New laws for spouse

[joshe2]

Hi everybody,
I believe this issue might have already been discussed, but I cant find it. So sorry if I'm repeating a topic. I have a friend who is in the process of getting married from abroad. I know the government is consulting on whether to make English speaking a requirement for bringing spouses over & also raising the age for spouses coming over. The consultation process is closing on 27-02-08. Does anybody have an idea how serious these proposals are and how soon will they be implemented?

[John]

It will be months away, if ever, that such proposals are implemented.

When is your friend getting married?

[joshe2]

He wants to get married in April, but is worried that he might get caught in the age/English speaking ruling as his fiance doesnt speak any English and they are both under 21.

[Administrator]

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Is her visa already approved ..?

If yes, he has no worries.

As John said, the rule is not implemented yet .. so it would take at least a few more months to get it passed & implemented. If she will arrive in April or earlier, I think it's just about impossible for the law to change that quickly (for this condition).

However, I'll disagree with John on another aspect .. I think the language and age limits are inevitable. It is only a question of time. As the Tier system becomes fully implemented, I expect these conditions to be considered and possibly added from the beginning.

If not, I feel certain they will be added in as an amendment fairly "soon" afterward. Maybe within one or two years.


Sadly, bringing in under-aged (or very young) spouses who don't speak the native language is a human trafficking problem that Europe in general is taking a pretty hard look at. If I remember correctly, it was Germany that just passed such laws (during the summer?) last year.

the Admin

[ On EDIT: bringing a fiance into a country for marriage is (usually) different than getting married in another country and bringing that person in as an established & documented spouse. ]

[John]

However, I'll disagree with John on another aspect .. I think the language and age limits are inevitable.

We shall of course need to wait and see. You are probably right about the language ability but as regards the age aspect, even if the Government does bring that in, I would expect it to be successfully attacked under Human Rights legislation.

Also to bring in a worldwide ban, to tackle a forced marriage situation that arises in just a small minority of countries, is simply overkill.

Human Rights? Well yes. If the law of the country permits, as it does, 18 year olds to get married, why would the Government be permitted to keep couples apart until they reach 21 years of age?

[Administrator]

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As you said, we shall see in time.

I was speaking to the age requirement more generally, though. Conceivably, it could be set at 18 or 19 or 20, also.

And, agreed, the age requirement would face a tougher battle.

Speaking to Human Rights, it is not just arranged marriages that are of concern. The human trafficking problem I alluded to goes a bit deeper. Europe in general is looking harder at all aspects, and forced "marriages" for profit are a bit different than the traditional arranged marriages from some cultures.

I suspect (maybe hope is more accurate) that "properly" arranged & documented marriages based upon traditional cultural roots may very well receive different or specialized treatment, assuming no coercion is involved.

All in all, we may see legislation in Britain before the end of this year, successful or not. By 2010 or by the 2012 Olympics - which seems to be some goal for immigration policy clean-up - I'm expecting changes from what we see today.

Hopefully to the betterment of all.

the Admin

[AlexCh]

Human Rights? Well yes. If the law of the country permits, as it does, 18 year olds to get married, why would the Government be permitted to keep couples apart until they reach 21 years of age?

Well - the law in the country allows unemployed to get married, but you cannot bring your spouse from abroad if you don't have means to support him or her. Similar problem?

[Administrator]

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Oh. Yeah, ran across this tonight from references twin gave for rights to access to a child. There are already age limits .. to be clear, it seems we are discussing the INCREASE in age limits in the future.

Entry Clearance Guidance, Volume 1 - General Instructions (02/01/08 )
13.21 - Age requirements for spouses and civil partners (Rules Paragraph 277)

The Immigration Rules do not allow any person to be granted an entry clearance as the spouse or civil partner of another if the applicant will be aged under 18 on the date of arrival in the United Kingdom. Any entry clearance application from a spouse/civil partner (i.e. a married person or a person in a civil partnership who would be under the age of 18 years when entering the UK) should, therefore, be refused. An applicant who is over the age of 18 but married to/in a civil partnership with a person who is under 18 should likewise be refused entry clearance.

In cases where the applicant is within a couple of months of his or her eighteenth birthday, and the other party is 18 or over, you have discretion to issue entry clearance but it can only be valid from when the person under 18 has reached his/her eighteenth birthday.

When an applicant has reached the age of 18 but was married or in a civil partnership before attaining that age, the ECO will need to consider the question of whether the marriage or civil partnership is valid. Although no child under 16 is able to contract a valid marriage in the United Kingdom, the laws of a number of countries do allow children under 16 to contract valid marriages in certain circumstances.

There are two requirements which have to be met before an overseas marriage with one party under 16 can be recognised under the laws of the United Kingdom:

• the marriage is valid in the country in which it took place (i.e. it is legal for parties under 16 to marry and the marriage itself complied with the formal requirements of the country in which it took place);

• both parties to the marriage had the legal capacity under the law of their domicile to marry each other (i.e. the law of their domicile allowed marriage with a person under 16, and they were free to marry in other respects).

the Admin

[PaperPusher]

But the minimum age for marriage is 21 in at least 1 country. India.

The minimum age to get married is 18 for women and 21 for men. If they get married younger than that, it doesn't necessarily mean the marriage is invalid.

I know about that one.

After a quick search, a few more from wikipedia:

China 22M 20F
Turkey 20
Philippines 21
Senegal 20

The ages for marriage across the world (I know this is a bit of a different issue from EC as a spouse) range from 9, to 22 as in PRC above.

The problem seems to be that the minimum age is 18, in Scotland 16, without parental consent, but there would be a different requirement to get a visa.

That said, I have never even heard of anyone getting married at 16 in the UK, except in the tabloids. Never even seen it in older generations. Even 18 seems really young to me. I have only come across a few people who got married that young.

[joshe2]

Thank you everybody for your replies.
His fiance hasn't got a visa yet, he is planning on marrying in April and then applying for her visa as an established and documented wife.
The problem will arise if the law gets passed in April or there abouts.
Under these circumstances what would be his best course of action?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Administrator]

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The law will not change by April regarding the age limit. Stop thinking about that problem. There are other, real problems to spend time & energy on resolving.

So long as she is 18 or older when she tries to enter the country on a spouse visa, she will get in. Unless there are some other issues unrelated to age or being married.

She will have to get her spouse visa from outside the UK. If they are planning to get married inside the UK, she will not be able to switch her visa while still in the country.

• United Kingdom Marriage Visa

• Fiancé/e of UK Citizen, permanent resident or EU Citizen

the Admin