Visiting the UK with 4EUFam card

[ca.funke]

Hi all,

Where the spouse of an EU-citizen is in posession of a 5-year residence-permit issued by any EU-country (in Ireland called 4EUFam), this permit allows (by law) entry into all EU-states, including the UK.

The UK (de facto) does not agree to this. They insist to only accept their own UK-issued residence cards. Family-members of EU-nationals with above cards issued elsewhere are required to separately apply for an "EEA-family-permit" for visits to the UK.

I lodged a complaint against the UK with the EU in this regard and received feedback from the commission:

The commission sent a letter to the UK, inviting them to comment on the situation. The response was as described above. (EEA-family-permit is obligatory, according to the UK's interpretation)

The commission does not agree to the UK's point of view, and will now proceed with further action against the UK in this regard.

Should I receive further feedback from the commission, I'll post it here...

[vinny]

See also Travel rights for non-EU nationals closely defined (The residence permit as an alternative to the visa?)

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

I recently noticed this (poorly written) description of a UK case about the EEA family permit.

http://www.gherson.com/articles/new-ait ... -nationals

[archigabe]

Some of the requirements from the British Embassy on EEA Visas for E.U Family Members for visiting the U.K even when possessing Stamp4E.U fam Card....I can't see how they can get away with this in light of E.U Directives.

The following supporting documents are required:

* ORGINAL DOCUMENTS MUST BE SUBMITTED WHEN REQUESTED. PHOTOCOPIES ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE. (Original documents will be returned by registered post once a decision has been made).
* printed copy of your online application form
* application fee (if applicable) and postage fee
* one recent passport photograph with a white background (not more than six months old)
* your current passport (containing a valid Irish re-entry visa, unless you arent returning to Ireland or you have a 4EUFam stamp on your Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB) Certificate of Registration card)
* your old passport (or a copy of it)
* a photocopy of your current GNIB Certificate of Registration Card
* your original marriage certificate
* your original birth certificate
* your original sponsors (EEA family member) passport (or a certified copy of all pages)
* your original bank statement showing at least three months of recent transactions
* an original letter from your employer stating how long you have been employed in Ireland or original payslips for the past three months
* if the EEA family member (e.g. your spouse) is resident in Ireland, evidence of their economic and employment circumstances (ie. original bank statement in their name showing at least three months of transactions and an original letter from their employer or original recent payslip) OR
* if the EEA family member (e.g. your spouse) is resident outside Ireland, evidence of their economic and employment circumstances (i.e. original bank statement in their name showing at least three months of transactions and an original letter from their employer and original recent payslip)
* evidence you are living with the EEA family member (e.g. utility bills / tenancy / mortgage documents in joint names)
* if you are travelling to the UK together, your original travel booking or other evidence you are travelling together
5. This is a summary of the cost of your Application, which you will need to pay:

Visa Fee:

EUR 0.00
Postage Fee:

EUR 0.00
Total:

EUR 0.00

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Where is this list from? It looks like a generic list for all visa applications...

[archigabe]

That was the list generated specifically for online EEA applications from
https://www.visa4uk.fco.gov.uk/

If you look at the list, one of the things they ask for are the Stamp4E.U fam card, marriage certificate and EEA family member's passport.

[nrubdarb]

Hi Folks!

I, too, am very interested in this topic!

As I have recently posted elsewhere, as far as I can see, the so-called Family Permit is nothing other than a 6-month entry visa in sheep's clothing. It is however, nothing like the visa description quoted in vinny's link on the Schengen situation:

"This visa should be granted free of charge and without undue formalities by the competent consulate authorities."

Unless the UK has redefined "undue formalities" to mean "fill out a 17-page document*, then travel 800 km** to get fingerprinted and biometrically scanned before we even consider your application".

Is there anything I can do to help - like writing a letter? I would really love to do something.

My situation: living in Germany (> 8 years), Brit, wife Russian. She has a Schengen visa (but could easily apply for a residence card i.e. Aufenthaltserlaubnis for Germany since she has been here 3 years, is working and intends to settle here with me).

Cheers,


Ed

* The VAF form for the Family Permit is 17 A4 pages long.
** We live 400 km from Düsseldorf, the nearest VAC where we have friends nearby (so at least we don't have to stay in a hotel). Even the nearest VAC is 300 km away (Berlin).

[asrpb]

Hi Folks!

I, too, am very interested in this topic!

As I have recently posted elsewhere, as far as I can see, the so-called Family Permit is nothing other than a 6-month entry visa in sheep's clothing. It is however, nothing like the visa description quoted in vinny's link on the Schengen situation:

"This visa should be granted free of charge and without undue formalities by the competent consulate authorities."

Unless the UK has redefined "undue formalities" to mean "fill out a 17-page document*, then travel 800 km** to get fingerprinted and biometrically scanned before we even consider your application".

Is there anything I can do to help - like writing a letter? I would really love to do something.

My situation: living in Germany (> 8 years), Brit, wife Russian. She has a Schengen visa (but could easily apply for a residence card i.e. Aufenthaltserlaubnis for Germany since she has been here 3 years, is working and intends to settle here with me).

Cheers,


Ed

* The VAF form for the Family Permit is 17 A4 pages long.
** We live 400 km from Düsseldorf, the nearest VAC where we have friends nearby (so at least we don't have to stay in a hotel). Even the nearest VAC is 300 km away (Berlin).

Hi Ed,

I'm kinda in same situation here.
I'm non-EU, married to EU, living & working permanently for over 7 years in IRELAND.
I don't have any intention to move or settle down in UK ..... BUT I just sometimes like to visit my friends on weekend or just transit through while flying home ..... before I would just pay and get 5 yrs tourist visa ...... But now unlike other EU countries (who provide visa free of cost to EU spouse & quiet quick enough) you have to go through such a lengthy process for UK EEA-Fam Permit.
I sent couple of e-mails to embassy here .... but their replies are useless. Its like someone doesnt even read the mail properly and just copy/paste all the info from www.ukvisas.gov.uk/ .

I think we should write to SOLVIT & Brussels .... What you think ??

If you can draft a letter, I wouldn't mind sending it either >>

Regards,
SS

[ca.funke]

Hi there,

I have lodged a complaint with the EU in this regard.

I received an answer from the commission, that this is known and under investigation. (They weren't very specific)

The original complaint is in German and posted underneath.

Should anyone so which, I will translate it into English.

If you want to complain as well, send an email to sg-plaintes@ec.europa.eu and (obviously) include your full name and address.

If you manage to get onto the plane to the UK, consider the following info, published by the homeoffice itself.

Before an Immigration Officer refuses admission to a non-EEA national under
Regulation 11(2) because s/he does not produce an EEA family permit, the IO must
give the non-EEA national reasonable opportunity to provide by other means proof
that he/she is a family member of an EEA national with a right to accompany that
national or join him/her in the UK.

Thus, taking the marriage-certificate might suffice?!

Regards, Christian

this is the complaint as filed:

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

in folgender Sache reiche ich hiermit eine Beschwerde gegen das Vereinigte Königreich von Großbritannien und Nordirland ein:

Regulierung 2004/38/EC sagt in Artikel 5 Absatz 2 folgendes:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
Von Familienangehörigen, die nicht die Staatsangehörigkeit
eines Mitgliedstaats besitzen, ist gemäß der Verordnung
(EG) Nr. 539/2001 oder gegebenenfalls den einzelstaatlichen
Rechtsvorschriften lediglich ein Einreisevisum zu fordern. Für
die Zwecke dieser Richtlinie entbindet der Besitz einer gültigen
Aufenthaltskarte gemäß Artikel 10 diese Familienangehörigen
von der Visumspflicht.
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###

Dadurch ergibt sich, wie die Kommissionswebseite präzisiert, dass Familienangehörige eines EU-Bürgers, die im Besitz einer gültigen Aufenthaltskarte aus irgendeinem Mitgliedstaat sind, in allen Mitgliedstaaten von der Visumpflicht befreit sind.

Dies sieht das UK anders:

2004/38/EC wird im UK durch SI 2006 No.1003 umgesetzt.

Unter "Part 2" - Artikel 11 Absatz 2 Punkt a und b heisst es hier:

### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###
(2) A person who is not an EEA national must be admitted to the United Kingdom if he is a family member of an EEA national, a family member who has retained the right of residence or a person with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 and produces on arrival—
(a) a valid passport; and
(b) an EEA family permit, a residence card or a permanent residence card
### ### ### ### ### ### ### ###

Zu Besuchsreisen wird hier von Familienangehörigen immer die genannte "EEA-family-permit"-Genehmigung verlangt.

Zwar wird die "residence-card" aufgezählt, in der Praxis wird aber nur eine britische "residence-card" anerkannt.

Es wäre schön hier eine Änderung herbeizuführen, so dass "residence cards" aller Mitgliedsstaaten explizit anerkannt werden.

In der aktuellen Situation entfaltet sich der Freiheitsgedanke der Regulierung nicht.


Gruß aus Dublin (...)

[vinny]

See also CO (EEA Regulations: family permit) Nigeria [2007] UKAIT 00070 and KA (EEA:family permit; admission) Sudan [2008] UKAIT 00052.

[Richard66]

I can tell you more: the case has already been brought before the ECJ and is awaiting judgement, as I have mentioned in another post.

I also lodged a complaint with the European Commission. There was no way the UK was making me apply for this scam visa.

[86ti]

I can tell you more: the case has already been brought before the ECJ and is awaiting judgement, as I have mentioned in another post.

I also lodged a complaint with the European Commission. There was no way the UK was making me apply for this scam visa.

I found case C-294/07, Commission v Luxembourg, failure to comply with the Directive here.
And here the judgement in favour of the Commission. Unfortunately, no details are given as to how Luxembourg failed to implement the Directive.

What I found interesting is that the application was Sep 8 2007 and the judgment Feb 23 2008.

[astartes]

Is there anything I can do to help - like writing a letter? I would really love to do something.

Do all of the following:

1. Report the problem through SOLVIT

2. Report the problem to the UK European Commissioner

3. Together with your wife, report the problem to the Russian Embassy in London

4. Bring the problem to the attention of the UK press. Ask your wife to do the same with the Russian press.

6. Inform all members of your professional and alumni networks, especially those working in Government, media, or academic positions, and those working in international organizations.

According to EU law, your wife has an absolute right to receive a residence permit without undue delay, and to work in any EU country in which you decide to live. She also has an absolute right to receive an entry visa from any non-Schengen EU state, free of cost and without undue delay.

This right is granted solely by virtue of the fact that she is your spouse, and cannot be made contingent on anything else whatsoever (in particular, her nationality and citizenship are completely irrelevant). Attempts by any EU member state to do otherwise are illegal under EU law, and should be brought immediately to the attention of the European Commission.

[ca.funke]

just to let the Forum know:

I did not forget this topic, and should I ever receive a reply from the commission, I will post it here.

However, so far there was no further reply... I asked for an update recently, however to this there was equally no reply yet.

[86ti]

just to let the Forum know:

I did not forget this topic, and should I ever receive a reply from the commission, I will post it here.

However, so far there was no further reply... I asked for an update recently, however to this there was equally no reply yet.

Is it possible that this is included in case C-122/08 (Commision vs. UK)? The Curia web page doesn't give any detail except that the UK failed to implement the Directive.

EDIT: Is this the case you are refering to Richard66?

[charles4u]

Hello all and Funke, I am married to a Romanian and she works in the UK and I wanted to join her there but I was refused the visa saying we met too soon to get married according to the consular officer and just bringing out things just for her reason to refuse like the phone call bills of the calls we made b4 meeting..


So am still staying in Romania but she is in the UK, we dont know what to do, we thinking of her cancelling her contract so we can go somewhere else maybe Netherlands, but the problem is that she signed to work for the company for 2 yrs..

Can anybody advice me on what I and my wife can do cus we just dont know what to do....UK and IRELAND is so much too proud and makes things worst even messing with the EU law that says a Family member with a FAMILY RESIDENCE CARD can travel with the spouse to any EU country if accompany or joining the spouse.

Pls I need a serious advise.

[ca.funke]

... mixed "edit" and "quote" (again) sorry

[archigabe]

The immigration rules section for EEA Nationals and their families seems to be deleted and or being edited.Maybe some change is underway?

[vinny]

They were replaced by The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006.

[archigabe]

Thanks,Vinny.

[schwdhry]

Hi everybody,

My wife finally got her 4EUFAM card yesterday. Now, I am aware after reading articles in this forum that she can now travel without any visa to almost all EU countries except UK. (Please correct me if I am wrong). I was wondering if there is a list available or a documentary proof available that one can print out and carry with ourselves while travelling to an EU country.

The last thing I wouldwant is my wife to be stopped when we go for an holiday to (say) France, because her 4EU FAM card is not sufficient and she needs a separate visa.

Any tips/suggestions would be great. I could not find any specific information at the French Embassy or Dutch Embassy's website. I just checked these 2 countries websites for information and details.

Thanks,
Sandeep

[archigabe]

have a read through these posts and here

[schwdhry]

have a read through these posts and here

Thanks for this!

[Richard66]

Sorry! Only seen today:

EDIT: Is this the case you are refering to Richard66?

Yes, case C-122/08 (Commision vs. UK) is the one I am talking about. Is there any news?

[86ti]

Sorry! Only seen today:

EDIT: Is this the case you are refering to Richard66?

Yes, case C-122/08 (Commision vs. UK) is the one I am talking about. Is there any news?

Just learned that the case was obviously withdrawn from the ECJ's register on the 17th of December 2008. Source: http://www.ukresident.com/forums/index. ... t&p=225286
(sorry, registration required).