Can you transfer to Tier 1 before HSMP expires?

mkopff · Post by **mkopff** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:09 am

I have an HSMP visa that expires in February 2009 (I got my permission before the changes in Nov. 2006). Given all the new rules, I would really like to switch to the Tier 1 visa NOW, rather than waiting until my HSMP expires in February 2009. In other words, this would be 11 months early.

I know that the old rules were that you couldn't renew until 2 months before the HSMP expiry date, but I was wondering if this is still true? I don't see that anywhere in the new official rules - one of the stated categories is for people "already in the United Kingdom under the Highly Skilled Migrant Programme, want to extend your permission to stay and are eligible to switch into Tier 1."

It says nothing about having to wait until the HSMP expires.

I want to do this because I lost my job at the end of the year and would like to have my 2007 earnings calculated for the points system, rather than my 2008 earnings.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.

WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:40 am

mkopff wrote:
I know that the old rules were that you couldn't renew until 2 months before the HSMP expiry date, but I was wondering if this is still true?

That was never actually a rule, one has always been able to apply at any time for the extension. The same applies now.
________
The cigar boss

MyHSMPApplication · Post by **MyHSMPApplication** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:42 am

This actually is a very good point. I don't see any reason why one cannot apply rightaway. Atleast officially there isn't anything that is stopping the applicant from applying. However before doing so, I would put a word to the home office just to clarify the same.
Cheers

smartwave · Post by **smartwave** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:12 am

will this reset the clock?

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:18 am

why will it reset the clock. it is not like he is shifting from hsmp to WP. he is trying to shift from hsmp to tier 1 and not tier 2. interesting scenario. i hope it works out for the original poster, but best to clarify from BIA contact section by sending an email now and proof of their official response and then follow it. if talking on phone and follow advice and later things go wrong after following advice then there wont be proof of the conversation. so best to write to BIA by email and follow advice. dont forget to print out email responses you get from BIA as sometimes emails or access to your email provider or mail box might belost so always print out vital emails for proof later. best of luck. do let us know how things work out. your situation and plan of action might help others in similar situation in future as well.

sunny9675 · Post by **sunny9675** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:32 pm

even shifting from hsmp to tier -2 will not reset clok

but not sure

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:38 pm

shifting from hsmp to wp reset the clock.

there was supposed to be relief from this rule in the new scheme but i cant see where they have given relief, even those some statements to this effect were made earlier.

tier 2 seems to be similar to wp, so unless they have modified the wp like rules earlier, then i guess the same situation as before will be applied

also even if they waive the resident market test for shifting to tier 2. you still need a sponsor, what if the employer refuses to apply for tier 2, you are dependent on the employer and stuck to that employer, unlike on hsmp.

best bet option is hsmp moving on to tier 1 after hsmp expiry. but even there there are repurcussions for doctors as new tier 1 visas are stamped as not eligible to apply for training jobs, while hsmp visas were allowing that. i can understand that being applied for only new entrants to tier 1. but knowing the atrocious position of the govt on retrospective effects of new rules, i suspect they will enforce new rules of not for training jobs when people already on the hsmp scheme move onto tier 1 now. i know they have said wont affect people already in training jobs. but what about people in nontraining jobs and made uk their main home as per hsmp scheme and here for 4y or more (pft+hsmp) and not having ILR, these people have made uk their home as allowed by hsmp and may be in nontraining jobs now and wanting to get into training jobs. i am pretty sure when they shift to tier 1 now they will find themselves screwed with the not eligible for training jobs stamp, as the hsmp dependents are already screwed as per govt statements that they will not be eligible for training jobs now. earlier hsmp dependents had unrestricted employment rights now their careers are shot to bits overnight if doctors. unlike some other professions doctors training is not easily transferable across countries due to licensing rules etc, now due to new restrictions on dependents already in uk on hsmp dependent visas if they are doctors their careers are destroyed overnight with new rules retrospective effects. if they move back to other countries half way through training, they will be usually going back to square 1 of training rather than pick up where it ended in uk.

gordon · Post by **gordon** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:37 pm

See the updated rules for Indefinite leave to remain for a work permit holder.

134. Indefinite leave to remain may be granted on application to a person provided:
(i) he has spent a continuous period of 5 years lawfully in the UK, of which the most recent period must have been spent with leave as a work permit holder (under paragraphs 128 to 133 of these rules), and the remainder must be made up of leave as a work permit holder or leave as a highly skilled migrant (under paragraphs 135A to 135F of these rules);
(ii) he has met the requirements of paragraph 128(i) to (v) throughout his leave as a work permit holder, and has met the requirements of paragraph 135G(ii) throughout any leave as a highly skilled migrant;
(iii) he is still required for the employment in question, as certified by his employer; and
(iv) he has sufficient knowledge of the English language and sufficient knowledge about life in the United Kingdom, unless he is under the age of 18 or aged 65 or over at the time he makes his application.

So for those applying now for ILR from a work permit, it appears that the rules have been changed so that movement from HSMP to WP to ILR (in that sequence) no longer implies resetting of the settlement clock; they are now permitted to amalgamate the time to meet the residence requirement. But unless I've read this too narrowly, this provision appears limited: going forward, those who shift from Tier 1 to WP will implicitly reset their settlement clocks toward ILR, since Tier 1 time is covered by paragraph 245A-F, and not comprised in paragraph 135A-F.
AG

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:55 pm

good news for people forced to move to WP if your interpretation is right gordon.

i have some queries

what happens to people who were told to shift from hsmp to wp but refused and appealed and won in AIT. but found their joy short lived when they got dumped with discretionary leave to remain instead of hsmp visas effectively resetting the clock and an uncertain future even for future discretionary leave renewals.

what about amalgamation of permit free training period (for doctors when employed in training grade and drawing salary which was counted for hsmp purposes) and hsmp or WP. can this option be used for 5y ILR purposes

just trying my luck. does anyone know of such cases that suceeded.

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 pm

also what happens to people who are unable to shift from hsmp to tier 1 and if they move from hsmp to tier 2 directly. will this reset clock to zero

mkopff · Post by **mkopff** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:09 pm

I just called the BIA and they confirmed that if you send in an application to renew your HSMP (i.e. convert it to a Tier 1) before it is due to expire, they will simply keep your money and turn down your application. They confirmed that you should NOT try to renew your HSMP before the 28 day period prior to its expiry.

Harsh.

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:17 pm

Hmm...But some one (hari15)just did it...Check this thread

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=23595

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:23 pm

ashishashah wrote:Hmm...But some one (hari15)just did it...Check this thread

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=23595

Please read why>?
Because of good reason, not to save money or to contravene new procedures.

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:37 pm

Right,But if u see now they are saying that

they will simply keep your money and turn down your application. They confirmed that you should NOT try to renew your HSMP before the 28 day period prior to its expiry.

While earlier they would CONSIDER the application..

mkopff · Post by **mkopff** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:03 pm

I don't really know that they won't CONSIDER it. It was just the quick response that the person on the phone at the BIA gave me. I assume if you have good reason, they will consider it, but there is some chance you will be turned down and you will lose your money.

When I explained to them that it is difficult to get a job if you can't demonstrate that you have a valid visa for at least a year going forward, they basically said, "Too bad."

In the past, employers new that the HSMP was easy to renew if you were gainfully employed. Now they will know that there is a good chance you will lose your visa on the expiry date. It will be much tougher to get a job. The BIA has just made this all SO MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. They are not cracking down on illegal workers, rather, they are making it a lot easier for legitimately highly skilled people to be forced to leave the country for technicalities. Sigh.

WoodieG · Post by **WoodieG** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:06 pm

mkopff wrote:I just called the BIA and they confirmed that if you send in an application to renew your HSMP (i.e. convert it to a Tier 1) before it is due to expire, they will simply keep your money and turn down your application. They confirmed that you should NOT try to renew your HSMP before the 28 day period prior to its expiry.

Harsh.

That's definitely wrong, although to be fair they don't exactly go out of their way to advertise that you can so their staff might not be aware either. You can definitely apply early for an extension.
________
Expert insurance

vinay shanthi · Post by **vinay shanthi** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:29 pm

my friend applied 3m in advance for hsmp renewal but his marriage in india was around time of renewal, so he couldnt send his passport late as he needed to travel, so he included an explanatory note of the problem and why he was applying early and he was given visa extension. but in your case i don know. maybe you can try including an explanatory note that says in view of the fact that you have les than 1y left for renewal and no employer will employ for such a short duration and that you have been in full employment till now and satisfy all other earnings criteria and other criteria, inform that you are not trying to evade rules but only asking for their help in renewing visa now early so that you can be successful in securing job after having visa for longer duration. TELL THEM IN VIEW OF THE HSMP SCHEMES IDEOLOGY BEING TO ATTRACT AND KEEP HIGHLY SKILLED MIGRANTS IN UK, THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ACCEPTED INTO THE SCHEME AND NOW YOU ARE ONLY ASKING FOR THEIR DISCRETION SO THAT YOU CAN BE IN GAINFUL EMPLOYMENT SOON AGAIN AS EMPLOYERS WOULD LOOK MORE FAVOURABLY WITH LONGER VISA ON YOUR PASSPORT AND THAT WAY IT GOES WITH THE ETHOS OF THE HSMP SCHEME !! long shot but what other options do you have?? ask them to view the application in light of the special situation you are in and that you are asking for their discretion only for early application and not for leniency in any renewal criteria. cant think of anyother way. because if you dont get a job soon then you are stuffed. so better try this way otherwise u r in trouble. try getting a letter of support from your local MP for this and include mention in your cover letter about it being enclosedas an enclosure. best of luck

Post by **Administrator** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:43 pm

.

New Announcement:

-> UK Tier 1 visas (HSMP unavailable soon) -> Summary of Tier 1 IMMEDIATE changes, from 29 February

the Admin

balusri · Post by **balusri** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:03 am

Hi all.. I've a similar problem. My HSMP expires in Nov 08. Because of this I am not able to get a mortgage for a new house. I want to apply for Tier 1 now itself, but dont know whether they will accept it or not. I've mailed homeoffice about this and waiting for reply. Dont know how long they will take to reply. Please help me out guys.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:18 pm

mkopff wrote:
When I explained to them that it is difficult to get a job if you can't demonstrate that you have a valid visa for at least a year going forward, they basically said, "Too bad."

I am with the HO on that one, that's not really a good reason. And frankly you need to distinguish an excuse from a real issue. Those employers telling you otherwise are full of it. I have gotten hired one month before my hsmp visa expired and they didn't even bat their eyes.

SYH · Post by **SYH** » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:19 pm

balusri wrote:Hi all.. I've a similar problem. My HSMP expires in Nov 08. Because of this I am not able to get a mortgage for a new house. I want to apply for Tier 1 now itself, but dont know whether they will accept it or not. I've mailed homeoffice about this and waiting for reply. Dont know how long they will take to reply. Please help me out guys.

go to another lender, that's nothing new or a real challlenge, check other postings on the issue

HSMPgafla · Post by **HSMPgafla** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:07 pm

Hi all,
I got my initial HSMP visa on july 2006 (i am on 2 + 3 scheme), and my visa expiary date is 13th July 2008. I am pemanent employee in automotive company.
I have few questions regarding the application date for HSMP extension under Tier 1, I am sure you guys must know the answers.

1. I am getting my payslip on 24th April 2008. So, is it possible to apply for extension on 15th of May? (Have no particular reason)
2. I am getting my pay on 24th of each month. So will it be OK if I start from 1/05/2007 to 30/04/2008 to claim my earning points?
3. I am exactly on 75 points.
20 for Age
35 for Qualification
5 for Uk experience
15 for Earning
Will this create any truble?
4. I have more than Â£800 in my bank account now. So can i satisfy fund maintenance requirements if i keep the enough balance and submit bank statements from 13/03/2008 to 13/05/2008?

Thanks

karen6703 · Post by **karen6703** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:57 pm

I would like to ask this group a much more basic question regarding HSMP status upon job termination.

I have an HSMP visa which is valid through October '08. It took effect in October '06; prior to that time, I worked in the UK on a dependent visa from October '03 through October '06. I applied for and received my HSMP visa in 2006 after divorcing my ex.

I recently (Feb '08) left my job, and have since been travelling. I planned to return to the UK in April and seek work (my significant other is there still); I believe I can find a new job by October, in hopes of extending my HSMP (or, if I can, applying for residency). But I am receiving conflicting information about the status of my HSMP visa since leaving my job. (I emailed the HO to confirm my understanding of the matter, but received a vague response at first, then they stopped responding... making me nervous... so I am seeking additional guidance.) My question is: Is the HSMP visa valid through October '06, even if I am unemployed (seeking new work)?

More specifically:
- do I have the right to come and go from the UK despite my unemployment (I am aware I can't access public funds, I don't need to, I just want the right to remain and seek a new job)?
- does my visa status change at some point (28 days, or otherwise) after my last day of work? Or does it only change in October when my HSMP expires?

I believe (from some advice I received, and from this thread -- which suggests that other HSMP visa holders remained in the UK while looking for new work) that I can remain in the UK and keep seeking new employment. But I am nervous. I will return to the UK in April, but need to travel a few times in the 2 months following, and I don't want to find myself high and dry trying to re-enter the UK!

All advice welcome... thanks for your help!

karen6703 · Post by **karen6703** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:03 pm

My apologies for a typo in my post. The sentence:
"My question is: Is the HSMP visa valid through October '06, even if I am unemployed (seeking new work)?"

...should read:
"My question is: Is the HSMP visa valid through October '08, even if I am unemployed (seeking new work)?"

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Can you transfer to Tier 1 before HSMP expires?

Can you transfer to Tier 1 before HSMP expires?

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Please forgive the ignorant question...

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