Worried - no acknowledgement e-mail/mail and no biometrics letter

[tallahassee]

Hi all,

I just started to fill out section 1 of Form AN and I already got stuck. I have checked the AN Guide and it didn't clear things up for me.

1.1 Please give any reference numbers used in your immigration applications.
I am an EEA national and don't have any. I do however have a letter from the HO I received with my PR card that has a case ID at the top right on it. Do I put that there or leave it blank?

1.2 Current passport/travel document number
I have an EEA passport and ID card. Does whichever I put there also have to be the one I submit with my application? Or can I put my passport number there and then submit my application with the EEA ID card?

1.3 Date you were given indefinite leave to enter/remain in the UK (not necessary if you are a Commonwealth citizen with right of abode in the United Kingdom). If you are an EEA national, a Swiss national or a family member of an EEA or Swiss national you should read pages 10 to 11 of the Booklet AN.
It doesn't say anything anywhere on whether to actually put the date of acquiring EEA PR in there or whether to leave this section blank. There is a separate section (2.4) where one is asked again for EEA PR card and date of issue number?

And finally, where do I put my first and middle name? The Form AN looks like below:

1.5 State your name as it appears on your passport:
Surname/family name:
Other names:
If you do not have a passport, state the name used on your official documents (Home Office
travel document, national identity card, biometric residence permit).
1.6 If the name stated above is not the name you use for all purposes, state:
The surname/family name
that you use:
Other names used:
The reason why this is different from the name on your passport or other official documents:
[....]

But the Guide AN says:
1.5 Enter your surname or family name as you want it to appear on your certificate.
1.6 Enter your other names as you want them to appear on your certificate. For
example if your name is Taher Mohamed Hashim Al Hassan and you are known as
Mr Al Hassan then put Al Hassan in section 1.5 and Taher Mohamed Hashim in
section 1.6.


--> Judging by the form, it would make most sense to put the first an middle name by 'Other names:' under 1.5, especially as 1.6 seems to require for a reason for filling out section 1.6. However, the example given in the AN Guide, seems to clearly indicate to put you first and middle names under 1.6...?!

Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I was quite surprised as to how confusing the first few fields were already. I hope the rest will be more straight forward.

Thanks a lot for your help.

[alterhase58]

1.1 Please give any reference numbers used in your immigration applications.
I am an EEA national and don't have any. I do however have a letter from the HO I received with my PR card that has a case ID at the top right on it. Do I put that there or leave it blank? Use that number there.

1.2 Current passport/travel document number
I have an EEA passport and ID card. Does whichever I put there also have to be the one I submit with my application? Or can I put my passport number there and then submit my application with the EEA ID card?Enter the number of the document you are submitting, passport or ID card. Remember if you use NCS you will retain your originals.

1.3 Date you were given indefinite leave to enter/remain in the UK (not necessary if you are a Commonwealth citizen with right of abode in the United Kingdom). If you are an EEA national, a Swiss national or a family member of an EEA or Swiss national you should read pages 10 to 11 of the Booklet AN.
It doesn't say anything anywhere on whether to actually put the date of acquiring EEA PR in there or whether to leave this section blank. There is a separate section (2.4) where one is asked again for EEA PR card and date of issue number? Leave blank.

And finally, where do I put my first and middle name? The Form AN looks like below:

1.5 State your name as it appears on your passport:
Surname/family name:
Other names:
If you do not have a passport, state the name used on your official documents (Home Office
travel document, national identity card, biometric residence permit).
1.6 If the name stated above is not the name you use for all purposes, state:
The surname/family name
that you use:
Other names used:
The reason why this is different from the name on your passport or other official documents:
[....]

But the Guide AN says:
1.5 Enter your surname or family name as you want it to appear on your certificate.
1.6 Enter your other names as you want them to appear on your certificate. For
example if your name is Taher Mohamed Hashim Al Hassan and you are known as
Mr Al Hassan then put Al Hassan in section 1.5 and Taher Mohamed Hashim in
section 1.6.


--> Judging by the form, it would make most sense to put the first an middle name by 'Other names:' under 1.5, especially as 1.6 seems to require for a reason for filling out section 1.6. However, the example given in the AN Guide, seems to clearly indicate to put you first and middle names under 1.6...?!
Enter your real names in 1.5 as you describe above - if you use a different name then put it in 1.6 and explain.
Sorry if these questions seem silly, but I was quite surprised as to how confusing the first few fields were already. I hope the rest will be more straight forward.
We have all been through it ....
Thanks a lot for your help.

[tallahassee]

Thank you very much for your helpful reply.

With regards to 1.3 and leaving it blank: It doesn't ask you under section 2.4 when you acquired EEA PR, only when the card was issued. For me the card was issued only 6 months ago, whereas I acquired PR 12 months ago. How do I ensure I don't get rejected on the basis of them thinking I haven't held PR for 12 months year, if there is no field for the acquired PR date?

Thanks.

[Indguru90]

Thank you very much for your helpful reply.

With regards to 1.3 and leaving it blank: It doesn't ask you under section 2.4 when you acquired EEA PR, only when the card was issued. For me the card was issued only 6 months ago, whereas I acquired PR 12 months ago. How do I ensure I don't get rejected on the basis of them thinking I haven't held PR for 12 months year, if there is no field for the acquired PR date?

Thanks.

If your DCPR was issued six months ago, it would have been accompanied by a letter stating the date of deemed acquisition of PR status. That date is recorded on UKVI's Case Information Database (CID). Caseworkers must review applicants' CID files before considering the application, and record the PR date on the naturalisation file. You shouldn't therefore be worried about getting a refusal.

There have been reports of wrong dates on CID, but that was before UKVI began stating the date of deemed acquisition of PR on the cover letter. If you use the Nationality Checking Service, the NCS officer will contact UKVI to ensure that the recorded date is correct. And if you want to feel extra safe, you can include a copy of the letter granting you PR with the date (though that won't be necessary).

[tallahassee]

Great, thank you so much for your reassuring words

[tallahassee]

Hi all,

I know this may seem a little like a ridiculous question, but seeing how badly the AN Form is designed and how badly trained the HO staff appear to be, the below has me slightly worried.

Question 2.1 on the AN Form states:

2.1 Date and place of first arrival in the United Kingdom (see page 8 of the Guide):

And the Guide for this question states:

2.1 Enter the day you first arrived with a view to staying in the UK on a long-term
basis, and the airport or seaport through which you then entered. If this is less than 5
years before the date on which we receive the application, or less than 3 years
before this date if you are married to or the civil partner of a British citizen, you might
not meet the residence requirement (see page 6 of the Booklet AN) and your
application may be unsuccessful.

Now my problem is that I first arrived in the UK on the Eurostar at Waterloo Terminal, which is neither an airport nor a searport. Moreover, Waterloo terminal hasn't been the international train station since 2007 (if I remember correctly), and was moved to St. Pancras since.

Hence my concern that the case worker won't know this (especially if they are based in Liverpool) and think I filled out the form incorrectly if I just put 'Waterloo Station' there. Any advice on ensuring that they don't see this as an error on my part?

I really don't see how this form, which has been around for so long and redesigned so often, can be so badly designed that it is confusing and doesn't accommodate for all possibilities.

Thanks

[CR001]

Please keep all your questions on the same application in a single topic (this one).

Simply write 'by Eurostar into Waterloo Station'.

[tallahassee]

Thanks CR001 - and noted, will keep all questions in this thread.

[Indguru90]

Hi all,

I know this may seem a little like a ridiculous question, but seeing how badly the AN Form is designed and how badly trained the HO staff appear to be, the below has me slightly worried.

You haven't even submitted your application yet and are already banging on about "how badly trained" caseworkers seem to be (which they are not). As for form AN, yes the beauty of a decade ago was that it was a mere 4 pages but it has become ever longer precisely because people needed more and more explanations of what are really non-issues. Nobody will get a refusal for using common sense in this process.

[tallahassee]

You haven't even submitted your application yet and are already baning on about "how badly trained" caseworkers seem to be (which they are not).

This application costs £1200 and the AN form has been revised X number of times so by now it should leave no room for ambiguities. I don't want to fail on a technicality, and that can always happen, even if it doesn't as a rule of thumb. I also never said 'case workers' but 'HO staff'. I have dealt with the EEA citizen helpline for my PR application and every time I called I received a different answer to the same questions. Reading stories on here of people getting their biometrics letters sent without a first name several times also doesn't help fill me with confidence.

This is to say that I am not basing what I said on nothing. However, you are correct, those may be exceptions and I shouldn't be so quick to judge, so apologies. I am not here to argue.

--------

I had a few final questions on the form that I was hoping someone could answer:

Question 1.49 - Address of tax office or tax office reference
I asked my employer for this and they gave me an address that starts with 'HMRC' - is this correct?
They also gave me a PAYE code, is this the tax office reference? format 123/A1

Question 2.2 - Absences for the last 5 years
Can I simply staple a printed Excel sheet to this page and write 'See attached'?

Question 2.4 - Are you an EEA or Swiss national or the family member of an EEA or Swiss national?
Do I just write ' Yes, EEA national' in here?

And for the PR card number, there is one same number printed at the bottom of each page of the blue booklet, format X1234567 and there is a different, 7 digit number at the top right of the actual sticker with my details and photo on it. I assume the number to use is the latter?

Question 5 - Referees and identities
Is there a best way to glue my photographs to the page? I am not sure what the purpose of me writing my name and date of birth at the back of the photo is, if I just glue them to the page after?

Evidence
Do I actually need to include p60s and payslips with my application if I have a letter from my employer covering the last 5 years?

@CR000 You said to always reply to this thread, but I wasn't sure how to update the topic to make it relevant to my new questions.

Thanks all for your help.

[CR001]

Question 1.49 - Address of tax office or tax office reference
I asked my employer for this and they gave me an address that starts with 'HMRC' - is this correct?
They also gave me a PAYE code, is this the tax office reference? format 123/A1

Yes

Question 2.2 - Absences for the last 5 years
Can I simply staple a printed Excel sheet to this page and write 'See attached'?

You should complete the table. If there is not enough space, attach an additional sheet.

Question 2.4 - Are you an EEA or Swiss national or the family member of an EEA or Swiss national?
Do I just write ' Yes, EEA national' in here?

Yes

And for the PR card number, there is one same number printed at the bottom of each page of the blue booklet, format X1234567 and there is a different, 7 digit number at the top right of the actual sticker with my details and photo on it. I assume the number to use is the latter?

I believe so yes.

Question 5 - Referees and identities
Is there a best way to glue my photographs to the page? I am not sure what the purpose of me writing my name and date of birth at the back of the photo is, if I just glue them to the page after?

Normal glue. It is so that if the photo becomes detached from the application, HO can match it to your form

Evidence
Do I actually need to include p60s and payslips with my application if I have a letter from my employer covering the last 5 years?

As an EEA/EU applicant, I understand that you do. Wait for others to comment.

[alterhase58]

Evidence
Do I actually need to include p60s and payslips with my application if I have a letter from my employer covering the last 5 years?

As an EEA/EU applicant, I understand that you do. Wait for others to comment.

Employer Letter confirming that you work for them or have worked for them is acceptable, very handy if you work for the same employer long-term.

[tallahassee]

Thank you both again, alterhase58 & CR000, for all your help.

I still have a few last minute questions (submitting my application via NCS next week). =)

1.48 Address of employer or business
Do I put the address of the building I am in (London) and that my payslips are made out to, or do I write down the address of the headquarters (different address in the UK)?

NCS
Do I need to bring a pre-paid envelope with the HO address to the NCS or do they provide this over there? What exactly is the process, do they just check your form & supporting documents, take photocopies of them and post them for you?

Supporting documents
I will be adding the following supporting documents to my application, please let me know if you think I require anything else (EEA citizen applying):
- EEA ID card
- Employment letter (stating I started 6+ years ago)
- 1 printed (PDF) P60 per year
- LIUK pass letter
- EEA PR card + Letter confirming date of PR acquisition
- The payment slip for the AN fee
*edit* - my UK university bachelor's degree certificate

[CR001]

1.48 Address of employer or business
Do I put the address of the building I am in (London) and that my payslips are made out to, or do I write down the address of the headquarters (different address in the UK)?

Date where you work.

NCS
Do I need to bring a pre-paid envelope with the HO address to the NCS or do they provide this over there? What exactly is the process, do they just check your form & supporting documents, take photocopies of them and post them for you?

No need for a pre paid envelope. They check the form, copy all your documents and send it

[tallahassee]

Thanks CR001 - not sure what you mean by 'date where you work' though? Question was regarding the address of the employer

[CR001]

Thanks CR001 - not sure what you mean by 'date where you work' though? Question was regarding the address of the employer

Sorry, I mean address (studying and immigrationboards simlutaneously clearly doesn't work )

[tallahassee]

Cheers - and good luck with your studies

[thsths]

You haven't even submitted your application yet and are already banging on about "how badly trained" caseworkers seem to be (which they are not). As for form AN, yes the beauty of a decade ago was that it was a mere 4 pages but it has become ever longer precisely because people needed more and more explanations of what are really non-issues.

And yet I cannot blame the OP. He certainly already had experience with Home Office case workers, and it is a pretty widely shared experience that they can disappoint even if you expect the worst.

As for the form and the two sets of guidance notes: they are highly contradictory, incoherent, inconclusive, and distinctly unhelpful even in reasonable normal cases. Don't blame people for what they are, blame the process for not coping with people.

On this basis, and given that a mistake of the Home Office can easily cost the applicant 1300 pounds or more, I have to say that the concerns of the OP are perfectly reasonable.

[tallahassee]

Hi all,

Thank you all again for your help, it's much appreciated.

I have my NCS appointment in 7 hours and I have one last urgent question:

The e-mail I received when booking the NCS appointment states:

The following documents may be needed at your appointment, depending on the type of application you are making.

[...]

For adult applications
* Your completed application form (this must be the most up to date version)
* Your passport / travel document covering the qualifying period, this includes expired passport / travel document.

I am applying as EEA citizen with an EEA ID card. Do I still need to provide old, expired ID cards as well? My latest one was only renewed last year. Or is this mainly for non-EEA citizen with stamps in their passports?


Thank you very much again!

[tallahassee]

[ Don't seem to be able to edit my above point]

Also: It suggests I need to bring my current (EEA) passport with me and send it off. As I am applying using NCS, will they also be able to take a certified copy of this so that I can keep my passport?

Thanks

[CR001]

ALL your documents will be copied and returned to you.

[tallahassee]

As always, thank you for your help CR001 - it is much appreciated.

Applied yesterday, everything went fine - except that the NCS worker put my EEA PR date in the ILR date field under point 1.3. I told her she wasn't meant to but she put it there anyway. Hopefully it won't be an issue.

Anyway, now the wait begins...

[tallahassee]

Hi,

I applied for citizenship on the 14th of September via the NCS and my application reached them on the 15th of September. The money for the application was deducted from my credit card on the 20th of September.

I have however not received any acknowledgement e-mail, letter or biometrics letter since. It has now been 8 business days since my application and 4 since the money has gone out of my account.

Looking at the August & September timelines of other users, I ran some quick average statistics and could see that on average people receive their acknowledgement e-mails / mails in 3-4 days business days after their application in August and in 5 days in September. The money usually gets deducted in 4.5 days in August and 3 days (more or less in line with my timeline) in September, and the biometrics letter takes 5-6 business days to arrive after the application. In short, usually once the money is deducted, all letters should arrive within 2-3 days at latest.

So the fact that I haven't received any acknowledgement e-mail/letter/biometrics letter 8 business days after submitting my application is definitely out of the ordinary, it seems. I am also worried because my letter box is kind of exposed and I have had mail gone missing earlier this year, so I am not sure if this is what is happening now?

How do I go about contacting the HO to asking them whether they had sent anything out yet and if not why not?

I know this may sound a bit silly as it's 'only been 8 days', but not receiving my biometrics letter has definitely been my main point of concern throughout this application, due to my previous issues with the post.

Your help is much appreciated.

Thanks

[bruteforce]

If they have taken the money from your account then your application is on right track. You should be receiving acknowledgment soon. They will normally email you as well if you have provided them your email address. Nothing to worry about so soon.

[tallahassee]

If they have taken the money from your account then your application is on right track. You should be receiving acknowledgment soon. They will normally email you as well if you have provided them your email address. Nothing to worry about so soon.

Thanks for your reassuring words, brtueforce. The letter showed up yesterday =) They were sent on the 20th and somehow Royal Mail took 8 days to deliver them...

I had a quick question about which photos end up in the passport. I submitted 1 photo with the citizenship application and 2 with the JSP passport application. The biometrics letter states that further photos will be taken at the post office.

Would anyone know whether its the photos submitted with the passport application or the one taken at the post office that end up in the passport?

I am just wondering whether I should shave before going to the post office...

Thanks!