Staying with EU spouse after tourist visa expires?

[clareR]

I am a British Citizen and planning to travel to Spain soon. I work as a freelancer and want to live and work in Spain. My husband is an Indian citizen and we plan to apply for a schengen tourist visa for him to travel with me to Spain. I want to exercise my EU/EEA treaty rights freedom of movement in Spain under Directive 2004/38/EC of the European Parliament.

The thing is, once we get to the EU, how can I exercise my right to be with my spouse in Spain once his 90 day tourist visa expires? Does he have to keep returning to India to get new tourist visas, or is there some way that once we are there, he can simply apply for some kind of permit to stay with me, whilst i work there.

[secret.simon]

Once your husband is with you in Spain, contact the local Immigration Office to apply for a Residence Card under EU law. That should be valid for 5 years.

If you exercise treaty rights in Spain for five years, your husband would automatically acquire permanent residency in Spain at the end of that period.

[noajthan]

PR may not be able to be acquired in normal way anymore as it takes 5 years and UK is unlikely to be in EU in 5 years time.

Get up to speed on free movement here:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/doc ... 013_en.pdf

[secret.simon]

Perhaps the EU could learn some UK law and introduce the concept of legitimate expectations and of transitional arrangements into EU law.

[noajthan]

Perhaps the EU could learn some UK law and introduce the concept of legitimate expectations and of transitional arrangements into EU law.

Well the traditional British sense of fair play may yet come to the fore and save the day as its more about Brexit negotiations than underlying EU law.

[clareR]

Perhaps the EU could learn some UK law and introduce the concept of legitimate expectations and of transitional arrangements into EU law.

Well the traditional British sense of fair play may yet come to the fore and save the day as its more about Brexit negotiations than underlying EU law.

hmm, not sure that learning about "fair play" from the British will improve things much these days...going by my recent experiences of our immigration processes for my husband. I have seen no fairness so far, will wait and see in april at our appeal court hearing as to whether the british sense of fair play is real or just something from the history books.

[clareR]

I have gathered all the required documents and filled in the application forms, to apply for a schengen entry visa for my India husband to accompany me to Spain. I am british.

But I am not sure where to take the application. I have read online that they must be submitted to the embassy in Delhi and that according to EU directive 2004/38/EC the process is somewhat different.
However spanish visa applications are outsourced, to a company similar to VFS and when i called them they said my husband had to do same as everyone else and apply in the normal way for a tourist visa.

Am I right that they are wrong and if so do I just go to the embassy in delhi armed with legal quotes and our application documents, or will they just send me on my way.

I actually dont care which eu country we go to for a break from India (where i have been living with him for over a year since his uk spouse visa was refused). I am thinking Greece, Spain, France...I dont care. Just somewhere where I can get a beef burger and a hot bath.

If anyone knows where I need to submit the schenghen visa app as an eu citizen for my indian spouse, i would be grateful for some advice.

[CR001]

Kindly refrain from posting things about a country and its citizens that others might find offensive. I have edited your post.

[clareR]

Kindly refrain from posting things about a country and its citizens that others might find offensive. I have edited your post.

I am thinking that you possibly misread what I wrote as I can not see how it could be could be considered offensive to anyone.

It is a fact that I get stared at everywhere I go here, I do not fit in, I have blonde hair and stand out like a sore thumb. Why stating that could be considered offensive I dont know.

[CR001]

Kindly refrain from posting things about a country and its citizens that others might find offensive. I have edited your post.

I am thinking that you possibly misread what I wrote as I can not see how it could be could be considered offensive to anyone.

It is a fact that I get stared at everywhere I go here, I do not fit in, I have blonde hair and stand out like a sore thumb. Why stating that could be considered offensive I dont know.

It was the way you stated it. We have many members, already highly strung with stress and huge costs of the UK immigration process, such statements might be offensive to others.

Suggest read the forum T&Cs, as you were required to do on registering on the forum.

Good luck!

[clareR]

Thanks, got it... i am no stranger to being highly strung from the stress and cost of dealing with immigration laws. I just wish a spaceship would pick me up and take me home (with my hubbie)

Anyway, as going home and being able to introduce my husband of a year and a half to my family in the uk is a just a distant dream. The next best thing right now is to go somewhere that maybe more welcoming to us both in europe. My elderly parents may even be able to make it that far to meet up with us and finally meet their son in law. I have lost my home and job in order to be able to live with my husband and have been dealing with all this for nearly two years now. I need a break, and want to get out of india. Not because indian people are not lovely...they are...obviously i dont have a problem with indian people...i married one...but it can be tough here, the climate, the living conditions, its not easy, I am sure even most resident indians would admit that.

Anyone with any info about where to apply for a schengen visa for my husband, please let me know.

[noajthan]

Anyone with any info about where to apply for a schengen visa for my husband, please let me know.

VFS Global no longer accepts Spain visa applications on behalf of the Embassy of Spain, with effect from 17 December 2016.

See
http://www.vfsglobal.com/spain/

[clareR]

Anyone with any info about where to apply for a schengen visa for my husband, please let me know.

VFS Global no longer accepts Spain visa applications on behalf of the Embassy of Spain, with effect from 17 December 2016.

See
http://www.vfsglobal.com/spain/

Thanks, yes I have seen that and been to the website of the company who deals with their visa applications. I even called them earlier today, but apparently Spain do not abide by EU law and refuse t acknoweldge my freedom of movement rights.

According to EU law the spouse of an eu citizen is allowed to accompany the eu citizen, without paying a visa fee and only has to produce passport and marriage certificate. But Spain ignore that law. So I am trying to find a country that abides by EU Law, specifically directive 2004/38/EC I quote from article 5.1 and 5.2 (Right of entry)

1.) Without prejudice to the provision on travel documents applicable to national border control member states shall grant union citizens leave to enter their territory with a valid identity card or passport and shall grant family members who are not nationals of a member state leave to enter their territory with a valid passport. No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on union citizens.
2.) Family members who are not nationals of a member state shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with regulation (EC) No. 539/2001 or where appropriate with national law. For purposes of this directive, possession of the valid residence card referred to in article 10 shall exempt such family members from visa requirement.
Member states shall grant such persons every facility to obtain the necessary visa such visas shall be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

[noajthan]

Thanks, yes I have seen that and been to the website of the company who deals with their visa applications. I even called them earlier today, but apparently Spain do not abide by EU law and refuse t acknoweldge my freedom of movement rights.

According to EU law the spouse of an eu citizen is allowed to accompany the eu citizen, without paying a visa fee and only has to produce passport and marriage certificate.
...

Yes, there's the MRAX case law but from as far away as India you are on a sticky wicket.
Try insisting on free movement rights and getting hubby on a plane without a visa.

Time is already ticking for BCs and HO have only recently tightened the rules for Surinder Singh.
Even if you get into Spain (and stay for 9 months or perhaps a year), and then get back to Blighty, you will only have a year or so before UK is out of EU; so no way for hubby to acquire PR in UK in the normal way.
Hence back to reliance on British fair play and any transitional arrangements that are brought in.

Faced with all that you will only grind yourself down to the bone if you start by fighting with EU memberstates.
(And don't lets get onto subject of Spain and marriage certificates).

There is probably no quick and easy solution. If one country fails you then try a.n.other member state.
Good luck.

[secret.simon]

Try insisting on free movement rights and getting hubby on a plane without a visa.

Never mind getting as far as the plane. Your husband will not be allowed past the Indian Bureau of Immigration desks at the airport without a visa for another country.

Just somewhere where I can get a beef burger and a hot bath.

I would be cautious about vocalising desire for the former in a place like India. At least one person was lynched to death on mere suspicion of having eaten beef. As for the latter, when I visit the topics, I look forward to a cold bath, to cool me down. But hey, different people, different strokes.

I do not fit in, I have blonde hair and stand out like a sore thumb.

Same thing happened when my mother visited Turkey to meet me when I was there. The solution is dress like a film star. Wear a scarf around your head, some classy sunglasses and cover up from tip to toe (closed collar, long sleeves, long pantaloons, you get the idea). And then look oh so unapproachable, like minor royalty or a Hollywood diva. It worked a treat with my mom.

There is always the alternate of wearing a burqa. While it has bad press in the West, the anonymity that it provides sounds like just the thing for you.

Anyone with any info about where to apply for a schengen visa for my husband, please let me know.

Have you looked at some of the more recherché options, such as Malta, Cyprus or one of the Scandinavian countries? Or of course our dear cousins, the Irish? I checked and they all have High Commissions/Embassies in New Delhi

If you have already filed paperwork with the Spanish authorities, you can also involve SOLVIT.

[clareR]

Thank you for these replies, and the understanding of my situation. secret.simon is right that people can be lynched over dietary differences. I tend to like to not rock the boat, so i go with the flow and eat dal and rice here most of the time...if we want some eggs we have to hide them from our landlords, as even eggs are considered a sin to eat in the small town we are in...beef is simply not available, nor would i dream of mentioning it to anyone here. Yes I would be lynched. Quite a few things you can get lynched for around these parts...thats why I dont go out much and when I do it is only with my husband. These are all things I am going to point out in my appeal case, and in the subsequent human rights case if the appeal fails. Maybe I will become an asylum seeker at some point

Thanks for the suggestions of other countries, we have not submitted our docs anywhere yet. We are weighing up our chances carefully for different countries, as another visa refusal for my husband and there will be no pages left in his visa for an entry clearance stamp if he does happen to get his spouse visa eventually.

I think it is clear to me now that we have to submit our docs via the usual route, VFS (or whatever other outsource a country does to handle visa affairs) and submit a cover letter with the details of our application and the eu law we are clinging to.

I have been told that Ireland currently has a waiting time of over a year for tourist visas, because of the SS route stuff. Actually we are not thinking about SS route as we have been advised that the route is pretty much closed. That from now on one of the criteria to be met is that you have not made the other eu country center of life as a means to get into the UK. If there have been past uk visa rejections, this will be reason to refuse the family permit. So we are not even considering that, or the UK, we are actually genuinely seeking to start a new life in another EU country.

This morning my thoughts have turned to France, I worked there as an au pair, speak a bit of french and have heard it is easier to get a visa. It is also close enough to UK that possibly my elderly parents could come and meet my husband.

If anyone knows whether France attitude to allowing entry of non eu spouses or not, let me know...of course i wouldnt be allowed to wear a burka there secret.simon, so buying one may be an unwise investment at this time I will go with the dark glasses and aloof route for now

[secret.simon]

These are all things I am going to point out in my appeal case, and in the subsequent human rights case if the appeal fails. Maybe I will become an asylum seeker at some point

A human right appeal on these grounds is unlikely to succeed. The Home office would suggest that you relocate to another part of India, which is almost as large than the whole of the EU. Ideally, a large city with expat communities, such as Mumbai or Chennai. Southern India is more hospitable towards women, though the temperatures are through the roof. Try the hill-stations there to keep cool.

another visa refusal for my husband and there will be no pages left in his visa for an entry clearance stamp if he does happen to get his spouse visa eventually.

I presume you mean that there will be no pages left in his passport. If there are no visa applications in progress, I suggest applying for a Tatkal passport while you are still in his hometown. That may speed things up.

I think it is clear to me now that we have to submit our docs via the usual route, VFS (or whatever other outsource a country does to handle visa affairs) and submit a cover letter with the details of our application and the eu law we are clinging to.

To the best of my knowledge, EU law only exempts you from any embassy/consulate charges/fees. You will however have to pay the VFS fees. Search on these forums for people applying from Pakistan, who have to go through Gerry's. Typically the staff of these outsourced companies have no idea of EU law and would process the application as a routine non-EEA application. It is only when it gets to the embassy/consulate that they can reverse the charges.

I am inclined more towards Malta and Cyprus. Both are Commonwealth countries, meaning that they have an English speaking background. Both have warm climes, better suited for somebody from the Indian subcontinent. Both are more likely to be missed by visitors from the Indian subcontinent and have would likely process you application faster.

The Maltese High Commission allows you to book an appointment with them directly for visa services. The Cypriot High Commission also allows direct submission of applications. I am sure that if you explain to them that you are relying on EU law and not a normal visitor, they may be able to expedite your application.

Be sure to get hubby's passport renewed before any visa applications.

of course i wouldnt be allowed to wear a burka there secret.simon, so buying one may be an unwise investment at this time I will go with the dark glasses and aloof route for now

The burka was recommended for anonymity in India, where (depending on where you are) they are fairly ubiquitous. France is a different kettle of fish altogether.

Disclaimer: Most information above is off the Web and is not of personal experience. Your mileage may vary from the advertisement

[clareR]

Thanks secret.simon the info is much appreciated