denied visa, can i still go to the UK as a visitor? PLEASE H

[NJOK]

i had just been denied a visa after realizing that i probably didnt even need one ! i was worried about an old conviction but it wasnt even mentioned in my refusal notice. that was the whole reason i applied in the first place, i heard i could have been denied entry because of the charge so we called the embassy and they said i should apply for a visa to be on the safe side. i was denied with no right to appeal because they said i do not have "sufficient commitments in the US to prompt my timely departure from the UK". can i still go to the UK as a regular visitor or will i be turned away? is there anything i can do?? i was only planning on going for 3 weeks to be with the love of my life. heres the letter i had just wrote back to the embassy which will better explain my situation :



Hello, I have been planning a trip to the UK for the past few months. I was worried that I may not get entry clearance due to the fact that I had a criminal charge 11 years ago. I had called the Embassy to find out what I should do, and I was told to apply for a visitor visa that way id have guaranteed entry. I applied for the visa and was interviewed. To my surprise, the conviction wasnt even taken into consideration being that it was in a youth facility and that it was over 10 years ago, and wasn’t even mentioned in my reason for denial. This was the only reason I applied for the visa, so I basically did not even need to apply, but I just wanted to be honest about everything to avoid any problems. I have received my decision for my visa application today and it was denied for the reason that she "does not believe I have sufficient commitments in the US to prompt my timely departure from the UK", with no right to appeal. I strongly disagree with the decision based on the fact that upon reading it, some of the entry clearance officer's stated facts were incorrect and some of the information that I had provided with the application and during the interview were not taken into consideration. Today I received legal advice and was told that because some of the facts were incorrect, that it would have to be reconsidered based on all of the information provided. In the decision she states that I have never been to the UK, I have stated on the application that I have been to the UK. (which I can provide proof) She also stated that the letter from my job had said they cannot guarantee me being rehired upon my return but would like to rehire me, which is true but I have stated during my interview that if I am not rehired at *****y, I have another job waiting for me when I come back. ( which I can provide proof of). It was also stated that I was to be coming to the UK with 6-$700 dollars of my own money for the 3 weeks I would be staying, but the officer has stated she does not feel that its enough for me to accommodate myself without turning to public funds or work. I have provided proof that if need be, I have funds available from my fiance whom I am visiting ( approxamatley 3500 pounds) in which her bank statements were sent in with my application but were not taken into consideration during the interview and were also not mailed back to me with the decision. I feel that is more than enough money for the 3 weeks that I have planned on visiting, without turning to public funds. It also states that i have yet to establish myself in terms of property or family commitments. I do not own land, however I am under contract with my lease for my apartment for a minimum of 12 months. ( which I can provide proof of) I do own 3 vehicles (which I can provide proof of) and all of my family is here in the U.S. She stated that i do not have sufficient commitments in the U.S., I manage and sing in a very well known successful rock band here, in which all the members live in the US. I have alot of commitments to the band, including 5 up and coming concert dates in which we are booked all the way up until may of 2008,and studio time booked here to record for our new record deal, all of which I can provide proof of if need be. Since some of her facts are incorrect, and some of my supporting evidence was not taken into consideration, i beg of you to please consider a possible re-interview or reconsider the decision for my application. I do have many reasons to come back to the U.S. I will provide any proof or documentation at your request. Thank you for your time.

[Wanderer]

Mentioning you have a fiancee in the UK wasn't a good idea, the ECO's will assume an intention to settle.

I think the only practical way in now is via a fiance or spouse visa.

[VictoriaS]

i think I may have spoken to you girlfriend yesterday, and recommended that you apply for administrative review on the basis that they have crucial facts wrong.

Victoria

[SYH]

I dont know what nationality you are and why you felt you need to apply for a visitor visa.
Now you state that you probably didnt need one and could just try go and be a regular visitor?
If you have that option and your nationality is of the sort that they generally don't check unless you act shifty at the border, then I guess you can get through.
However that just begs the question why you applied for a formal visa in the first place. I wouldn't have applied for a conviction so the story really doesnt make sense.

[VictoriaS]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

[SYH]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

You missed my point Victoria
If he thinks he can just go staight there without apply for a formal visa
then he should have done that beforehand
I dont see why you are consistenly contrary to everything I have to say.
And maybe you should let him elaborate and how it makes sense, this is the problem, the author needs to be able to articulate for himself or how can he represent and defend himself properly.
probably that's how he got turned around and applied for a visa he didnt need in the first place.

[INSIDER]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

You missed my point Victoria
If he thinks he can just go staight there without apply for a formal visa
then he should have done that beforehand
I dont see why you are consistenly contrary to everything I have to say.
And maybe you should let him elaborate and how it makes sense, this is the problem, the author needs to be able to articulate for himself or how can he represent and defend himself properly.
probably that's how he got turned around and applied for a visa he didnt need in the first place.

SYH,

His explanation as to why he applied for a visa makes perfect sense to me too. Maybe you should read it again.

As for your statement that he will be able to get entry now unless he acts shifty, that is duff advice. I can guarantee him 101% that should he seek entry as a visitor or indeed any other category without a visa/Entry Clearance he will be refused and returned. Probably on the very aircraft he arrived on.

As Victoria said his option is to seek a JR or altenatively hope that his representations to the embassy are accepted and the decision reversed.

[SYH]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

You missed my point Victoria
If he thinks he can just go staight there without apply for a formal visa
then he should have done that beforehand
I dont see why you are consistenly contrary to everything I have to say.
And maybe you should let him elaborate and how it makes sense, this is the problem, the author needs to be able to articulate for himself or how can he represent and defend himself properly.
probably that's how he got turned around and applied for a visa he didnt need in the first place.

SYH,

His explanation as to why he applied for a visa makes perfect sense to me too. Maybe you should read it again.

As for your statement that he will be able to get entry now unless he acts shifty, that is duff advice. I can guarantee him 101% that should he seek entry as a visitor or indeed any other category without a visa/Entry Clearance he will be refused and returned. Probably on the very aircraft he arrived on.
.

I suggest you reread what i wrote and the specific question as to doing what he now wants to do in the first place. Dont give me your circular argument that he did it because, I want to know why he did just not apply like he feels like doing now. I know the consulate told him to but now he thinks he shouldn't have. Maybe you prefer I tell him hind sight is 20/20. If he thinks he can now, there must be a reason and that is why I say then he might be able to get through. I dont need a record of what Victoria said via you. It is right there for you to see.
and I am glad it is clear to you, enjoy your superiority of clarity, but I still call upon the author to clear it up for me, not you.

real easy to criticize, do you have anything to contribute as to a solution to his issue??? Not really, do you?

[jes2jes]

I will just tell the OP that, he can fly to Dublin for a few days and continue on a domestic flight to the UK and fly back to the US after the 'hold up' with his fiancé.

Buy a ticket: US - Ireland - London - US (with a brief stopover in Dublin for a day or two)

This is just a suggestion if you are desperate to see the dear lady down here or the lady can come to the US for the holidays.

You all should also note that, the OP had only $700 which is insufficient in terms of standard of living in the UK to be able maintain himself during his visit and this too raised questions to the ECO.

This is my two cents!

[SYH]

I will just tell the OP that, he can fly to Dublin for a few days and continue on a domestic flight to the UK and fly back to the US after the 'hold up' with his fiancé.

Buy a ticket: US - Ireland - London - US (with a brief stopover in Dublin for a day or two)

This is just a suggestion if you are desperate to see the dear lady down here or the lady can come to the US for the holidays.

You all should also note that, the OP had only $700 which is insufficient in terms of standard of living in the UK to be able not to raise questions to the ECO.

This is my two cents!

I find your comments insightful and helpful for the OP

[VictoriaS]

SYH, I am not trying to contradict you all the time, but I spoke to the OP's girlfriend last night and know a bit of what is happening here. I agree that he probably would have been able to get in without prior entry clearance, but what is done is done, and the simple fact is that if he now tries to enter the UK without getting that refusal overturned or making a new successful application then he runs the risk of getting bounced and potentially screwing up his immigration history.

Going visa Ireland, if found out, will be considered a deliberate attempt to evade immigration. If you do this, then any future application to come to the UK, either as a visitor or to settle, will be effected. It is simply not worth the risk.

Victoria

[SYH]

SYH, I am not trying to contradict you all the time, but I spoke to the OP's girlfriend last night and know a bit of what is happening here. I agree that he probably would have been able to get in without prior entry clearance, but what is done is done, and the simple fact is that if he now tries to enter the UK without getting that refusal overturned or making a new successful application then he runs the risk of getting bounced and potentially screwing up his immigration history.

Going visa Ireland, if found out, will be considered a deliberate attempt to evade immigration. If you do this, then any future application to come to the UK, either as a visitor or to settle, will be effected. It is simply not worth the risk.

Victoria

Ok victoria
Thanks for clearing that up
that does make sense if you have insider info
My comment was based on the info given by the OP which is sparse.

[NJOK]

thanks for all your replys. sorry if any of that was unclear. victoria, how do i apply for administrative review?

[NJOK]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

You missed my point Victoria
If he thinks he can just go staight there without apply for a formal visa
then he should have done that beforehand
I dont see why you are consistenly contrary to everything I have to say.
And maybe you should let him elaborate and how it makes sense, this is the problem, the author needs to be able to articulate for himself or how can he represent and defend himself properly.
probably that's how he got turned around and applied for a visa he didnt need in the first place.

SYH,

His explanation as to why he applied for a visa makes perfect sense to me too. Maybe you should read it again.

As for your statement that he will be able to get entry now unless he acts shifty, that is duff advice. I can guarantee him 101% that should he seek entry as a visitor or indeed any other category without a visa/Entry Clearance he will be refused and returned. Probably on the very aircraft he arrived on.

As Victoria said his option is to seek a JR or altenatively hope that his representations to the embassy are accepted and the decision reversed.

thanks, whats a JR? im clueless when i t comes to all this lingo, lol

[impactcrew]

No. really, now that you have a refusal on record you will almost certainly be bounced at the airport if you try to enter.

The story makes perfect sense - because of a conviction, the embassy advised that he applies for a visa, then refused the visa on other grounds.


Victoria

You missed my point Victoria
If he thinks he can just go staight there without apply for a formal visa
then he should have done that beforehand
I dont see why you are consistenly contrary to everything I have to say.
And maybe you should let him elaborate and how it makes sense, this is the problem, the author needs to be able to articulate for himself or how can he represent and defend himself properly.
probably that's how he got turned around and applied for a visa he didnt need in the first place.

SYH,

His explanation as to why he applied for a visa makes perfect sense to me too. Maybe you should read it again.

As for your statement that he will be able to get entry now unless he acts shifty, that is duff advice. I can guarantee him 101% that should he seek entry as a visitor or indeed any other category without a visa/Entry Clearance he will be refused and returned. Probably on the very aircraft he arrived on.

As Victoria said his option is to seek a JR or altenatively hope that his representations to the embassy are accepted and the decision reversed.

thanks, whats a JR? im clueless when i t comes to all this lingo, lol

Judicial review!

[NJOK]

how do i go about getting a judicial review? do i just write a letter or do i need to get some kind of form? thanks

[impactcrew]

Njok - on yr letter of refusal, did they say that you have the right to appeal, if so then write them a letter outlining yr arguments and send it to the address they have asked you to post the appeal to.

[NJOK]

Njok - on yr letter of refusal, did they say that you have the right to appeal, if so then write them a letter outlining yr arguments and send it to the address they have asked you to post the appeal to.

no, there was no right to appeal being that it was just a visitors visa. but some of the things she said in the refusal notice were incorrect and other things were completely over looked, like my girlfriends bank statements.

[impactcrew]

Njok - on yr letter of refusal, did they say that you have the right to appeal, if so then write them a letter outlining yr arguments and send it to the address they have asked you to post the appeal to.

no, there was no right to appeal being that it was just a visitors visa. but some of the things she said in the refusal notice were incorrect and other things were completely over looked, like my girlfriends bank statements.

i find that surprising as they normally give u a right to appeal - However you can try this address to see if they can send u the form or u may be able to download it from www.ait.gov.uk and there phone number is 0845 6000877 post address: Arnhem Support centre, P.O Box 6987, Leicester, LE1 6ZX. If possible can you type or scan the refusal notice so we can see on what grounds it was refused. On that form it gives you the option to state where u think the ECO were wrong and to challenge there decision.

[VictoriaS]

There is no right of appeal with a visit visa, unless it is to visit an immediate family member.

Victoria

[vinny]

Unfortunately, as Victoria said, since this is a non-family visitor application, the appeal rights are very limited. See also Contesting a visitors visa refusal - Tirana.

NJOK, do let us know their response to your letter when you receive it.

[NJOK]

wow, you've all been really helpful to me, thank you for that. heres the refusal notice:

you have never been to the UK before and now wish to visitfor three to four weeks to visit your fiance julie. you state that julie is a full time student and is paying for your trip to the UK.

You State that you are employed as an auto body painter earning approximately $2000 a month and you play in a band. You state you live with the other band members in rented accomodation paying approximately $400 a month in rent. In support of your application you have provided a letter from your employer which states that there is no guarantee that your job will be availablefor you on your return from the UK. You also stated that juliehad asked you to consider moving to the UK on a permanent basis at some time in the future. I am therefore not satisfied that you have sufficient commitments in the US to prompt your timely departure from the UK.

You have no assets and have yet to establish yourself in terms of property or family commitments. you state you have 6-$700 available to you to cover your visit. However, on the evidence available i am not satisfied that you will maintain and accomodate yourself without recourse to public funds or taking employment.

In view of the above i am not satisfied that you are genuinely seeking entry for the period and purpose as stated by you.

I therefore refuse your application.


1.well...it says i havent been to the UK which i have.

2.i have stated that julie is a full time student but i also stated that she is also working

3.it says that julie is paying for the trip, but i said that she is only paying for one way of the trip and i was paying the other.

4.the letter from my job did say they cant guarantee me being rehired upon my return, but italso said they would like to rehire me if they can. i have also stated that if they do not rehire me, i have another job lined up upon my return.

5.she stated that i only have 6-$700 available for the trip. i told her that that was how much i was bringing with me, and if need be julie could support me for the remainder of the trip need be. she provided her bank statements with my application in the amount of nearly 4000 pounds.

[VictoriaS]

Which is why, as I said to Julie, you need to write to them and ask for a review on the grounds that they got all this wrong. But you only have five days from the date of refusal to do it!!!


Victoria

[vinny]

I thought that NJOK had already written to them.

heres the letter i had just wrote back to the embassy which will better explain my situation

[NJOK]

yes, i have written a letter to the embassy...not sure if thats where i was supposed to send it, but now that i have been directed to a reconsideration application i will fill that out as well. should i provide further evidence with the application or should i provide it at their request?? dont wanna do anything else to incriminate myself, lol