Driving offence in AN form

[kalfahmy]

Hi All,

I have an appointment this Thursday at the NCS to apply for citizenship.

I have a driving offence in my records, it goes back to March this year when I drove opposite way in a one way street, it was late afternoon on a Sunday and the street was empty from cars and people so caused no harm to anyone and didn't notice the one-way sign. Police stopped me and charged me with "driving without due care", went to court in June this year and got the minimum penalty points for the charge (3 points) and £180 fine.

Now, what are my options to get a successful application:
1. Apply now and attach a cover letter explaining the situation and the fact that I never charged before from court and such minor offence should not affect being a good charcter.

2. Wait 12 month and apply with a covering letter, based on the paragraph on page 17 in the AN booklet: "We may disregard a single non-custodial sentence, providing it did not occur in the final
12 months of the applicant’s residential qualifying period, if there are strong countervailing
factors which suggest the person is of good character in all other regards and the
decision to refuse would be disproportionate."

3. Wait for 3 years.


As you may guess, I want to get the citizenship asap, so any advice on how option 1 might work will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a lot,
Kal

[Wanderer]

The fact the street was empty does make it minor, £180 fine is pretty steep, 3 points pretty lenient, and the fact it went to court means it wasn't minor.

You'll need to wait three years from date of conviction I think from memory.

[leavetoremain]

Never heard of driving on an one-way street going to court. Normally these type of offenses are dealt by the council in the form of PCN and not FPN but as you were caught by police, it is up to them to issue FPN. In your case, did they send the NIP to your registered address and did you name the driver? Asking because failure to identify the driver means MS90 and SJPN (Single Justice Procedure Notice) which is a more serious offence that requires offender to appear in court.

[kalfahmy]

Never heard of driving on an one-way street going to court. Normally these type of offenses are dealt by the council in the form of PCN and not FPN but as you were caught by police, it is up to them to issue FPN. In your case, did they send the NIP to your registered address and did you name the driver? Asking because failure to identify the driver means MS90 and SJPN (Single Justice Procedure Notice) which is a more serious offence that requires offender to appear in court.

I got the SJPN but hired a solicitor who plead guilty and got me 3 points (min penalty) and the fine. He went to court and it was all done from first hearing.

[leavetoremain]

Exactly what I.wanted to know as missed this vital piece of information in.your.OP.

This could.be a tough one as SJPN means you failed to identity the driver which HO might consider as a negative in good character requirements.

Search the forum for posts with SJPN or.MS90 for better answers to.your questions.

Good luck with your application.

[noajthan]

Court conviction is not small potatoes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... _D_v02.pdf

[kalfahmy]

Thank you all.

I can sense from your comments that it will be waste of money. Do you know anyone who was in a similar situation and had a successful application ? I am still hoping there's a way because I can't see why this mistake makes me a not-good character.

[leavetoremain]

Because you failed to identify the driver (deliberately) and probably didn't sign and post the S172 form which landed you in court via SJPN.

Maybe you application could have been approved if the matter didn't go to court and you had no other offenses committed during the last couple of years. I think the endorsement will vanish from your license records after 4 years and not three.

[noajthan]

Thank you all.

I can sense from your comments that it will be waste of money. Do you know anyone who was in a similar situation and had a successful application ? I am still hoping there's a way because I can't see why this mistake makes me a not-good character.

Good character is assessed on the balance of probabilities.
Caseworker's discretion is discretionary.
But as you can see from the guidance linked above its not determined on the flip of a coin.
So any outcome for someone else cannot be used to guide your case (whether they succeeded or were refused).

[kalfahmy]

Thank you.

As my offence has the code "CD10" which is careless driving and by law it subject to ONLY penalty points from 3 to 9 (I got the minimum which is 3 points) and not to imprisonment, it should not be in my criminal record.

Should I declare it as a criminal convection or write a cover letter and mention it there ?

Regards,
Kal

[leavetoremain]

Thank you.

As my offence has the code "CD10" which is careless driving and by law it subject to ONLY penalty points from 3 to 9 (I got the minimum which is 3 points) and not to imprisonment, it should not be in my criminal record.

Should I declare it as a criminal convection or write a cover letter and mention it there ?

Regards,
Kal

1. Did you receive any NIP by post asking to identify the driver?
2. If yes, did you identify yourself as the driver and return the form?
3. If yes to the above, how the matter went to court considering that it was a CD10?

Simple matter like this doesn't go to court without a strong reason, so something doesn't add up here. Am I right to say that your case went to court because of deliberately not identifying the driver (MS90) and returning the form back which is required by law?

If I was right then in my opinion case worker can refuse based on the grounds that you broke the law and was taken to court to prove your guilt.

[Wanderer]

Don't forget to inform your insurer too, as you are leglly bound to, MS90 for sure will mean 4 or 5 fold increase in premiums.

[kalfahmy]

Thanks for the replies.

There's no MS90 or anything about identifying the driver or S172 form. What happened in sequence is as following:

1. I was stopped by a police car while driving the wrong way in a one way road (didn't notice of course).
2. No cars or people harmed as it was late afternoon on a Sunday so no on was in the quite street.
3. The police office charged me with carless driving and I received Single Justice notice.
4. I plead guilty and went to court.
5. I hired a solicitor and from the first hearing, the court gave me 3 points and £180 fine.

I have no other offences in my whole life. Can't see why this minor mistake would do any harm!

[leavetoremain]

Thanks for the replies.

There's no MS90 or anything about identifying the driver or S172 form. What happened in sequence is as following:

1. I was stopped by a police car while driving the wrong way in a one way road (didn't notice of course).
2. No cars or people harmed as it was late afternoon on a Sunday so no on was in the quite street.
3. The police office charged me with carless driving and I received Single Justice notice.
4. I plead guilty and went to court.
5. I hired a solicitor and from the first hearing, the court gave me 3 points and £180 fine.

I have no other offences in my whole life. Can't see why this minor mistake would do any harm!

Thanks for the clarification. Personally I think this shouldn't be a problem if you already spent 3 years but you must mention this in your application and if possible attach a covering letter. Surprised that the police officer issued SJPN for a minor offense. The officer must have been in a really bad mood.

I still think the points will appear on your driving record until 4 years https://www.gov.uk/view-driving-licence