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Hi Liberal Immigrant,Liberal Immigrant wrote:hey guys,
need a bit of guidance for my mum:
She is Pakistani and living in UK as she has an EEA Residence Card issued to her by UK Home Office bcoz she is "family member" of her Irish son i.e. (who is exercising treaty rights).
the question is: does she need a tourist visa to visit her Irish daughter (my sister) who lives in Ireland? or is her EEA Residence Card issued by UK good enuff?
i ve already had a look at the Irish websites and they are so vague and inconclusive on this point.
thanks
The same is described more clearly on the commissions' website:Article 5
Right of entry
(...)
2. Family members who are not nationals of a Member State
shall only be required to have an entry visa in accordance with
Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or, where appropriate, with
national law. For the purposes of this Directive, possession of
the valid residence card referred to in Article 10 shall exempt
such family members from the visa requirement.
(...)
Between Ireland and the UK "enforcing" this law is no problem - just travel, as there are no border-checkpoints.Possession of the valid residence card, referred to in the relevant fact sheet, issued by any Member State, exempts you from the visa obligation not only in the Member State which issued the residence card, but in all Member States.
Hi dsab85,dsab85 wrote:She will need an Irish Visa, which will take about 3 weeks to be processed by the Irish Embassy in the UK.
I am living in Northern Ireland (around 3 km from the border to the Republic of Ireland) and even my legally residing non EEA wife needs a visa to go to the republic. Bit of a joke, IMO.
Furthermore the Irish Embassy in the UK is a pain in the butt to deal with.
Meaning: If you are a UK-citizen and live in the UK, you are dealt with under UK-law (only). You will, paradoxically, continue to need a visa to visit the Republic of Ireland with your wife.Article 3
Beneficiaries
1. This Directive shall apply to all Union citizens who move
to or reside in a Member State other than that of which they
are a national, and to their family members as defined in point
2 of Article 2 who accompany or join them.
Very bad advice IMO. These days there are regularly Irish Immigration checks between Northern Ireland and Ireland, especially when travelling on a bus or the train.Between Ireland and the UK "enforcing" this law is no problem - just travel, as there are no border-checkpoints.
If you travel to anywhere else in Europe, it's better to have a copy of the law with you, as some border-guards are unaware of these laws. However, in the end and after some (polite) arguing I never heard of people who were ultimately turned back.
They can check all day long - just have a copy of 2004/38/EC with you, and have them explain why they do not want to adhere to binding law.dsab85 wrote:Very bad advice IMO. These days there are regularly Irish Immigration checks between Northern Ireland and Ireland, especially when travelling on a bus or the train.Between Ireland and the UK "enforcing" this law is no problem - just travel, as there are no border-checkpoints.
If you travel to anywhere else in Europe, it's better to have a copy of the law with you, as some border-guards are unaware of these laws. However, in the end and after some (polite) arguing I never heard of people who were ultimately turned back.
Even when you arrive on flight from the UK you have to go though immigration. It is not like in the UK where there is no check at all if you come from Ireland.
I personally know of two cases in Dublin where people have been turned back at Dublin Airport because they had a EU issued residence card, but no valid Irish Visa.
Irish immigration doesn't give a damn about the EU regulation at the moment, and we all know it. And I def. wouldn't take the risk.
Oops - always good to learn something.dsab85 wrote:I came back from London to Dublin on Sunday, and I def. had to go through Passport Control.
I think what dsab85 is trying to say is that, while in theory one shouldn't need a visa, the Irish aren't the most cooperative bunch when it comes to implementing the directive correctly. You could show up with a copy of it, argue til you're blue in the face, but there still is a real chance you aren't going to be let in, even though it wouldn't be right of them to do so. I think they've already shown with their whole handling of the EU1 process that they don't care how its supposed to be done, they are going to do things their way. So, if someone is just looking for a nice wee vacation, it's best to just get the visa and not take the risk of wasted time/money.Could you substantiate a little bit why the above is "Very bad advice" (IYO), as even a check does not change that the above laws apply.
If you want to be sure, of course a visa is better.yankeegirl wrote:I think what dsab85 is trying to say is that, while in theory one shouldn't need a visa, the Irish aren't the most cooperative bunch when it comes to implementing the directive correctly. You could show up with a copy of it, argue til you're blue in the face, but there still is a real chance you aren't going to be let in, even though it wouldn't be right of them to do so. I think they've already shown with their whole handling of the EU1 process that they don't care how its supposed to be done, they are going to do things their way. So, if someone is just looking for a nice wee vacation, it's best to just get the visa and not take the risk of wasted time/money.Could you substantiate a little bit why the above is "Very bad advice" (IYO), as even a check does not change that the above laws apply.
LOL. Lately I've been the opposite. I have heard, as others have mentioned, of random passport checks going between NI and ROI, yet it never fails when I head down to Dublin to visit the in-laws, I always forget my passport. In 4 years, we've never been checked once, although once in Monaghan some guy came on to make sure everyone had a bus ticket. But, I have a friend in Belfast who commutes fairly often by train to Dublin and she's been checked a couple of times. My BIL lives in England with his fiancee, and I know when they fly into Dublin, they almost always go through immigration, which they find a bit annoying.Actually I am hoping to be checked some time, just to see what happens.
I totally agree that peace-of-mind is worth a lot.Christophe wrote:Personally, whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it would seem to me that it might be easier and more conducive to peace of mind for the OP's mother to get a visa. As she is living in the UK and is going on what sounds like a routine family visit, there is no time pressure, presumably.
ca.funke, it is great that you are well-versed in this area of EU law or regulation and are prepared to argue it (if necessary) with the Irish immigration authorities on behalf of your wife. All credit to you. However, the OP's mother probably isn't so well-versed, and she might be travelling alone, and she probably just wants to have a pleasant visit to her daughter in Ireland rather than worrying about having to have an argument with an immigration officer at the start and/or end of her visit there. If it turns out that her visa is never checked, she really hasn't lost much in the overall scheme of life, and she will have had peace of mind during her journey.
Just a thought.