BOC and the Malaysian passport - please advise!

[Cynister]

Hello

I'm interested in obtaining the British Overseas Citizen passport(BOC):

My father was born in Penang in 1948
I was born in Penang in 1980
My parents are legally married
Currently in London on the working holiday visa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My queries about obtaining the BOC are(excuse me if I seem ignorant, but I'm really confused having read too many forums and write-ups, so any advice will be much appreciated):

1)Am I eligible for the BOC
1) Would I need to give up my Malaysian passport if I do apply for the BOC?
2) What are the benefits of obtaining a BOC, ie would I be able to work in the UK indefinitely, does it provide me with ILR?
3) I read somewhere that having a BOC would only affect me holding a Malaysian passport only if I do apply for the british passport after 5 years, is that true?
4) Does holding a BOC equates to having a 'pr' in the uk?
5)Any idea how much it costs, and how long it takes usually?

Please, any advice would be much appreciated! My visa runs out soon...so I need a solution and also to make a decision asap!

Many thanks in advance!

Cynister

[JAJ]

1. Based on the facts you are a BOC.

2. Prior to 2005 it would have caused problems for your Malaysian citizenship if you obtained a BOC passport. Now it's more of a grey area.

3. Before you can think of British citizenship (after 5 years) you need to have Indefinite Leave to Remain in the U.K. - if you're just on a working visa that's not going to happen soon.

4. Absolutely not. BOCs do not have right of abode in the U.K.

5. http://www.passports.gov.uk

[Cynister]

Hi JAJ

Thanks for the reply! If I were to apply for my BOC now while still on my working holiday visa(it expires in June 08 ) will I be able to remain in the UK after June, and also continue working without a work permit once I receive my BOC?

Thanks!

[JAJ]

Hi JAJ

Thanks for the reply! If I were to apply for my BOC now while still on my working holiday visa(it expires in June 08 ) will I be able to remain in the UK after June, and also continue working without a work permit once I receive my BOC?

Thanks!

NO!!

[Cynister]

Hmmm.....so at this point, for me to obtain a BOC is futile and a waste of time if I want to continue working...

So what are the benefits of having the BOC at all? None at the moment that I can see

[Wanderer]

Hmmm.....so at this point, for me to obtain a BOC is futile and a waste of time if I want to continue working... :cry:

So what are the benefits of having the BOC at all? None at the moment that I can see :(

I think there are benefits for stateless people but not those who have made themselves stateless.

[sakura]

Hmmm.....so at this point, for me to obtain a BOC is futile and a waste of time if I want to continue working...

So what are the benefits of having the BOC at all? None at the moment that I can see

If it were that easy to obtain BOC to remain in the UK, don't you think most Malaysian (and other) citizens would have done that by now?

[JAJ]

If it were that easy to obtain BOC to remain in the UK, don't you think most Malaysian (and other) citizens would have done that by now?

"Only" about 1 million Malaysians are BOCs, not the whole population.

[sakura]

If it were that easy to obtain BOC to remain in the UK, don't you think most Malaysian (and other) citizens would have done that by now?

"Only" about 1 million Malaysians are BOCs, not the whole population.

...Many of whom would probably exercise their right to live/work in the UK if they had that option open to them! The OP is not alone...

[penanglad]

Not that I'd recommend it, but the truly desperate BOC with no intention to travel could renounce their Malaysian citizenship. In those circumstances, the UK government would be unable to deport him as he had no right of abode in Malaysia. However, he would be unable to regularise his status, as the UK authorities would not grant exceptional leave to remain to someone who played the system so cynically.

[penanglad]

Actually, the situation is as below. This was previously not available on the IND website until a few of us asked for it through the FoIA:

IDI Nov/04 CH22 SECT2 – UNITED KINGDOM PASSPORTS

Granting discretionary leave

Discretionary leave for a period of 6 years (3 years followed by 3 years) may be granted to British Overseas citizens and other UKPHs only if one of the following factors are present:-

• There is clear evidence of compassionate circumstances. This should be
assessed according to the individual merits of the case but discretion would normally only be granted in wholly exceptional circumstances. Cases should not be agreed below Senior Caseworker level.

or

• There is clear evidence of the persons non-returnability. This should take the form of a letter from the appropriate authorities of the country of normal residence confirming the person's non-returnability, e.g. a refusal to issue a re-entry visa. The applicant should also be asked for a copy of his/her application to those authorities if available. Cases should not be agreed below Senior Caseworker level.

Subsequent grants, of exceptional leave, including the grant of ILR, may be approved at EO level if the circumstances remain the same. In all cases the onus is on the applicant to provide the necessary evidence. Prolonged enquiries are to be avoided. All relevant questions should be asked in a single letter of enquiry. Failure to reply to such a letter within 4 weeks should trigger the usual reminder followed by a refusal if there is still no reply after a further 28 days.

A person who refuses to apply for a re-entry visa to the country in which he is normally resident should not be given discretionary leave. The expectation must be that UKPHs will apply for the equivalent of returning resident or settlement visas and those who manage to obtain these should not be granted discretionary leave.

There will be cases where a visit visa is issued to enable a compassionate or other visit to take place. In these circumstances it would be wrong to withhold discretionary leave, providing they are able to produce evidence as set out above to satisfactorily demonstrate that they are not returnable to their country of origin for the purpose of settlement. This applies equally to first time applicants and those who have already had XLTR for a number of years, and have since been issued with a visit visa. Where a person has held XLTR for a number of years the evidence of the refused settlement visa should be recent. All cases where a visit visa has been issued should be referred to at least Senior Caseworker level.

ILR may be granted after 6 years have been spent in this category assuming the circumstances remain the same. The initial grant of discretionary leave should be for 3 years, followed by a further 3 years and, after 6 years, ILR.

[sakura]

Not that I'd recommend it, but the truly desperate BOC with no intention to travel could renounce their Malaysian citizenship. In those circumstances, the UK government would be unable to deport him as he had no right of abode in Malaysia. However, he would be unable to regularise his status, as the UK authorities would not grant exceptional leave to remain to someone who played the system so cynically.

Would Malaysia accept an application for renunciation without proof of another citizenship?

Would a country allow a citizen to become stateless?? I'd like to know, since BOC isn't citizenship?

[JAJ]

Would Malaysia accept an application for renunciation without proof of another citizenship?

Would a country allow a citizen to become stateless?? I'd like to know, since BOC isn't citizenship?

Renunciation of Malaysian citizenship after 4 July 2002 would not create an entitlement to British citizenship under s4B of the Act.

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... iew=Binary

2.11 Applicants of Malaysian origin

2.11.1 The Constitution of the Federation of Malaysia provides that Malaysian citizens may by order be deprived of citizenship if:
• they have acquired citizenship of any country outside the Federation either by registration, naturalisation or other voluntary and formal act (Clause 24(1)); or
• they have voluntarily claimed and exercised, in a foreign country, any rights available to them under that country’s laws where those rights are accorded exclusively to that country’s citizens (Clause 24(2))

2.11.2 Under Clause 24(3A) of the Constitution, a person is deemed to have claimed and exercised a right mentioned in Clause 24(2) if, after 10 October 1963, he or she either:
a. applies to the authorities of a place outside the Federation for the issue or renewal of a passport; or
b. uses a passport issued by the authorities of a place outside the Federation as a travel document

2.11.3 It had been our previous understanding, and the Malaysian government’s position, that acquisition of a BOC passport by a Malaysian citizen was sufficient justification for the deprivation of Malaysian citizenship.

2.11.4 However on 21 February 2005 in the case of Lee Thean Hock, Judicial Review number 25-64-2004 the Penang (Malaysia) High Court took a different view. The Court drew a distinction between the acquisition of a British citizen passport, which could justify deprivation under Article 24(2) of the Constitution, and the acquisition of a BOC passport, which could not.

2.11.5 For the purposes of s.4B(2)(b) BNA 1981, it can no longer be assumed that the holder of a BOC passport has lost any claim s/he might otherwise have had to Malaysian citizenship. We require to see evidence from the Malaysian authorities, dated post 21 February 2005 to take into account the court ruling, that the applicant does not hold Malaysian citizenship and has not, after 4 July 2002, given up or done anything to prompt the deprivation of that citizenship.

[penanglad]

Not that I'd recommend it, but the truly desperate BOC with no intention to travel could renounce their Malaysian citizenship. In those circumstances, the UK government would be unable to deport him as he had no right of abode in Malaysia. However, he would be unable to regularise his status, as the UK authorities would not grant exceptional leave to remain to someone who played the system so cynically.

Would Malaysia accept an application for renunciation without proof of another citizenship?

Would a country allow a citizen to become stateless?? I'd like to know, since BOC isn't citizenship?

A British Overseas Citizen is a national of the UK, so the person is not stateless and the question does not arise. The Lee Thean Hock decision, which treats BOC status as not amounting to citizenship of a country outside the Federation, seems to have been made in complete ignorance of UK nationality law.

[JAJ]

A British Overseas Citizen is a national of the UK, so the person is not stateless and the question does not arise. The Lee Thean Hock decision, which treats BOC status as not amounting to citizenship of a country outside the Federation, seems to have been made in complete ignorance of UK nationality law.

BOC is a form of British nationality but it is not a citizenship (by any reasonable definition of the term).

[penanglad]

A British Overseas Citizen is a national of the UK, so the person is not stateless and the question does not arise. The Lee Thean Hock decision, which treats BOC status as not amounting to citizenship of a country outside the Federation, seems to have been made in complete ignorance of UK nationality law.

BOC is a form of British nationality but it is not a citizenship (by any reasonable definition of the term).

The C in BOC gives it away somewhat, though I sympathise with your sentiments.

[JAJ]

BOC is a form of British nationality but it is not a citizenship (by any reasonable definition of the term) ...

The C in BOC gives it away somewhat, though I sympathise with your sentiments.

I think the reason for that is that prior to 1983, BOCs were Citizens of the UK & Colonies.

But what it is called is irrelevant - it's not a real citizenship. Just like Overseas Citizenship of India is not a real citizenship, despite its title.

[jamespenang76]

We can apply BOC passport in Malaysia and not only in UK

[ribena]

Hi guys,
just remembered i got this email from BHC in msia on BOC query. just wanted to share and fyi for others.

Quote:

With reference to your query with regards to a possible claim to a BOC, kindly be advised that there have been a number of inaccurate reports in the Malaysian press regarding the status of BOC passport holders.

It should be noted that there is no tangible advantage of holding a BOC passport over a Malaysian passport. Holders of BOC passports are still subject to UK Immigration Control, and are still only allowed to enter the UK for a maximum of 6 months on each entry. BOC passport holders do not have PR or the Right Of Abode in the UK. BOC passport holders are not permitted to work in the UK (or any other European Union country).

On arrival in the UK, BOC passport holders will be subject to the same rules of Immigration as a Malaysian Passport holder. BOC passport holders may still be refused entry to the UK. If a BOC passport holder wishes to stay longer than 6 months in the UK, they must apply for the appropriate visa BEFORE they travel to the UK.

If entitled, you will be issued with a BOC passport. This is not a full British (EU) passport, but what is called a Look-alike Passport, which is easily distinguished from a full British Citizens passport. This will help the Immigration Officer identify you on arrival in the UK, or any other country. You will need to check the immigration regulations for other country's entry requirements.

Since you were born in Penang before 01 January 1983 you may be entitled to British Overseas Citizenship.

If you wish to apply for BOC passport, please submit the following original documents:-
(1) Your original birth certificate;
(2) Your father's original birth certificate
(3) Your parent's marriage certificate
(4) Your current Malaysian Passport;
(5) Your Malaysian Identity Card
(6) C1 Passport Application Form (A copy of the form is hereby attached);
(7) 2 passport photographs (kindly refer to the guidelines on passport photographs); and
(8) Passport fee of RM656



Once you have provided the above-mentioned documents, we will refer your application to the Nationality Department in the UK to obtain a ruling. This may take a number of weeks.

Unquote:
I guess if that anyone applies this BOC passport, a trigger might be sent to NRD to renounce ur malaysian citizenship.

[ben_scaro]

Hi guys,
just remembered i got this email from BHC in msia on BOC query. just wanted to share and fyi for others.

Unquote:
I guess if that anyone applies this BOC passport, a trigger might be sent to NRD to renounce ur malaysian citizenship.

Thanks for the information.

As for a trigger? After the Lee Thean Hock decision I'd say definitely not.

In the cases I am aware of, people have found it hard to get Malaysia to accept renunciation even when they have actually gone in person to the Malaysian HC with their MyKad and Malaysian passport and handed them back in person.

It takes a year to get a letter out of Malaysia even if you do that. Seriously, that's how hard it is.

And they don't always send a letter. In which case you are totally stuffed.

Ben