WHY BECOME A BRITISH CITIZEN?

[JJUSA]

Okay I'm new here and I have this question in my mind and I can't get sense out of it, so maybe you fine people can help me.

I came to live in the UK as an European Citizen or as they say an EEA national 6 years ago, and I have also become a Permanent Residence even though was never a requirement in order to stay in the UK as you all know.

I have met my wonderful wife who actually is not an EEA national, neither a British Citizen, and after we got married, I have applied for an EEA family visa in order to her to join and live with me in the UK.

Her mother who obviously is my mother-in-law, also a non EEA national, have been already 4 times in the UK visiting us on the EEA transit visa or something similar I really can't remember the proper name.

Anyway, as I said I am a permanent resident and I even took the life in the UK test which I have passed since I was working my way out towards British Citizenship. What does intrigates me a bit among all, is the fact that I have been free to come, live, work, study, even establish a business in the UK for free. I was able to bring my non EEA wife to this country also in a free visa. My mother-in-law similarly come to see us serveral times and we never had the need to pay for her visa. I haven't paid for my Permanent Residence and apparently netiher my wife will need to since she's a dependent of an EEA citizen neither take the life in the UK test to become a permanent resident. So basically I have never paid a single penny to the UK immigration for whatsoever thing besides the life in the UK test which cost me if I'm not mistaken £30.

As I approached the road to British Citizenship, I was informed that doing so would affect my wife status because she wouldn't be under the EEA visa any longer, but would have to apply for settlement visa since I would become a British Citizen. That visa is not free and if I'm right is just over £200. My mother-in-law would not either be able to come to the UK under the EEA tourist or transit visa because I would become British and she would need to apply for another type of tourist visa which will cost about £150 every time she would like to come here.
Permanent Residence for my wife would not be for free any more and would cost around £400 because I would become British and she would need the life in the UK test done, and if I and her one day decided to become both UK citizens we would need to pay £500 each for the application although there's an option for £750 for a couple I think.

Since we also visit often shangai states in Europe, my wife shangai visa would stop being for free as well and adding all this up in the long term we are talking of hundreds if not thousands of pounds. My question is.... Where are the benefits of becoming a British Citizen? Is that just for the sake of voting?

I have all rights of abode, governmet help and protection as a permanent residente with the difference of not being able to vote, but as far as I am concerned that's all. Traveling to US, Canada, Australia, Caribeean and wherever you can think of I can do that without a need of a visa on my EEA passport likewise a British. I have been to the US 4 times, always on the waiver pilot visa so I pretty much can go everywhere in the globe with my EEA passport. Ok in my passport I get only 3 months tourist visa to US and British nationals get 6 but who cares? Who is going for holidays anyway for 3 or 6 months?

Are there any benefits and I mean a big picture that anyone here in this forum can see and explain to me? Why on earth would I go ahead with my application and pay so much money in so many different ways? I just see disadvantages of becoming British and great advantages of keeping an EEA national.

Anyone?

Thanks

[smacky123]

my husband was in a similar situation and was advised to become a british citizen so that should anything happen to him abroad the british embassy is more efficient than other embassys an he can easily get help.

[gollywood]

Who said 'the best things in life are free'?

I thought you going to be grateful that it hadnt cost you a penny up until now.

wrong time to get all 'scroogy'

[Christophe]

The decision is up to you, of course. You don't say what nationality you hold now or whether you would retain it if you became a British citizen. If you did retain it, I am not sure that you couldn't continue to use your other EU/EEA nationality as the basis for your wife's continued residence in the UK and your mother-in-law's visits to the UK if you wanted to — others may be able to help here. (Of course, if you would lose your present nationality, that would not apply — whether you would lose it or not depends on which country you are a citizen of.)

Becoming a British citizen would give you an absolute right of abode in the UK, which you don't have at present. There are circumstances (albeit fairly extreme ones) in which a non-British EU/EEA citizen can be denied the right to live in the UK. More importantly, probably, it is also conceivable that at some point in our lifetime there will be a resumption of some sort of immigration controls on EU/EEA citizens, which probably wouldn't affect you if you were still living here but might if you were not still here but wanted to return. (Some people laugh at this idea, but many stranger things have happened in the history of immigration over the years.)

More immediately, it would enable you to vote, which might or might not be important to you (although, given that people have died for the right to vote and in some parts of the world still are, some would argue that it ought to be important).

Ultimately, it might come down to a question of where you see your future as being. If you see it as being in the UK, then it seems — to me — that there is a lot to be said for becoming a British citizen. I say "to me" here because it is very much a personal decision and, as I said, one that is up to you. Personally, unless money is a real problem, I shouldn't have thought that the cost ought to figure too highly in your decision-making, but again that is up to you.

[sakura]

As you wife is her under the EU immigration route, she can continue with the EEA residence card under your (non-UK) nationality. She does not need to have a spouse visa, even though she is also eligible for one. Whoever told you that she cannot use the EEA residence card once you become a British citizen is wrong.

See here: http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=25209

So, you can use the EU route or the UK route. She can also switch to the UK immigration route - but of course it would cost a lot more. If you don't mind waiting for PR or naturalisation, then it's best to stick to the EU route cost-wise.

You mentioned that you have "right of abode" - not entirely. Your right to remain in the UK isn't inalienable or absolute and you could be removed (for example, you can be deported to your home country if you commit a serious crime). You have rights under the EU regulations, but that is dependent on the UK being a member-state of the EU.
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_abode

You also do not have diplomatic protection by the UK authorities in foreign countries - this is important to understand. If you get in trouble in a foreign country, only the country of the nationality you possess can help - the UK does not protect you overseas unless you are a British citizen (or any other list of nationalities covered by the embassies overseas).

The most important thing you left out - what is your current nationality? Are you able to have dual citizenship, or would you have to renounce your current nationality?

[JJUSA]

I'm a Portuguese National and I would keep both nationalities so I would not lose my Portuguese one. However that does not matter. I was told by the Immigration and Naturalization office that as long as I have an UK passport it will automatically overules any other passport I might have while in the UK, so my wife would lose all EEA route and I couldn't apply under EEA basis any longer in any circumstances.


You said:

Becoming a British citizen would give you an absolute right of abode in the UK, which you don't have at present.

I disagree with that because in the sense that I am a Permanent Resident and in my Permanent Residence card says:

"... Generally, after five years' residence in the UK exercising a treaty right a national of an EEA State becomes a permanent resident and may request a Document Certifying Permanent Residence. There are no restrictions on the activities which a national of an EEA State who is a permanent resident is able to undertake including:
Work
Self-employment
Study
Seeking access to social assistance on the same terms as a British Citizen.
Nationals of an EEA State who meet the relevant residence requirements are free to make an application for British Citizenship."

My Permanet Residence card has no expire date so I assume is valid forever meaning I'm on those rights for the rest of my life, thus eliminating me of any Immigration control even if new rules will come in the future. The idea of something like that happening was what made me apply for Permanent Residence. Also I have a 2 year old boy who holds a British Passport, but that just cost me £90 to have it done

Yes there's the protection overseas if something happen to me in terms of Embassy reponsiveness, but nowadays with the war on terror we face is even more risky to travel with a British Passport or US than any other so really and don't take me wrong, I love this country and the people otherwise I wouldn't be here, but I cannot see direct advantages at the minute to apply for Citizenship. I might start think about that again as soon as my wife qualifies for such as well. Any other ideas? Thanks for the responses so far.

[thsths]

my husband was in a similar situation and was advised to become a british citizen so that should anything happen to him abroad the british embassy is more efficient than other embassys an he can easily get help.

I doubt it. From what I have heard, the British Embassy shows very little compassion for the fate of "ordinary people", whereas a number of other European countries look quite well after their citizens. Of course it all depends, especially on what the previous nationality is.

For the OP: you may be able to keep your original citizenship, which would avoid most of the issues that you mentioned. If not, you should probably wait until your wife has Permanent Residence status, which is independent of your status.

As for the advantages, travelling, visas and the embassy were already mentioned. Passing on British Citizenship to children being born abroad is another one, and there is the right to vote. That is pretty much it, though.

Tom

[sakura]

Even as a permanent resident, there are certain possibilities where you can be removed from the UK. British citizens cannot be removed from the UK, obviously because they have an inalienable and absolute right to be in their country. No one else has this other than a citizen. You could still be removed from the UK - for example if you commit a serious crime, they can have you deported back to Portugal.

You currently have an unrestricted right, but this can be still revoked in some circumstances. e.g. (a bad example, I might add), if a government wants to remove all non-British citizens from the UK, you would have to leave.

[Christophe]

Even as a permanent resident, there are certain possibilities where you can be removed from the UK. British citizens cannot be removed from the UK, obviously because they have an inalienable and absolute right to be in their country.

And those non-British Commonwealth citizens who have the right of abode in the UK (admittedly irrelevant in this case).

But as I said before, we simply cannot say what the future will hold, either for individuals or for immigration law and policy. Permanent residence can be revoked already in various circumstances, and things might change in the future. Therefore, if one sees one's future, or a substantial part of it, as being in the UK, it usually makes good sense to naturalise if one is able to do so.

[JJUSA]

Yes of course I understand that there's a difference in between a British Citizen and a Permanent Resident although I think they are minimal with the current policies. The example you gave of a criminal act which could made me deported to Portugal is something interesting to think about, however the probabilities of me commiting a crime are 1 in a billion plus if I get arrested for crime I go to jail and really jail is jail no big difference where unless I was from a third world country but as far as I'm concerned Portuguese criminals have TV and playstations inside for entretainment and they even do not get involved in community service also some are entitled to have electronic chains like here for those who are granted to stay at home instead of jail

But what about a scenario of war? What if the UK gets in a pretty nasty war or a world war 3 and male British Citizens must go with no choice of refusal, that could be a negative point in having an UK passport

Well of course we could find 1000's of reasons both positive and negative and think of possible scenarios which are unthinkable now but at the minute I still think to wait 2 more years (since my wife is here already for 3) until she gets the PR and then one of these days when we bored and have nothingelse to worry go down to the passport office and apply for naturalization Oh dear £750 but hey I will at least be able to fly to Portugal on a British Passport and witness the taxi driver trying to reap me off or perhaps making a nasty comment in portuguese towards me and I can tell him off

[bani]

It really is a personal decision. I also don't see that it would give you any big advantages at the moment. To wait until your wife has permanent residency in the UK makes more sense.

[JAJ]

My Permanet Residence card has no expire date so I assume is valid forever meaning I'm on those rights for the rest of my life, thus eliminating me of any Immigration control even if new rules will come in the future.

Your Permanent Residence expires after a continuous period of 2 years away from the U.K.

If immigration control ever returns, that period may be shorter.

[JAJ]

Yes of course I understand that there's a difference in between a British Citizen and a Permanent Resident although I think they are minimal with the current policies. The example you gave of a criminal act which could made me deported to Portugal is something interesting to think about, however the probabilities of me commiting a crime are 1 in a billion :lol: plus if I get arrested for crime I go to jail and really jail is jail no big difference where unless I was from a third world country but as far as I'm concerned Portuguese criminals have TV and playstations inside for entretainment and they even do not get involved in community service :lol: also some are entitled to have electronic chains like here for those who are granted to stay at home instead of jail 8)

Generally, deportation happens after prison sentence, not as an alternative to it. (although there are agreements with some countries allowing prisoners to be deported early to finish their sentences in their home country).

But what about a scenario of war? What if the UK gets in a pretty nasty war or a world war 3 and male British Citizens must go with no choice of refusal, that could be a negative point in having an UK passport

If it ever came to that (unlikely), I think you'll find that permanent residents would be conscripted on the same basis as citizens.

[JJUSA]

If it ever came to that (unlikely), I think you'll find that permanent residents would be conscripted on the same basis as citizens.

I don't think it would JAJ at least for EEA nationals since Permanent Residence is given automatically after 5 years residence. That would be force an EEA citizen to go to war on the basis of a Permanent Residency which he never asked for if that was the case (because some like me, had actually asked for a confirmation of PR). There's plenty of EEA nationals in the UK who live here for more than 5 years who are therefore Permanent Residents and they have not even a clue about it. My cousin is an example.. here for 8 years and only recently I told him he was a permanet resident already in which he replied.. " Am I? But I never called immigration to send me the forms!" Imagine if he would get a notice to present himself in the battlefield because he was a PR, I would pay to see his face

[Christophe]

If it ever came to that (unlikely), I think you'll find that permanent residents would be conscripted on the same basis as citizens.

I don't think it would JAJ at least for EEA nationals since Permanent Residence is given automatically after 5 years residence. That would be force an EEA citizen to go to war on the basis of a Permanent Residency which he never asked for if that was the case (because some like me, had actually asked for a confirmation of PR). There's plenty of EEA nationals in the UK who live here for more than 5 years who are therefore Permanent Residents and they have not even a clue about it. My cousin is an example.. here for 8 years and only recently I told him he was a permanet resident already in which he replied.. " Am I? But I never called immigration to send me the forms!" Imagine if he would get a notice to present himself in the battlefield because he was a PR, I would pay to see his face

Yes, but if it came to conscription (which is highly unlikely), it would be in a time of war, and extreme war at that; the government might well simply take the view that there were three choices: "be conscripted, leave the country, or face the consequences (whatever they might be)".

But we're talking about highly hypothetical circumstances here, and please God they remain so...

[JJUSA]

Ah ok I understand now better what was meant and yes let's pray to such a day never arrive although and moving perhaps a little bit out of the context, I believe a world war III will eventually happen and I reckon some of us will witness those times.... but lets not think about it and enjoy our little Britain with a pint of beer and a portion of fish and chips

[calai]

Right if you are looking for economic reasons, have a look of Inland Revenue's web and info about Residence, Ordinary Residence and Domicile
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.pdf

There are different treatment to insividuals in terms of income, investment, capital gains etc based on different status. Domicile in UK means you are normally subject to a wider scope of taxation.

If you have a permanent home in UK, you may deemed to be domiciled in UK. Previous (quite old) court cases have held that naturalize as British citizens is deemed to be taking UK as a choice of domicile.

[JAJ]

If you have a permanent home in UK, you may deemed to be domiciled in UK. Previous (quite old) court cases have held that naturalize as British citizens is deemed to be taking UK as a choice of domicile.

Maybe, but not necessarily so, especially for spouses of British citizens who do not need to declare any intention to remain.

In any case, it seems very likely that the preferential tax treatment enjoyed by "non-domiciled" persons will be abolished in the not too distant future, at least for those who enjoy the benefits of permanent resident status or British citizenship.

[macaroni]

It might be an idea to apply sooner, rather than later. From what I know, the HO has been increasing their fees consistently. For those who not EEA nationals, they still have to apply for visas to visit other European countries. It's an annoying process and a waste of half a dayor more.