re-applying after EU-FAM declined.

[b68722]

Hi all, I found out today the EUFAM for my wife was rejected. She has been told she must leave on the 8th December, just 12 days time. Does anyone know, if we appeal this decision, will she be able to remain while the appeal takes place?

[broli]

Hi ,

What was reason for refusal please state clearly so that people can share their experience ?

Did they give the option for appeal ? (she can saty while appeal takes place but she may not be given a stamp to work but thats Okay)

[CR001]

What was reason for refusal please state clearly so that people can share their experience ?

The users previous posts (May this year) suggest the OP is a frontier worker, ie. British citizen living in Rep of Ireland but working in Northern Ireland. Not sure if this is perhaps the issue.

[b68722]

hi thanks for the quick reply.

My wife was rejected on the basis I am a frontier worker. However I plan to appeal. The letter states quite clearly that she must return on the 8th December but then states we have 15 working days to appeal. The appeal must be in writing,

If I submit the appeal we she be allowed to remain? There does not seem much time..

[broli]

Thanks @CR001


My understanding from a colleague who had a similar is issue is the Appeal must be accepted . He appeal and the responded I dont recall the waiting time for the response (they just said she will have to wait for the appeal result with expired permit)

If the Appeal is accepted is being processed then obviously she can stay. She only have to leave on the said date if she don't appeal.


For your appeal to be accepted , you must really make sure that you address the reason for which EU4FAM was rejected (as stated in the EU review form).

Where necessary check legal help.

[mgb]

Normally a frontier worker exercise his treaty rights as self-sufficient person in the residence country if this is not his home country.

[broli]

Normally a frontier worker exercise his treaty rights as self-sufficient person in the residence country if this is not his home country.

Very good idea ! i wonder how he applied

[b68722]

this is a very good idea. I originally just submitted the EU1 form. But is there a separate process or appeal under the self sufficiency criteria? Will self-sufficiency be taken into account by INIS if it is not explicity stated on the original forms?

[dupalsky]

Hey b68722,

I have been fellowing this conversation. What do you mean "you just submitted the EU1"? Is this to say that you left the space that you required to complete blank or what, even though the application form specifically says that "NO INCOMPLETE APPLICATION WILL BE ACCEPTED OR CONSIDERED". I mean you have just manage to make something that is relatively simple and easy, complicated!

You have been a member on this forum even before your wife arrived in the state as I read all your past posts. You inquired about what visa type to get her over here and she got here, you decided not ask question about fill out the EU1. You have to understand that, left for the Irish immigration, they would rather have your wife sent back to Thailand than to have her here and you just keep making it easy for them. This is a matter of immigration, you every degree of meticulousness in dealing with it.

Now that I have gotten the above off my mind, there two ways a frontier worker can prove his independence,

1) Self-sufficient: the only problem with this is just showing that you are working is not enough, you need to also show a reasonable lump sum amount in your account, especially seeing that your wife is fully dependent on you. Also, you need to also have health insurance that covers both yourself and your wife and this actually where your problem lies in taken this route, because you must have had the health insurance prior to submitting the application. In other words, taking this route now will not do you any good as they are already aware that you didn't have insurance immediately your wife arrived.

2) self employed(self assessment). This is the option that I will encourage you to fellow. Basically, you register yourself as self employed and fill out self assessment for each year for the Irish revenue.

You really need to be careful of what you sent to them from here on as you have one last attempt to persuade them to change their decision.

Dupalsky

[mgb]

1) Self-sufficient: the only problem with this is just showing that you are working is not enough, you need to also show a reasonable lump sum amount in your account, especially seeing that your wife is fully dependent on you.

The financial resources have to be higher than to trigger social welfare.
I guess the OP is not working for free in NI.

# Also, you need to also have health insurance that covers both yourself and your wife and this actually where your problem lies in taken this route, because you must have had the health insurance prior to submitting the application. In other words, taking this route now will not do you any good as they are already aware that you didn't have insurance immediately your wife arrived.

There is a agreement about frontier workers in place between ROI and NI.
As far as I know there is no additional health insurance needed due to this agreement.
National law trigger article 37 of the directive.

Btw. the first 3 months of stay are unconditional.

[dupalsky]

Hi mgb,

Thanks for your "attempt in correcting my comments". But I think I never suggested that he was working for free. I am fully aware that he is in employment! But this employment, I am afraid is not recognised by the Irish immigration, hence the problems he is having and the suggestion he has gotten so far on how to solve this problem from other members. Therefore, your comments "financial resources having to be higher to trigger social welfare doesn't even come into play here".....

I am well aware of the agreement you referred to between RO and NI, but this medical card DO NOT cover his spouse. Therefore, his spouse should have been insured all the while if he was to go down the self-sufficient route....

With regard to the 3 months grace period, I think this is common sense. I am guessing, even the OP is aware of it.

Dupalsky

[mgb]

But this employment, I am afraid is not recognised by the Irish immigration, hence the problems he is having and the suggestion he has gotten so far on how to solve this problem from other members.

The wage for this employment has to be recognised. It is a financial resource.

I am well aware of the agreement you referred to between RO and NI, but this medical card DO NOT cover his spouse. Therefore, his spouse should have been insured all the while if he was to go down the self-sufficient route....

Due to this web page dependants of frontier workers are entitled to a medical card in ROI.
http://borderpeople.info/a-z/frontier-w ... ments.html

[b68722]

Thanks for your help with this. Really appreciate.

My wife applied for and got a medical card (but with GP visit only). She does have private medical insurance so that is not a big issue.

I did setup a company in Ireland in September, but what type of evidence can I use to prove this? This company has not made a profit yet, my main source of income is from my job in Northern Ireland. Is it enough to have just set up a company in Ireland if I cannot draw any income from this source?

[dupalsky]

Hi b68722,

It's good to know that your wife has a medical insurance as limitation to GP visit, is not a full health insurance that immigration requires.

But as i made clear in previous posts, you only need health insurance if you were to apply as self sufficient. If you are to apply as self employed, you do not need health insurance.

Now, to be able to answer your question, I have some question of my own:

1) did you register the company in the RO or NI?

2) when you registered the company, what did you declare that the company deal with, in terms of day to day business activity? Explain

3) how long have you lived in the RO and work in NI?

4) around what date and month did your wife arrive in the RO?

Dupalsky

[mgb]

It's good to know that your wife has a medical insurance as limitation to GP visit, is not a full health insurance that immigration requires.

If a medical card is good enough for irish citizen it is also good enough for eu citizen and their family members. Discrimination is not allowed.

[broli]

It's good to know that your wife has a medical insurance as limitation to GP visit, is not a full health insurance that immigration requires.

If a medical card is good enough for irish citizen it is also good enough for eu citizen and their family members. Discrimination is not allowed.

It says in the Irish version of Eu treaty rights comprehensive healthcare insurance cover . A medical card doesn't fill that requirement

[mgb]

I mentioned already that national law trigger article 37 of the directive.

[mgb]

Article 37
More favourable national provisions

The provisions of this Directive shall not affect any laws, regulations or administrative provisions laid down by a Member State which would be more favourable to the persons covered by this Directive.

[b68722]

If my wife is not allowed to stay, does anyone know the timescale for re-applying at a later date?

Also we have already sent the appeal, and we received a letter stating that while the appeal is being processed she can stay until September 2018. If the appeal is turned down could they make her leave sooner than this date?

[b68722]

Hi if a EU Fam is declined, how long does a person have to wait to re-apply again for the whole process? (ie the applicant returns to there home country, do they have to wait months or years to re-apply again)

[CR001]

Hi if a EU Fam is declined, how long does a person have to wait to re-apply again for the whole process? (ie the applicant returns to there home country, do they have to wait months or years to re-apply again)

Topics Merged (click)

[mgb]

If my wife is not allowed to stay, does anyone know the timescale for re-applying at a later date?

Why so pessimistic?
If your wage from the north is above the threshold for social welfare in ROI the case is clear.
Even if not INIS has to consider the personal circumstances.
At the end you can fire up your self-employment if needed.