RTI-FPS

[amit8910]

Hi,

Anybody knows how sage produces the monthly report as HO wants?

If sage unable then anyone knows steps to follow to get the report from MONEYSOFT?

One more question-My one employee started from 01/10/2015,
Second employee from 01/05/2016,
I am on payroll from 2014.

If I need to produce FPS from MONEYSOFT then do I need do individual or in group?

Do I need to add myself in FPS report or just two employees?

Does HMRC send us report with starting and ending date on FPS?

Thanks in advance.

[zimba]

If sage unable then anyone knows steps to follow to get the report from MONEYSOFT?

Please seek help from the software help page or their support. I suggest to coordinate this with your accountant

If I need to produce FPS from MONEYSOFT then do I need do individual or in group?

FPS reports are generated for all the people on the payroll on a per month basis.

Do I need to add myself in FPS report or just two employees?

ALL people on payroll show up in the FPS report

Does HMRC send us report with starting and ending date on FPS?

FPS report is generated by a payroll software. HMRC does not give you such reports

[amit8910]

Hi All,

My accountant using sage and he can't produce the FPS report as MONEYSOFT.

1) Anybody is else having same issue or somebody know how to produce FPS as per HO requirement from Sage?

2)If there is no possibility to produce report from Sage.I will do from Moneysoft.However,I think current date appear will come on FPS.Can I amend the date or HO doesn't have any issue with date?

3)Any one got visa who did produced manually FPS from Moneysoft?
4)One other accountant advised me that you should not produce report manually from Moneysoft as it's not legal as you are enot submitting to HMRC.

Can you please guide me please?

Thanks in advance

[zimba]

1) Anybody is else having same issue or somebody know how to produce FPS as per HO requirement from Sage?

Some people have done that

2)If there is no possibility to produce report from Sage.I will do from Moneysoft.However,I think current date appear will come on FPS.Can I amend the date or HO doesn't have any issue with date?

That date is when the reports are generated BY THE SOFTWARE !!! HO has NO ISSUES with that

3)Any one got visa who did produced manually FPS from Moneysoft?

Yes. This has been discussed hundreds of times to be honest !

4)One other accountant advised me that you should not produce report manually from Moneysoft as it's not legal as you are enot submitting to HMRC.

Unless your claims are false and deceptive !!
Generating a software report is fine as long as all the RTI info have been submitted to HMRC previously.
Even if you get the raw XML RTI submission data from Sage, you still need to convert it into a human readable format. It is exactly the same thing as using another Software to generate the reports for you with less effort (based on the original XML data)
Sadly there is no other way.

[annoyedatukba]

I am not sure about Sage, but my accountant was able to generate the RTI FPS on Moneysoft.

You are right there is a date and time stamp at the bottom of the page, but this is not a problem at all.

[amit8910]

Thanks for reply.

Can anyone guide me how to produce the FPS from SAGE so I can tell my accountant to produce?

Thanks for any help.

[zimba]

Sage cannot produce an FPS report. It can only export the RTI information in raw XML format. XML is not human readable, that is why I suggest to get the XML data from your accountant and use Moneysoft to generate readable reports from them.
I attached an HMRC example of RTI FPS in XML format to this post. You can open this in a text editor and see the sample raw FPS data

FPS-Sample.zip

FPS XML sample

(2.07 KiB) Downloaded 212 times

[amit8910]

Thanks Zimba.

I tried with MONEYSOFT and it's very easy to produce report.However,I am getting 20p difference in calculation or report.

Do you have any idea how I can rectify it?

Thanks,

[jafersadeq]

Thanks Zimba.

I tried with MONEYSOFT and it's very easy to produce report.However,I am getting 20p difference in calculation or report.

Do you have any idea how I can rectify it?

Thanks,

As long as you chose the accuracy 0.00 (two decimal numbers), the difference happens, for example, you pay £1000, and the hours worked 34/week, the rate= 1000/34 = 29.411764 , if you chose accuracy 0.00 , the result will be 29.41
if you multiply 29.41 X 34 = £999.94 , 1000-999.94 = 0.06
This is called rounding
It is OK

Thanks

[zimba]

Open Pay details. Open on the menu, Pay > Pay Details
Then adjust the numbers in the table by hand to match the exact values

[amit8910]

Hi Zimba,

I am not getting any option to change it.I can adjust net pay by rounding.However,I am getting difference in NI payment near about 20p.

Can you please advise?

Thanks.

[amit8910]

I found it Zimba that how I can do it.

Money soft's FPS works ...
You need to change figures in the deductions section.

Click on the pound sign- which gives pay details

Now choose an employee, go to adjustments, add employee nic adjustments and employer adjustments ..:
Go to tax and NIC
Add tax amount , employer and employee NIC


And then print it with the correct time stamp!!

Don't forget about the correct time stamp!!

Cheers

[luqmanzaheer]

I found it Zimba that how I can do it.

Money soft's FPS works ...
You need to change figures in the deductions section.

Click on the pound sign- which gives pay details

Now choose an employee, go to adjustments, add employee nic adjustments and employer adjustments ..:
Go to tax and NIC
Add tax amount , employer and employee NIC


And then print it with the correct time stamp!!

Don't forget about the correct time stamp!!

Cheers

hi dear can you explain what you mean with "correct time stamp"

[seasky]

I will remind that we don't know what HO thinks about people fudging data into another SW package. It might be that HO never caught on, or it could be they did catch on and are fine.

At the end of the day this report is a key piece of evidence that you had proper employment, and frankly even though you are inputting correct data (though mistakes could happen), you could just as easily have no employees and submit this RTI FPS report to look perfectly.


I know I called HO twice and they said not to fudge it, rather mention in cover letter (do we know of a case that someone applied explaining in cover letter s/he used HMRC approved SW and it does not format to HO requirements and was declined?). We will know in the next few months if my application is declined/approved

To those that say it is OK, would you fudge a bank statement (with correct data)? ("bank manager was on vacation and I had a deadline so took old bank statement and adapted it, but no worries it is 100% correct data"

To repeat, do we have any evidence on this forum that HO are OK with it? None that I am aware of (we know it seems to work, but just could be no one was caught...)

[jafersadeq]

I will remind that we don't know what HO thinks about people fudging data into another SW package. It might be that HO never caught on, or it could be they did catch on and are fine.

At the end of the day this report is a key piece of evidence that you had proper employment, and frankly even though you are inputting correct data (though mistakes could happen), you could just as easily have no employees and submit this RTI FPS report to look perfectly.


I know I called HO twice and they said not to fudge it, rather mention in cover letter (do we know of a case that someone applied explaining in cover letter s/he used HMRC approved SW and it does not format to HO requirements and was declined?). We will know in the next few months if my application is declined/approved

To those that say it is OK, would you fudge a bank statement (with correct data)? ("bank manager was on vacation and I had a deadline so took old bank statement and adapted it, but no worries it is 100% correct data"

To repeat, do we have any evidence on this forum that HO are OK with it? None that I am aware of (we know it seems to work, but just could be no one was caught...)

With all respect, you mixed between the official document and the printouts,
Bank statements should be original, if it is online printout, you have to stamp it,
if you edited that statement or not, it is not acceptable because it is online copy,
If you edited the bank statement, you cannot stamp it,

Regarding the printouts:
It is not an official document, you can print it in colors or black and white, you can print it on red, green, pink, orange paper,
no one will ask you to stamp it or sign it or put a logo or it should be on an official stationery,
FPS is same payslips, you can print the payslip in excel sheet, no one will ask you why did you use the excel sheet, or why it is black and white,
The printouts should contain the correct data,
So, do not mix the FPS, payslip with the bank statements, or HMRC documents, or Current appointment report.
Thanks

[seasky]

I will remind that we don't know what HO thinks about people fudging data into another SW package. It might be that HO never caught on, or it could be they did catch on and are fine.

At the end of the day this report is a key piece of evidence that you had proper employment, and frankly even though you are inputting correct data (though mistakes could happen), you could just as easily have no employees and submit this RTI FPS report to look perfectly.


I know I called HO twice and they said not to fudge it, rather mention in cover letter (do we know of a case that someone applied explaining in cover letter s/he used HMRC approved SW and it does not format to HO requirements and was declined?). We will know in the next few months if my application is declined/approved

To those that say it is OK, would you fudge a bank statement (with correct data)? ("bank manager was on vacation and I had a deadline so took old bank statement and adapted it, but no worries it is 100% correct data"

To repeat, do we have any evidence on this forum that HO are OK with it? None that I am aware of (we know it seems to work, but just could be no one was caught...)

With all respect, you mixed between the official document and the printouts,
Bank statements should be original, if it is online printout, you have to stamp it,
if you edited that statement or not, it is not acceptable because it is online copy,
If you edited the bank statement, you cannot stamp it,

Regarding the printouts:
It is not an official document, you can print it in colors or black and white, you can print it on red, green, pink, orange paper,
no one will ask you to stamp it or sign it or put a logo or it should be on an official stationery,
FPS is same payslips, you can print the payslip in excel sheet, no one will ask you why did you use the excel sheet, or why it is black and white,
The printouts should contain the correct data,
So, do not mix the FPS, payslip with the bank statements, or HMRC documents, or Current appointment report.
Thanks

You make a fair point. Though one could argue they are asking for a printout of what u sent to HMRC.

Anyway UKVI helpline said not to do it (go ahead call them) and still no evidence HO knows about this practice and is OK with it

[jafersadeq]

If they ask about what someone submitted to HMRC, he has to submit the XML file
Printout FPS report is the summary data in the XML file, you can use this XML file with 100 softwares, and you can produce FPS reports,
If you used Sage, you can use moneysoft or BrightPay and import the XML from sage, then you produce FPS report,
Imagine if you lost your software, what can you do??
Imagine if you have used Sage for 6 months and then you changed to Moneysoft or BrightPay for the other 6 months? in this case you used 50% sage, 50% brightpay? start date does not appear on sage but the leave date appears on brightpay?

All XML files are same data, if there is a difference, HMRC refuses it....
HO is not stupid, they can see your HMRC record easily, and you can see your record online as well, so they do not look at the software you used, they want to see the tax, NI you have paid HMRC,
HMRC accepts all sofwares on their website, if you used sage or brightpay the accept it, if you used 50% of each, it is fine.
I ask you a question, if you lost your data,and you called HMRC, they will send you all data on plain paper, in this case how can you argue with HO because no start date on that paper !!! they will refuse you even if HMRC sent that document to you.
I have 3 softwares in my PC, I use one to report RTI, but I can print any report from any software, all softwares accepted by HMRC.

Thanks

[seasky]

If they ask about what someone submitted to HMRC, he has to submit the XML file
Printout FPS report is the summary data in the XML file, you can use this XML file with 100 softwares, and you can produce FPS reports,
If you used Sage, you can use moneysoft or BrightPay and import the XML from sage, then you produce FPS report,
Imagine if you lost your software, what can you do??
Imagine if you have used Sage for 6 months and then you changed to Moneysoft or BrightPay for the other 6 months? in this case you used 50% sage, 50% brightpay? start date does not appear on sage but the leave date appears on brightpay?

All XML files are same data, if there is a difference, HMRC refuses it....
HO is not stupid, they can see your HMRC record easily, and you can see your record online as well, so they do not look at the software you used, they want to see the tax, NI you have paid HMRC,
HMRC accepts all sofwares on their website, if you used sage or brightpay the accept it, if you used 50% of each, it is fine.
I ask you a question, if you lost your data,and you called HMRC, they will send you all data on plain paper, in this case how can you argue with HO because no start date on that paper !!! they will refuse you even if HMRC sent that document to you.
I have 3 softwares in my PC, I use one to report RTI, but I can print any report from any software, all softwares accepted by HMRC.

Thanks

That XML will have the data of the SW you use, and suddenly you send them a printout of another SW....

Group think is a dangerous phenomenon where a group of people convince themselves something is correct. I am offering a contrarian view and NO ONE has given any evidence that HO is OK with this .

As I said, I called HO and they said not to do this....

[jafersadeq]

Please try to call HMRC and ask them about which software you are using... They do not tell you because they do not see it in your record
I am sure 100%

[zimba]

RTI standard is Software agnostic. ALL approved payroll Software speak the same language and therefore are able to submit FPS data to HMRC. HMRC has no idea which software you used to submit your payroll data. It is completely irrelevant to them.
You can in theory write your OWN payroll software. All the technical details of this are publicly available online on GOV.UK website and you can even register as a Software developer to implement all sort of HMRC Software including Payroll. However you must get it approved first by HMRC before letting public to use it for payroll.

An FPS report is simply a SUMMARY of what a payroll Software transmitted to HMRC (the same way a payslip is summary of what you paid an employee) so it can have any format or shape however the information on it must be correct. Such report is not an official document like a bank statement. Bank statements are produced ONLY and officially by a bank, so you cannot tamper with them for that reason.

The immigration rules do NOT even mention the FPS reports. They simply ask you to submit your RTI Full Payment submissions (whatever that means).
The purpose of this is to see when someone started and how much salary/NI/tax you have paid to HMRC.
Now surely sending the case worker all of the printouts of your FPS in XML format is certainly stupid as they are unintelligible to a lay person (case workers are not techies) Therefore I suggested to turn the XML file into a human readable document and send those with your application. Obviously some Software do this for you automatically as FPS reports. To be safe, attach the XML printouts too.

I am trying to provide as much information on this as this topic has now been discussed hundreds of times and is becoming boring to go over it every couple of days to be honest

[seasky]

RTI standard is Software agnostic. ALL approved payroll Software speak the same language and therefore are able to submit FPS data to HMRC. HMRC has no idea which software you used to submit your payroll data. It is completely irrelevant to them.
You can in theory write your OWN payroll software. All the technical details of this are publicly available online on GOV.UK website and you can even register as a Software developer to implement all sort of HMRC Software including Payroll. However you must get it approved first by HMRC before letting public to use it for payroll.

An FPS report is simply a SUMMARY of what a payroll Software transmitted to HMRC (the same way a payslip is summary of what you paid an employee) so it can have any format or shape however the information on it must be correct. Such report is not an official document like a bank statement. Bank statements are produced ONLY and officially by a bank, so you cannot tamper with them for that reason.

The immigration rules do NOT even mention the FPS reports. They simply ask you to submit your RTI Full Payment submissions (whatever that means).
The purpose of this is to see when someone started and how much salary/NI/tax you have paid to HMRC.
Now surely sending the case worker all of the printouts of your FPS in XML format is certainly stupid as they are unintelligible to a lay person (case workers are not techies) Therefore I suggested to turn the XML file into a human readable document and send those with your application. Obviously some Software do this for you automatically as FPS reports. To be safe, attach the XML printouts too.

I am trying to provide as much information on this as this topic has now been discussed hundreds of times and is becoming boring to go over it every couple of days to be honest

HMRC certainly DOES know which SW you use. This is logical as HMRC has an approval process for SW vendors, it is also logical for many other reasons, e.g. forensics of fraud, forensics of problematic SW ("the reports we get from moneysoft v 2.1.2.3 have an bug, lets contact vendor") .

It is common for SW to communicate version. The servers that run these forum knows exactly which borwser/version we are using


Here is snippet XML of SW from the links you sent:

-<ChannelRouting>
-<Channel>
<URI>your 4 digit vendor ID</URI>
<Product>your product name</Product>
<Version>your product version</Version>
</Channel>
<Timestamp>2018-03-20T12:00:00</Timestamp>
</ChannelRouting>

As you can see it has vendorID/product name/product version. If CW was so inclined (and usually wouldn't be...) they could see that you report in 12pay and submit moneysoft reports

a. why don't you call HMRC and ask them,openly in detail, I know the answers I got (though wouldn't be surprised if answers are different we know hotline is not binding, and that will be useful learning)

b. we still have no evidence this is OK. We on the forum have learning (for example that ..."4 people 6 months each" actually means any variant of hours). We need evidence HO are aware people are people do this. e.g. in cover letter state "my HMRC approved 12pay does not show to HO formatting standards so I ported the XML to Moneysoft")

c. if it is all about formatting the easiest solution to 12pay is use a PDF editor and add the words "starters... leavers...." (I was not able to find raw XML from 12pay BTW, maybe did not search hard enough)

d. you talk as if HO is rational on this. But actually the underlying demand that an HMRC approved SW be formatted to a different level for HO is -not rational- I delayed my ILR submission by almost 3 months because of this issue. (I tried to manually port employee data to Moneysoft but was two complicated with paternity/maternity/bonus/overtime/child vouchers/pay raise/sick leave on 10+ employees)

[jafersadeq]

One of my friends got his visa extension last year, he lost his SW-daata totally (he had XMLs), he entered all data in Excel sheet, even the payslips, he used Excel sheet, he named it RTI-FPS Submission, it was black and white.
His visa took 2 weeks time to get approval.
They payslips was very simple, the FPS was very simple as well, no software for getting those reports.

His solicitor told him that HO wants to see the data only to calculate hours.

Thanks,

[annoyedatukba]

One of my friends got his visa extension last year, he lost his SW-daata totally (he had XMLs), he entered all data in Excel sheet, even the payslips, he used Excel sheet, he named it RTI-FPS Submission, it was black and white.
His visa took 2 weeks time to get approval.
They payslips was very simple, the FPS was very simple as well, no software for getting those reports.

His solicitor told him that HO wants to see the data only to calculate hours.

Thanks,

I told my solicitor that this is what we should do, just create a plain table on Excel and enter the data ourselves so that includes all the information. I was sure that would work.

He was extremely adamant and insisted that won't work and that it had to be identical to the information sent to HMRC. Finally my accountant used Moneysoft to generate the reports in the required format.

[seasky]

His solicitor told him that HO wants to see the data only to calculate hours.

Well we clearly know they also want starter/leavers, in fact that is the whole point of all of this (are you paying attention??) that some SW does not show that

[jafersadeq]

He added Starter/ Leave in the excel file, you have phobia of FPS.