Visa Refused legal jargon

yaelhitch · Post by **yaelhitch** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:28 am

After my husbands visa was refused i have been told that i can apply for a new application under the old rules (the new rules stating that you cannot re-apply for 12 months) I have carefully read through and reserached the ECO refsuel letter so i can understand exactly why he was refused in legal terns. However i am a bit confused when it says"I have refused your application on sup-paragrapgh 281 (breach of immigration law - Overstaying) "However if you have a previous application and immigration history this may have been considered"
Does this mean that when we subit a new application with new evidence we have a better chance as we can never change the fact he overstayed.

I know its a long question sorry!

chibage · Post by **chibage** » Sun May 25, 2008 12:16 pm

yaelhitch, im a bit confused. What date did your husband apply?? Were the new rules in place ?3207b for the bans? Did the refusal actually say he was banned for 12months? You mention the refusal said I have refused your application on sup-paragrapgh 281 (breach of immigration law - Overstaying) I thought for a refusal with a ban it was 3207b?? Are you able to put more info from the refusal letter as its confusing?

yaelhitch · Post by **yaelhitch** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:02 pm

He applied before the 1st of April which is when the news laws came into place stsating that of you were refused you cannot re-aply for 1 year. However his decsion was given on the 14th April so we were worried that we would have to abide by the new laws. Our lawyer has now told us that qe do not have to wait to re-apply and can subit a new application whenever.
The actual words in the refusal letter said I have assesed you application under paragrpagh 320 (7B) which states that where the application has previously breached the U.K's immigration lawas by overstaying.
However my husband did leave voluntry and not at the expencese of the state.
I believe that the ECO did not take into account much of our other evidence just becasue he overstayed. So what will happen when we re-apply will they still take overstaying into account?
And does it help to go to the country and be seen with my husband so we can give the file into toegther or is that just a waste of money

chibage · Post by **chibage** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:15 pm

Personally i dont think you have to go back to submit the application together. I also dont think they will use overstaying against him in the new application due to the concession regarding family members. Just make sure all your other evidence is in order (Finances). Good luck and im sure your lawyer will assist you to put in a strong application!

Post by **vinny** » Sun May 25, 2008 2:26 pm

chibage wrote:I also dont think they will use overstaying against him in the new application due to the concession regarding family members.

For details, see also New guidance on rule 320(7B) refusals published and 26.17 Refusal where the applicant has previously breached the UK's immigration laws [Updated 15 May 2008].

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:35 pm

chibage wrote:Personally i dont think you have to go back to submit the application together. I also dont think they will use overstaying against him in the new application due to the concession regarding family members. Just make sure all your other evidence is in order (Finances). Good luck and im sure your lawyer will assist you to put in a strong application!

Hold up chibage. Yaelitch, on what date exactly did your husband make his application? Was it before the 17th March - which is when the concession began?

If he did apply after 17 March and was still refused automatically on the grounds of overstaying this should make things very interesting indeed...

chibage · Post by **chibage** » Fri May 30, 2008 3:47 pm

OMG jei2 you are so right! This is very strange. He applied before 1st April. I dont understand.

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Fri May 30, 2008 4:14 pm

Well chibage, while waiting for yaelitch to get back with the exact date of the application, I'd just like to say that this **?!**x* rule is getting on my +$"&*** nerves !

I predict a riot!

Twin · Post by **Twin** » Fri May 30, 2008 6:42 pm

perhaps he left the UK before the first concession was announced hence the refusal.

If he left the UK before the 15th of March and decision made after the 1st of April, there was every likelihood that the application would have been rejected under paragraph 320.
However, despite having left before the 15th of March, if the decision was reached before the 1st of April, then he wouldn't have been caught with a ban.

yaelhitch · Post by **yaelhitch** » Fri May 30, 2008 9:38 pm

hi guys sorry been so late
he applied on the 17th march but was given the decsion on 8th april so it was all messed up. anyway we are applying again and stating that they cannot decline him on the fact he overstayed alone due to the new consession. but we have wasted time and money doing it the first tine we have a date for the appel which is DECEMBER and i refuse to wait that long in case he does not win the appeal. we have to apply before the 1s of october in order to keep the consession i place so thanks for all your help i will let you know how we get on
x

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Sat May 31, 2008 5:41 pm

Yaelitch, if your husband left the UK before the 17 March 2008 then I'm afraid he falls to be refused under 320 7(b). Be aware that the refusal is automatic.

What's worse, although they cannot refuse to take the application ie your hard earned cash, they must refuse it. Hope you get the difference.

If it goes to appeal its very likely that you would be refused anyway, so you've nothing to lose by trying again. Well except Â£515 quid. Either that or sit it out for 12 months.

Fingers crossed that in the madness and confusion the second application is let through. Good luck!

sally12345 · Post by **sally12345** » Sat May 31, 2008 5:58 pm

yaelhitch wrote:hi guys sorry been so late
he applied on the 17th march but was given the decsion on 8th april so it was all messed up. anyway we are applying again and stating that they cannot decline him on the fact he overstayed alone due to the new consession. but we have wasted time and money doing it the first tine we have a date for the appel which is DECEMBER and i refuse to wait that long in case he does not win the appeal. we have to apply before the 1s of october in order to keep the consession i place so thanks for all your help i will let you know how we get on
x

Hiya sorry to hear of your problems I am in the same boat as you however, my partner is still here and we are making the arrangements for him to go back! you state that you have to apply before 01 Oct 08...

Does that mean whilst in Jamaica we have to make sure we apply before 01 Oct I was under the impression that you just had to exit the UK.. As I plan to get married in Sept and most of my documents wont be ready untill Oct so now I am worried please someone help?????? Thanks Twin are you there even?????

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Sat May 31, 2008 6:40 pm

Seems I jumped the gun on my post above.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=170970

A definition of significantly contrived and a chance to submit a new application for those refused before the concession. But why do they have to hide everything away? Damn their eyes!

yaelhitch · Post by **yaelhitch** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:09 am

in order for him not be refused just becasue he overtsayed you have to apply before october 08 as thats when the consession ends. We applied just before the new consession in march so we got the mandatory refusal because he overstayed. With this new consession in place they are not allowed to reufse him just becasue he overstayed. We are going to look at the other reasons she reufsed us i.e. my finances and make sure this time we put together a really solid file adressing everything ther ECO said in the refusal letter.
We HAVE to win this time as we have hardly anymore to keep re-applying for new acses etc. I just hope that by the middle of september our case file will be strong enough.
The best advice i can give is get a laywer that way you cannot go wrong. If you cannot afford one try getting legal aid. Thery will help you with you documents and give a covering letter.x

sally12345 · Post by **sally12345** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:26 am

yaelhitch wrote:in order for him not be refused just becasue he overtsayed you have to apply before october 08 as thats when the consession ends. We applied just before the new consession in march so we got the mandatory refusal because he overstayed. With this new consession in place they are not allowed to reufse him just becasue he overstayed. We are going to look at the other reasons she reufsed us i.e. my finances and make sure this time we put together a really solid file adressing everything ther ECO said in the refusal letter.
We HAVE to win this time as we have hardly anymore to keep re-applying for new acses etc. I just hope that by the middle of september our case file will be strong enough.
The best advice i can give is get a laywer that way you cannot go wrong. If you cannot afford one try getting legal aid. Thery will help you with you documents and give a covering letter.x

Hi Thanks for getting back to me.... I do have a lawyer and most of my documents are in tact but I did not discuss this with my lawyer as many people have said that you only need to exit the Uk! before OCT 01 However I am going to talk with my lawyer Monday and see what he says
as I dont really want to fall into the 1 year ban thanks

farneybunny · Post by **farneybunny** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:05 pm

Do we have to leave and make the application before 1st october or you have to leave before oct and can make the application anytime after that?

How confusing can the law be?

carlabeach · Post by **carlabeach** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:47 am

i am confuse in something uswell if you leave voluntary uk in february 2008 and applied for spouse visa like now.
what gonna happen? a)refused this moment. b) ban for a year that means applied in february 2009. c) or is under new rules and you can applied until october?

jei2 · Post by **jei2** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:34 am

Hi Thanks for getting back to me.... I do have a lawyer and most of my documents are in tact but I did not discuss this with my lawyer as many people have said that you only need to exit the Uk! before OCT 01 However I am going to talk with my lawyer Monday and see what he says
as I dont really want to fall into the 1 year ban thanks

sally12345, I'm glad you've got the sense to see your lawyer because "many people" have got it wrong. They will still need to avoid the significantly contrived clause of the concession as well as meeting the relevant immigration rules for their application.

Do we have to leave and make the application before 1st october or you have to leave before oct and can make the application anytime after that?

Farneybunny, as long as you have left the country before 1st October 2008 you can make your application after that - Liam Byrne hasn't specified any time frame for this eg up to 6 months after, but I'm sure he will eventually.

i am confuse in something uswell if you leave voluntary uk in february 2008 and applied for spouse visa like now.
what gonna happen? a)refused this moment. b) ban for a year that means applied in february 2009. c) or is under new rules and you can applied until october?

carlabeach,

My understanding is that if you have left the UK before the concession was announced 17 March 2008 you will fall under the year ban. However applications were that have been refused after 1 April 2008 solely on the 320 7(b) rule must be overturned if a reconsideration is requested by the applicant and entry clearance granted. Needless to say the visa section is not advertising this to those failed applicants who would qualify.

My advice to anyone thinking of going back is to make sure that they have absolutely everything required for the re-entry application and to ensure that they meet both parts of the concession.

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Visa Refused legal jargon

Visa Refused legal jargon