Where in Europe shall we move to?

[Ben]

This probably sounds a little strange, but..

My wife and I are bored living here in Ireland. I'm British, my wife is Singaporean. We also have a new baby. My wife has residency here in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.

We were thinking maybe Holland. Don't know why, really, other than I have a perception of Holland to be clean, safe, pro-Europe and they generally speak English (true?).

We can both speak English fluently but no other European language. Obviously, the UK or Ireland would be most convenient in this regard. But, as I said, we're pretty fed up of slow, boring Ireland and the infamous Department of Justice and how they treat people. We could move to the UK, but what we see on Crimewatch puts us right off (tongue in cheek).

So, could anyone recommend anywhere? Neither of us are highly skilled, but we'd pretty much do any job. I've experience in Technical Support, and my wife in Customer Services.

We love living overseas, and plan to make full use of our EU Treaty rights.

Any suggestions welcome.

[John]

We could move to the UK, but what we see on Crimewatch puts us right off (tongue in cheek).

I know that is a tongue in cheek comment but a TV programme devoted to places where there are no crimes ..... featuring people who have never committed a crime in their life .... would not exactly make riveting viewing, would it!

If worried about the area of the UK you come from, well live elsewhere in the UK!

I have a perception of Holland to be clean, safe

There are clearly parts of cities such as Amsterdam that are anything apart from clean and safe! The English language? It is the first foreign language taught in Dutch schools, and generally many adults can get by in English.

[Ben]

Hi John, thanks for your reply.

I see your in Birmingham. I'm from Lichfield originally. Twas lovely when I was growing up, but a recent visit back there showed me that it isn't half a dive nowadays.

I know what you're saying, about some parts of the UK being nicer than others, and you're right mate. We just fancy a change really. We get itchy feet, and life in Ireland is taking it's toll now.

Anyway, I've been having a look on the net and I can't really find many suitable jobs for us un-skilled folk in Holland.

Belgium, on the other hand, seems to have a few call centre jobs going, that require native English speakers.

It's just, Belgium doesn't strike me as a particularly interesting place to live. Now, I could be completely wrong, since, like my assumptions about Holland, I'm really plucking them from the air with absolutely nothing to make me think that.

But Belgium. Hmm.. just seems a bit boring, doesn't it? Or am I wrong? I've never been. Perhaps a short holiday is in order, me thinks.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

There are lots of wonderful options within Europe. But reading about places will not tell you nearly as much as a quick weekend visit. Ryanair, for all their faults, is a cheap way to move around for a little new-member-state hunting. And Dublin is one of their hubs.

[cantaro]

Let's fire ahead. :)

In my experience, the Netherlands are generally a clean place with friendly people, most of which happen to speak enough English so that you can get by in everyday life. For getting a job there, however, you will almost always need a certain level of Dutch, unless the job in question is done entirely in a foreign language. For a first idea of whether there is anything interesting for you, look at e.g.

http://www.expatriates.com/classifieds/ ... ands/jobs/

The same will be true for just about any other country you can go to: unless you find a job that is done entirely in English, you will need a certain knowledge of the local language.

As far as places go, I am German and thus have lived in Germany. Proof of qualification (degrees etc.) is very important there, as is knowledge of German. I have worked in the Netherlands for a while, and while they value practical experience, qualifications are also important, as is the Dutch language. I have investigated Spain (because my wife is Argentinian and we both speak Spanish); finding a job there is fairly easy if you have contacts — the more people you know, the better your chances, as most jobs there are given to family, friends, and acquaintances — but wages are low, and you will probably find yourself unable to support your family unless both of you have a job.

To sum it up: go where they speak English (UK, Gibraltar, Malta) or learn the language of your destination properly to have a chance of finding a decent job.

These are just my €0.02.

[giwuken]

belgium is a very interesting place to live: not only you have a multi-lingual society, there's soo much different geo and historical areas, all within a short drive, and most people also speak englsih, or can at least help you.

[Wanderer]

belgium is a very interesting place to live: not only you have a multi-lingual society, there's soo much different geo and historical areas, all within a short drive, and most people also speak englsih, or can at least help you.

And Leffe, Duvel, Chimay.....

[Ben]

Thanks to everyone for your valuable replies.

I'm rather embarrassed about my lack of Belgique knowledge (is that the correct term to use?). At least I was nearly there with Holland though.

I think unfortunately we're pretty screwed. Being from the UK, we're rather spoilt, in that English is spoken virtually everywhere to at least a degree, and so not a lot of us bother to learn European languages fluently (or at least beyond secondary school), quite contrary to our mainland European cousins. It's quite an embarrassing and obviously prospect limiting fact.

I could learn, I suppose. But I'm already a speaker of Mandarin, Cantonese and Malay. I'm trying to learn a bit of Arabic too, but that's proving quite difficult. I'm 25 now and my brain isn't quite as spongy as it used to be.

Malta and Gibraltar. Hmm, interesting. My family used to visit Malta annually when I was growing up. It was almost like a second home to us. I used to say when I was a kid, that I'd love to live in Malta when I grow up! From what I've heard though, the Maltese, friendly as they are, are not usually quite as friendly when Brits move over and take their jobs. Again, I'm not being very PC there, and I could be totally wrong too. Apologies if I am. Please don't slate me.

I'll do a little research on Gibraltar though. I must admit that, like Belgium, Gibraltar is a country I know pretty much nothing about. Is English a first language there? Right, research time. I'll start with Wikipedia me thinks.

Thanks again guys!

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I'm 25 now and my brain isn't quite as spongy as it used to be.

Ouch for those of us who are a touch older than a baby-faced 25.

Is Gibralter a country? And can one move there freely as either a UK or European citizen?

[Ben]

Is Gibralter a country? And can one move there freely as either a UK or European citizen?

It's a British Overseas Territory, apparently. And Directive 2004/38/EC applies, apparently. That's good to know..

[leelaa]

Hello,

i know this is off topic but what is Directive 2004/38/EC?.. did your wife have any problems getting residency? sorry, i'm asking because i'm in a similar situation..
any help would be appriciated very much...

leelaa.

[chem1]

belgium is a very interesting place to live: not only you have a multi-lingual society, there's soo much different geo and historical areas, all within a short drive, and most people also speak englsih, or can at least help you.

And Leffe, Duvel, Chimay.....

I would second all this. I lived in Brussels for a year. It was fantastic....once you get by the awful weather. That was the hardest part for me (coming from Canada but having spent a lot of time in Spain). But if you are coming from england, the weather will be no problem for you. I found Brussels to be quite a fun and exciting city. If you are 20 or 30 something and single, you couldnt ask for a better place to meet people. I know a lot of families find it quite comfortable too. Something like 50% of the Brussels population is from outside of Brussels..and most are young professionals and english is almost always the common language tying people together. It was a ton of fun....maybe too much?? .
If you are coming form the UK, you'll find brussels real estate rather cheap too. This part is good. Brussels is a bit dirty though...I found belgium that way in general...its not quite as clean as you might find a dutch or german city. But its not too bad.

If you are looking for something a little more low key, the surrounding ares in Belgium are quite nice too, particularly in Flanders. Gent and Brugge are both wonderful cities as is Antwerp in my opinion. The cities in the French side of the country...well...I didnt find them quite as appealing.
Belgium is wonderfully connected to everywhere too. Talk about easy to get to the rest of europe from.

[runie80]

We could move to the UK, but what we see on Crimewatch puts us right off (tongue in cheek).

are you serious ?

We moved to UK from Ireland and I must say WE ARE LOVING IT.

Awesome place, Lovely People, Excellent Weather, Good Infrastructure & More Professional opportunities.

U may be feel more safe in Ireland because they dont have BBC equal ant
and Most of the crimes are not repoted.

Do you know how many shootings happen there in limerick & Dublin ?
Do u know the drug and drink scene there ?

The truth is that ur not safe anywhere these days.

We feel more safe in UK then we did in Ireland.

UK has bad areas too but if u move to a nice area I dont see u having any problems.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/break ... 471605.ece
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0228/rta.html
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaki ... king28.htm
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0227/robbery.html

Above links give u a snapshot

and u will see most killers or criminals are never caught in ireland and even if they are caught the sentences are too lenient.

Thats my opinion

[Ben]

Hiya runie80!

are you serious ?

Not entirely mate, hence the "tongue in cheek" reference.

We moved to UK from Ireland and I must say WE ARE LOVING IT.

Awesome place, Lovely People, Excellent Weather, Good Infrastructure & More Professional opportunities.

Glad to hear you love my country so much. You're right, compared to Ireland there is good infrastructure and also possibly more professional opportunities, depending on your profession, of course. But lovely people? Ok, perhaps depends on who you meet and where / how you meet them. Excellent weather? Come on now, I know you're joking on that one..

U may be feel more safe in Ireland because they dont have BBC equal ant and Most of the crimes are not repoted.

Do you know how many shootings happen there in limerick & Dublin ?
Do u know the drug and drink scene there ?

Agreed, parts of Dublin and Limerick are notoriously "rough", shall we say. But I don't think anyone can honestly say that they truly believe Ireland, in general, to be more violent than the UK, in general.

The truth is that ur not safe anywhere these days.

I'd agree with that. Nowhere, really, is without it's share of scum nowadays.

We feel more safe in UK then we did in Ireland.

That's interesting. I suppose it depends on where exactly you've come from and to. As someone born and bred in England, but now living in Ireland, my opinion is that I feel that Ireland is generally a safer country than the UK.

..and u will see most killers or criminals are never caught in ireland and even if they are caught the sentences are too lenient.

Makes for interesting reading, thanks.

Meanwhile.. I'm getting more and more interested in Gibraltar, thanks to cantaro . From what I've read so far, trawling the net, a good idea is to rent an apartment in La Linea, Spain for as little as €330 (in late 2005 at least, according to a post on that thread), and walk across to Gibraltar daily, which takes around 20 minutes (allegedly). And to my luck, Gibraltar appears to have a reasonable number of contact centre / online support centre jobs - and they require native English speakers! At least, that's what I found on a few recruitment websites.

Anyway, it's early days and I'm still researching. Thanks again for all your input guys.

[mym]

Hello,

i know this is off topic but what is Directive 2004/38/EC?..

leelaa.

!

You have been given lots of free advice here, including about the Directive and you appear to have read none of it and done no research.

[Christophe]

We were thinking maybe Holland. Don't know why, really, other than I have a perception of Holland to be clean, safe, pro-Europe and they generally speak English (true?).

It is true that many people in The Netherlands speak English extremely well and can happily conduct their business affairs in English and socialise in English. However - the fact that they can socialise in English doesn't mean that they choose to do so when they are in their "own" setting, and a person who speaks only English is at a great disadvantage when it comes to integrating into Dutch life. This may not matter for a person who is planning to spend a relatively short time in The Netherlands (a few years, say), but from what you say it sounds as if you are looking for somewhere to make a truly new life...

[Ben]

It is true that many people in The Netherlands speak English extremely well and can happily conduct their business affairs in English and socialise in English. However - the fact that they can socialise in English doesn't mean that they choose to do so when they are in their "own" setting, and a person who speaks only English is at a great disadvantage when it comes to integrating into Dutch life. This may not matter for a person who is planning to spend a relatively short time in The Netherlands (a few years, say), but from what you say it sounds as if you are looking for somewhere to make a truly new life...

Thanks Christophe. I think you're right, and it makes perfect sense. Looking at Gibraltar now, potentially.. Still researching!

[THagard]

This probably sounds a little strange, but..

My wife and I are bored living here in Ireland. I'm British, my wife is Singaporean. We also have a new baby. My wife has residency here in accordance with Directive 2004/38/EC.

We were thinking maybe Holland. Don't know why, really, other than I have a perception of Holland to be clean, safe, pro-Europe and they generally speak English (true?).

We can both speak English fluently but no other European language. Obviously, the UK or Ireland would be most convenient in this regard. But, as I said, we're pretty fed up of slow, boring Ireland and the infamous Department of Justice and how they treat people. We could move to the UK, but what we see on Crimewatch puts us right off (tongue in cheek).

So, could anyone recommend anywhere? Neither of us are highly skilled, but we'd pretty much do any job. I've experience in Technical Support, and my wife in Customer Services.

We love living overseas, and plan to make full use of our EU Treaty rights.

Any suggestions welcome.

heres an idea, move to antarctica so nobody will have to deal with your pathetic mule. dont worry, no one will miss you.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Wow, that was an insightful and useful comment!

[Fairtrade]

We were thinking maybe Holland. Don't know why, really, other than I have a perception of Holland to be clean, safe, pro-Europe and they generally speak English (true?).

It is true that many people in The Netherlands speak English extremely well and can happily conduct their business affairs in English and socialise in English. However - the fact that they can socialise in English doesn't mean that they choose to do so when they are in their "own" setting, and a person who speaks only English is at a great disadvantage when it comes to integrating into Dutch life. This may not matter for a person who is planning to spend a relatively short time in The Netherlands (a few years, say), but from what you say it sounds as if you are looking for somewhere to make a truly new life...

I agree with Christophe 100%, just because alot of people in the Netherlands can speak English it doesn't always means they choose to speak it whithin the Netherlands. You will find that alot of people working in lower skill jobs like at checkouts in shops or at the markets do not speak any english at all.

Like they say when in Rome.........

[Ben]

heres an idea, move to antarctica so nobody will have to deal with your pathetic mule. dont worry, no one will miss you.

To quote the PM just sent to me by THagard:

YOU MAKE THE MOST WORTHLESS POSTS. WHY DOES THAT SURPRISE ME. YOURE A WORTHLESS PERSON. I CANT EVEN CONSIDER YOU A PERSON BECAUSE YOURE SUB HUMAN. SO WHY DONT YOU JUST KILL YOURSELF RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE IF YOU DONT, I MIGHT HAVE TO SLIT UR THROAT FOR YOU. AND YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE, BECAUSE I MIGHT SHOW UP AT YOUR DOORSTEP TOMOROW. OR SHOULD I JUST BASH YOUR SONS HEAD IN? I WOULD ENJOY THAT. HOW BOUT I BASH YOUR HEAD IN FIRST WHILE YOUR SON WATCHES? PRAY TO gOD I DONT FIND YOU OR YOUR SON. BECAUSE IF I DO. YOUR LIFE WILL BE CHANGED DRAMATICALLY. I CAN SEE WHY YOU GO FOR SINGAPORE BICHES BECAUSE NO BRITISH BICH WOULD WANT YOU, YOU facing LOSER. EVEN THE SCUM OF BRITAIN WONT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU.

For anyone still reading this and for those who don't know me, I happen to be a happily married man with a wonderful loving wife. We have been blessed recently with gorgeous baby boy, who is now 7 weeks old.

A few posts up I was complimenting Ireland on what a safe country I feel it is, in comparison to the UK. Obviously I'm not so naive as to base or change my opinions as a result of some juvenile, empty threat or hate mail. However, I have decided not to post any more, at all, on immigrationboards.com. This will be my last post.

This thread aside, I hope I've helped people with their immigration queries, especially those on the Ireland section, in their dealings with the infamous Department of Justice.

I've enjoyed my time on immigrationboards.com and would like to thank users Directive/2004/38/EC, JAJ, archigabe, yankeegirl, thsths, John and more (and there are more, I'm sorry but it's late and my wife and I are a little shaken up), for your life changing advice and support.

Regards to all,

benifa.

[archigabe]

'THagard' seems to be a really nasty piece of work and the comments he/she seems to have sent is intolerable.Banned!