliver of hope for you. You were (presumably) a permanent resident when you were in Canada.

Normally, you need 2 years in every 5 years physically in Canada to retain your permanent resident status.

However, it well be that your permanent resident status is still valid, because until you were age 22 you were (presumably, again) accompanying a Canadian citizen parent outside Canada. Hence, until you were age 22, the time counted as if you were in Canada.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... 5445EA.asp

I don't know if you still have to be under 22 to use this concession but I don't see anything in section 28 of the Immigration Act mandating this:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/s ... -c-27.html

Since you turned 22, the clock would have stopped ticking but you still may be ok - at least for now.

Would you be interested in moving to Canada in the near future if you could obtain confirmation that your permanent resident status is still valid?

[jezicar]

Yes my father did take an oath of citizenship, I think you're right from what you're saying it sounds like i've missed out in that respect.

But that's very interesting about the permenant residence status, i'll have to make some fairly urgent calls to the High Commission in London tomorrow. I assume that's the best place to start?

I would be very interested in making the move sometime this year, i'm in the perfect position for it right now having graduated with no long term commitments. Thanks for your help JAJ!

[JAJ]

But that's very interesting about the permenant residence status, i'll have to make some fairly urgent calls to the High Commission in London tomorrow. I assume that's the best place to start?

I would be very interested in making the move sometime this year, i'm in the perfect position for it right now having graduated with no long term commitments. Thanks for your help JAJ!

I doubt you will get to speak to anyone in person at the High Commission.

Best thing I can advise is to prepare an application for a Travel Document for Permanent Residents. Have you got any evidence of having been admitted to Canada as a landed immigrant back in 1989?

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/missions/u ... nu-eng.asp

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/informatio ... travel.asp

In your supporting documentation (and on the form) you should make it clear that your time up to age 22 was accompanying a Canadian citizen parent outside Canada. As you are age 22+ there is no guarantee they will accept this interpretation but you should try. If not, find a good Canadian immigration lawyer.

Make copies of critical documents, in case they get lost and use a courier rather than regular post. As far as I know, London does accept this kind of application in person and that is preferable.

The fee for a travel document is C$50/GBP30 and processing time is usually fairly quick.

If successful, you will receive a single entry visa valid for 6 months to travel to Canada. Once there, you can apply for a Permanent Resident Card. After 3 years, Canadian citizenship.

Good luck.

[jezicar]

Hello again

Surely I could do this anyway as a landed immigrant? Or does it effectively bypass the need for say a work or study visa?

I've also had a free asessment with canadianrelocationsolutions.com and they have stated that under the new laws coming into effect this April I would be eligible for 'retained citizenship'.

They wouldn't quote any laws or reasons without charging a fee, do you know anything about this?

Thanks again for your help!

[JAJ]

Hello again

Surely I could do this anyway as a landed immigrant? Or does it effectively bypass the need for say a work or study visa?

I've also had a free asessment with canadianrelocationsolutions.com and they have stated that under the new laws coming into effect this April I would be eligible for 'retained citizenship'.

They wouldn't quote any laws or reasons without charging a fee, do you know anything about this?

Thanks again for your help!

You can read about the new Act for yourself at:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenshi ... enship.asp

As you are second generation born overseas, I cannot see how you will benefit.

But you need to take advice from whichever source suits you best.

Have you collected enough evidence to support a claim to re-activate your permanent resident status?

[jezicar]

Hello

I have been reading section 8 of the new regulations, which seem to very nearly fit my situation.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenshi ... bility.asp

If I have understood this correctly, I have missed out on a simple 'retention' because my father registered his citizenship after I was born. Also I would have been too young when we lived there for this time to count towards an eligibility to retain.

I think the only option now would be for me to move out to Canada and live there for a year before applying to 'retain' my citizenship, obviously before I turn 28?

In regards to re-activating my permenant resident status, I do not seem to have any proof of this. My father flew out to canada before my mum and I - he was interviewed by a canadian immigration officer who granted him permenant resident status. I believe we just joined him a few weeks later. The only documents he holds is his registration of citizenship.

[JAJ]

Hello

I have been reading section 8 of the new regulations, which seem to very nearly fit my situation.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenshi ... bility.asp

If I have understood this correctly, I have missed out on a simple 'retention' because my father registered his citizenship after I was born. Also I would have been too young when we lived there for this time to count towards an eligibility to retain.

I think the only option now would be for me to move out to Canada and live there for a year before applying to 'retain' my citizenship, obviously before I turn 28?

How can you "retain" Canadian citizenship when all the evidence suggests that since your father became naturalised Canadian after you were born, then you were never Canadian in the first place?

In regards to re-activating my permenant resident status, I do not seem to have any proof of this. My father flew out to canada before my mum and I - he was interviewed by a canadian immigration officer who granted him permenant resident status. I believe we just joined him a few weeks later. The only documents he holds is his registration of citizenship.

Are you saying that you and your mother arrived as tourists and overstayed (illegally)?

[jezicar]

I have been advised that 'retention' is the wording they use in the new regulations even if you have never techinically 'had' canadian citizenship.

As I understand it, the old laws would allow someone in this situation (second generation abroad, who did have a Canadian parent at birth) to automatically register the citizenship. But the new laws would see them lose that right if they did not register it before the age of 28. In that way it is retention of a right.

Are you saying that you and your mother arrived as tourists and overstayed (illegally)?

No, that is not what i'm saying... I think we have exhausted all avenues of assistance if it has come to this.

Thank you for your help.

[JAJ]

I have been advised that 'retention' is the wording they use in the new regulations even if you have never techinically 'had' canadian citizenship.

As I understand it, the old laws would allow someone in this situation (second generation abroad, who did have a Canadian parent at birth) to automatically register the citizenship. But the new laws would see them lose that right if they did not register it before the age of 28. In that way it is retention of a right.

If your father had been Canadian by descent when you were born then the following situations would apply:

- born before 17 April 1981 : Canadian citizen, but subject to loss at age 28 (and not recoverable under the new Act if lost)
- born between 17 April 1981 and 16 April 2009 : Canadian citizen by descent
- born on or after 17 April 2009 : not a Canadian citizen, but could be sponsored to Canada as an immigrant and then naturalised.

Now in your case it appears to be different because your father became a naturalised Canadian, so if you had a sibling born afterwards, sibling would be Canadian by descent and not subject to retention rules.

Don't take my word for it. Take a look at:

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/r ... -c-29.html

the new version has not been consolidated yet so you need to look at:
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublication ... e=e&Mode=1

Are you saying that you and your mother arrived as tourists and overstayed (illegally)? ....

No, that is not what i'm saying... I think we have exhausted all avenues of assistance if it has come to this.

Thank you for your help.

I didn't mean to make a remark that sounded pejorative but there are only two possibilities ... either your mother and you had the proper paperwork for your time in Canada (permanent resident status) or you didn't. I don't believe Canada had any kind of "temporary resident status" for spouses.

You would be surprised how many spouses show up in countries like Canada and Australia as tourists and just stay on with no permission - it always leads to a mess (at minimum) and some very sad stories (at worst).

So you really need to know what the facts are surrounding that time in Canada - permanent residence, or tourist status leading to overstay. It does impact your options now!



There may be a final option available for you ... are you still financially dependent on your father? If so, he could possibly sponsor you for dependent child migration, especially if he is planning to return to Canada himself.
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/ ... p#children

Is this an option?

If not, then you would have to think about if an "outside the rules" application relying on Minister's discretion might work, although this is probably very difficult.

I really think you need to find a good Canadian immigration lawyer to talk through all these options and confirm that things really are as they see. Finding such a lawyer won't be easy, unfortunately, as something of this complexity could well be beyond many who do not have direct experienced of this area.