Sposual visa - Greek citizen marrying Aust citizen (for UK)

[AustGreek]

Hi all, new to the forum and would like to gain some knowledge re: a Greek citizen (currently working in the UK) marrying an Australian citizen (tourist visa at the moment) in the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this matter? What's the best way of doing it so we are both able to stay in the UK and obtain employment in the Uk or other EU countries (Spousal visa).

Any information, past experiences, web link to this matter will be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

[thirdwave]

Hi all, new to the forum and would like to gain some knowledge re: a Greek citizen (currently working in the UK) marrying an Australian citizen (tourist visa at the moment) in the UK.

Can anyone shed any light on this matter? What's the best way of doing it so we are both able to stay in the UK and obtain employment in the Uk or other EU countries (Spousal visa).

Any information, past experiences, web link to this matter will be greatly appreciated.

thanks.

I`m afraid you'd require a Certificate of Approval (CoA) in order to get married in the UK. Alternatively, you could get married in Greece/Australia and apply for a spouse visa or apply for a visit for marriage or fiancee visa in order to get married in the UK.

More info on the CoA and marriage visas..

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/visiti ... documents/

[VictoriaS]

And even if you marry in the UK, there is no guarantee that the Aus national can stay..in fact, he will be much better off returning home and reapplying.

Victoria

[Decus et Tutamen]

You can obtain a certificate of approval, marry and then make a free application to the BIA for a residence permit as the family member of an EEA national.

You would have to demonstrate that your spouse is Greek, that you are married and that s/he is considered to be a "qualified person", in this case, working.

That's it and no needless trips back to Australia to apply for visas.

[VictoriaS]

Do we know for a fact that switches are being approved from visit to spouse of EEA?

Victoria

[thirdwave]

You can obtain a certificate of approval, marry and then make a free application to the BIA for a residence permit as the family member of an EEA national.

You would have to demonstrate that your spouse is Greek, that you are married and that s/he is considered to be a "qualified person", in this case, working.

That's it and no needless trips back to Australia to apply for visas.

I do not think they issue CoAs to individuals on tourist visas..

[Decus et Tutamen]

I don't see how they can't approve unless they can otherwise demonstrate it is either a marriage of convenience or public health/security concerns kick in.

As such an application would be governed by Directive 2004/38 and the 2006 UK Regulations, rather than the Immigration Rules, the no switching rule for visitors would not apply.

From Regulation 17 of the 2006 Regs:-

17. —(1) The Secretary of State must issue a residence card to a person who is not an EEA national and is the family member of a qualified person ... on application and production of—

(a) a valid passport; and

(b) proof that the applicant is such a family member.

[VictoriaS]

They do issue COA's to people on tourist visas.

I know the theory of the law, but I want to know if we KNOW that they do.

Victoria

[Decus et Tutamen]

I do not think they issue CoAs to individuals on tourist visas..

It all changed about eight months ago when they were given a clogging by the judiciary.

Now anyone, even those unlawfully in the UK, may be issued with a CoA.

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... idance.pdf

[thirdwave]

I do not think they issue CoAs to individuals on tourist visas..

It all changed about eight months ago when they were given a clogging by the judiciary.

Now anyone, even those unlawfully in the UK, may be issued with a CoA.
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... idance.pdf

Its doable in theory but I'd like to know how many people with limited/no leave to remain have actually been issued CoAs since the judgment..IMO, the draconian rules are deliberately meant to stop people on short visas fom obtaining CoAs..

It would be much easier(and quicker) for the OP to apply for a fiancee visa or to get married elsewhere and travel back to the UK on a spouse visa..

[thirdwave]

They do issue COA's to people on tourist visas.

I know the theory of the law, but I want to know if we KNOW that they do.
Victoria

[VictoriaS]

Sorry, to clarify.

1) COA - I have first hand experience of these being issued to those on visit visas, and even overstayers, so I can say without doubt this is possible.

2) Switch from visit to EEA dependent. While I know the law allows for this, I have no first hand experience or even anecdotal evidence of such switches being allowed. Sometimes the Home Office break the law, and I want to know if anyone knows what stance they currently take on this applications.

Victoria

[Mr Rusty]

Sorry, to clarify.

1) COA - I have first hand experience of these being issued to those on visit visas, and even overstayers, so I can say without doubt this is possible.

2) Switch from visit to EEA dependent. While I know the law allows for this, I have no first hand experience or even anecdotal evidence of such switches being allowed. Sometimes the Home Office break the law, and I want to know if anyone knows what stance they currently take on this applications.

Victoria

If the OP makes a successful application and lets us know, we'll find out, won't we? They have absolutely nothing to lose by doing so, because there's no fee for such applications, and even if it is refused just because of the no-switching technicality all they've got to do is apply in the spouse's own country, and there should then be no reason to refuse it. As Decus et Tutamen said, no need to waste money going back to Australia.

[AustGreek]

thanks guys for your valuable posts.

I don't see how they can't approve unless they can otherwise demonstrate it is either a marriage of convenience or public health/security concerns kick in.

As such an application would be governed by Directive 2004/38 and the 2006 UK Regulations, rather than the Immigration Rules, the no switching rule for visitors would not apply.

From Regulation 17 of the 2006 Regs:-

17. —(1) The Secretary of State must issue a residence card to a person who is not an EEA national and is the family member of a qualified person ... on application and production of—

(a) a valid passport; and

(b) proof that the applicant is such a family member.

can someone please confirm this -

from the above post, my "new" understanding of the Reg 17 of the 2006 Regs is that:
if we are able to get married in other european countries (ie. a short trip from the UK), then the non-EEA national member will be able to return to the UK (at the same time with the EEA national & the marriage certificate) and then apply for a residency card in the UK? therefore no trip back to Australia & entry clearance required?!?

is this "that" simple?

EDIT:

we will get the COA underway asap..... can anyone please provide any tips to avoid rejections (ie. required documents and supporting documents)?
thanks.

[Mr Rusty]

thanks guys for your valuable posts.

I don't see how they can't approve unless they can otherwise demonstrate it is either a marriage of convenience or public health/security concerns kick in.

As such an application would be governed by Directive 2004/38 and the 2006 UK Regulations, rather than the Immigration Rules, the no switching rule for visitors would not apply.

From Regulation 17 of the 2006 Regs:-

17. —(1) The Secretary of State must issue a residence card to a person who is not an EEA national and is the family member of a qualified person ... on application and production of—

(a) a valid passport; and

(b) proof that the applicant is such a family member.

can someone please confirm this -

from the above post, my "new" understanding of the Reg 17 of the 2006 Regs is that:
if we are able to get married in other european countries (ie. a short trip from the UK), then the non-EEA national member will be able to return to the UK (at the same time with the EEA national & the marriage certificate) and then apply for a residency card in the UK? therefore no trip back to Australia & entry clearance required?!?

is this "that" simple?

EDIT:

we will get the COA underway asap..... can anyone please provide any tips to avoid rejections (ie. required documents and supporting documents)?
thanks.

Reg 17 is relevant to making an application to the BIA for a residence card while you are in the UK. To do that, you need to have got married, and to do that, you have to have a C of A (or find a friendly C of E vicar)

If you go to Europe, get married and present a marriage certificate at the passport control, this is what the regulations say:

"Right of admission to the United Kingdom
11.—(1) An EEA national must be admitted to the United Kingdom if he produces on arrival a
valid national identity card or passport issued by an EEA State.
(2) A person who is not an EEA national must be admitted to the United Kingdom if he is a
family member of an EEA national, a family member who has retained the right of residence or a
person with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 and produces on arrival—
(a) a valid passport; and
(b) an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card.
(3) An immigration officer may not place a stamp in the passport of a person admitted to the
United Kingdom under this regulation who is not an EEA national if the person produces a
residence card or permanent residence card.
(4) Before an immigration officer refuses admission to the United Kingdom to a person under
this regulation because the person does not produce on arrival a document mentioned in paragraph
(1) or (2), the immigration officer must give the person every reasonable opportunity to obtain the
document or have it brought to him within a reasonable period of time or to prove by other means
that he is—
(a) an EEA national;
(b) a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that national or join him
in the United Kingdom; or(c) a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent
right of residence under regulation 15.
(5) But this regulation is subject to regulations 19(1) and (2)."

Regs 19(1) and (2) are the "public policy" provision (they won't let you in if you're a criminal, terrorist or have some unpleasant disease), and you have to be accompanied by the EEA national who has a right of residence.

I can't find the instructions about what stamp they would put in the passport if they have to admit you when you don't present a residence card. Having re-entered the country, you would have to apply for one as soon as possible, but obviously you wouldn't need to apply to get married.

[VictoriaS]

If the OP makes a successful application and lets us know, we'll find out, won't we? They have absolutely nothing to lose by doing so, because there's no fee for such applications, and even if it is refused just because of the no-switching technicality all they've got to do is apply in the spouse's own country, and there should then be no reason to refuse it. As Decus et Tutamen said, no need to waste money going back to Australia.

Well, obviously...but what we are saying is that we don't know if the application will be approved or not, and the OP needs to know this.
So it may result in a trip back home in six months time anyway.

NB. I have an outstanding application for an illegal entrant to switch to the family member of an EEA national. The 24th is the six month deadline of the application, so I should know for sure by then what is allowed, as if they allow the switch for my client they will certainly do the same for the OP here as a visitor.

Victoria

[AustGreek]

Well, obviously...but what we are saying is that we don't know if the application will be approved or not, and the OP needs to know this.
So it may result in a trip back home in six months time anyway.

NB. I have an outstanding application for an illegal entrant to switch to the family member of an EEA national. The 24th is the six month deadline of the application, so I should know for sure by then what is allowed, as if they allow the switch for my client they will certainly do the same for the OP here as a visitor.

Victoria

Thanks Victoria.
Can you pls let us know the oitcome of your client's case.
We are still getting things ready for COA and I'm finding it difficult to find a Statutory Declaration Form to support our releationship.
Is there a Statutory Declaration Form that we can download/use as a supporting document for the COA?
Thanks.

[Decus et Tutamen]

If the OP makes a successful application and lets us know, we'll find out, won't we? They have absolutely nothing to lose by doing so, because there's no fee for such applications, and even if it is refused just because of the no-switching technicality all they've got to do is apply in the spouse's own country, and there should then be no reason to refuse it. As Decus et Tutamen said, no need to waste money going back to Australia.

Well, obviously...but what we are saying is that we don't know if the application will be approved or not......

Well, obviously... but the point is that no-one knows whether their application is going to be approved until they get the say so from the BIA. In which case why does anyone one bother applying for anything?

The BIA is bound by the same legislation as us mere mortals, and, in relation to the OP's matter, the law is unequivocal. The OP may make an application that is in keeping with the relevant legislation and, should the BIA then refuse on no switching grounds, such an action would clearly be ultra vires and open to legal challenge.

No switching is a construct of the Immigration Rules and the OP simply would not be applying under those provisions.

[AustGreek]

thanks guys (and girls) for your generous posts.

Hi Victoria, are you able to share your client's recent application approval for his/her switching status.

thanks again.

[VictoriaS]

There is no outcome. The HO have taken over six months now, and I am furious about it.


Victoria

[AustGreek]

There is no outcome. The HO have taken over six months now, and I am furious about it.


Victoria

thanks. pls keep us inform re the outcome.

we are still waiting on the COA result from the HO - have received a letter from them advising that my application will be passed to a casework unit and given "our" reference number.
is there a way of tracking the progress with this reference number apart from this link?
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukresi ... tingtimes/

[AustGreek]

latest progress:

received a letter & COA for Marriage from the HO today.
will be getting the civil ceremony done asap and then apply for a residency card w/ HO.

can anyone please advise if i will be able to seek employment while my residency card application is getting looked at by the HO?

thanks.

[Mr Rusty]

Congratulations on your impending marriage.

Your OP stated that you were here on a "Tourist visa" (presumably a visitor's stamp given by an IO at a port of entry). I'm sure you're aware that you have to apply before that endorsement expires. When you do, you acquire the right to stay here for however long it takes for the application to be decided, but only on the conditions of your exisiting leave.

So if you're here as a visitor, that's what you are until the Home Office says you're something else.

[AustGreek]

Congratulations on your impending marriage.

Your OP stated that you were here on a "Tourist visa" (presumably a visitor's stamp given by an IO at a port of entry). I'm sure you're aware that you have to apply before that endorsement expires. When you do, you acquire the right to stay here for however long it takes for the application to be decided, but only on the conditions of your exisiting leave.

So if you're here as a visitor, that's what you are until the Home Office says you're something else.

thanks.
i have about 3 and half 4 months of vistors visa left (last entry to the UK was just before christmas 2007).
i have booked an appointment with our local registor next week to hand in the notice, so the civil ceremony can take place as soon as it is allowed, then the EEA2 application will be sent "straight after" that event.....
fingers crossed....

is there anything i should be aware of for now?

[Decus et Tutamen]

What Mr. Rusty wrote would be correct if you were to make an application for leave to remain governed by the Immigration Rules, but yours will be under the relevant European legislation.

Effectively, if you are married to a citizen of an EEA country who is considered to be a "qualified person" in the UK (e.g. worker, self-employed, jobseeker, student, self-sufficient), then you can work from the date of your marriage.

The only problem is that you won't immediately have anything to show a prospective employer which says you can work. However, about 2-3 weeks after you submit your EEA2, the BIA should send you a certificate of application which will confirm you can work until such time as they make a decision.