Wife's HSMP Dependent Visa rejected twice

[Prashjos]

Hi Friends,

I am on a HSMP Visa in UK since March 1st week. My wife applied for a dependent visa at India but got rejected twice.
First Application:
The reason quoted was that my name didn’t appear on the Tenancy Agreement and there was no property inspection report to suffice that there is sufficient place for me and my wife. I am staying in a 2 bedroom flat with a friend and his wife. They say as per www.findaproperty.com , a rental of £850 is for 1 bedroom flat and not 2 bedroom.

Second application:
I moved to a 3 bedroom house with another friend of mine who gave a Letter stating that me and my wife will occupy one bedroom exclusively. The tenancy agreement (with rent of 1250£) is on my friend and his wife's name. I also provided a council tax bill which was on his name as supporting.
But this time also it was rejected saying that there was no property inspection report it is just that my friend is claiming that its a 3 bedroom house. Also, as per the agreement clause that my friend "cannot sublet, lease the premise to others" was mentioned.

I don’t know what to do.. Should I get a Tenancy Agreement on my name? Is Property Inspection report a must now?


Also, I have following queries:
1. For Funds, I am just showing the bank statements (having funds around 3000£). Is this sufficient?
2. I don’t have salary slips? Is this a must or bank statement will do?
3. I want to apply for her dependent visa again before 29th June (Closure of transition phase from HSMP to Tier1)? What are my chances...


I would be grateful to everybody if you can help me out.

Thanks
Prashjos

[gotcha]

Hi Friends,

I am on a HSMP Visa in UK since March 1st week. My wife applied for a dependent visa at India but got rejected twice.
First Application:
The reason quoted was that my name didn’t appear on the Tenancy Agreement and there was no property inspection report to suffice that there is sufficient place for me and my wife. I am staying in a 2 bedroom flat with a friend and his wife. They say as per www.findaproperty.com , a rental of £850 is for 1 bedroom flat and not 2 bedroom.

Second application:
I moved to a 3 bedroom house with another friend of mine who gave a Letter stating that me and my wife will occupy one bedroom exclusively. The tenancy agreement (with rent of 1250£) is on my friend and his wife's name. I also provided a council tax bill which was on his name as supporting.
But this time also it was rejected saying that there was no property inspection report it is just that my friend is claiming that its a 3 bedroom house. Also, as per the agreement clause that my friend "cannot sublet, lease the premise to others" was mentioned.

I don’t know what to do.. Should I get a Tenancy Agreement on my name? Is Property Inspection report a must now?


Also, I have following queries:
1. For Funds, I am just showing the bank statements (having funds around 3000£). Is this sufficient?
2. I don’t have salary slips? Is this a must or bank statement will do?
3. I want to apply for her dependent visa again before 29th June (Closure of transition phase from HSMP to Tier1)? What are my chances...


I would be grateful to everybody if you can help me out.

Thanks
Prashjos

Do you have job ?
If yes why you are not waiting till first salary, and provide salary slips. In my case, my tenacy agreement was on my name only.
I'm not sure, if for first reject they did mentioned about propery inspection report, then why you are not providing one ?

[ash20]

Prashjos,
you need do the following
1) get the tenancy agreement on your name
2) Get a letter from property agent (on letter head) that the property you are renting is sufficient for 2 people to live (to whomsoever concern)
3) if you have paid any rent or advance .. keep the reciept or bank statement reflecting that amount with application
4) Bank statement of last 6 months showing amount ( as mentioned in rules)
5) marriage certificate ( you must have already given to them)

If on grounds of accomadation it is rejected then poin 1 and 2 will do. hope this helps. Good luck

Cheers
Ash

[Prashjos]

Hi Ash and Gotcha,

Thanks a lot for your reply. One more clarification... Do these guys do any check with the estate agent on agreement?
Also, On a 1 bedroom flat how many people can accomodate? Because The Tenacy agreement will be on my name and a friend of mine. So my wife wil the 3rd person joining us for accomodation.. Will that be a problem..

Pls help.

Thanks again.
Prashjos

[geriatrix]

Yes. It will be a problem as the ECO must be satisfied as to the availability and adequacy of accommodation.
Read Section 9.12 regarding overcrowding as explained on the UKVisas official website.

Have a good look at sections 9.6 to 9.11 on the same webpage to understand requirements regarding maintenance and accommodation for spouses - specially so if you are intending to accommodate your spouse in a house that is not rented exclusively by you.

regards

Hi Ash and Gotcha,

Thanks a lot for your reply. One more clarification... Do these guys do any check with the estate agent on agreement?
Also, On a 1 bedroom flat how many people can accomodate? Because The Tenacy agreement will be on my name and a friend of mine. So my wife wil the 3rd person joining us for accomodation.. Will that be a problem..

Pls help.

Thanks again.
Prashjos

[gotcha]

Hi Ash and Gotcha,

Thanks a lot for your reply. One more clarification... Do these guys do any check with the estate agent on agreement?
Also, On a 1 bedroom flat how many people can accomodate? Because The Tenacy agreement will be on my name and a friend of mine. So my wife wil the 3rd person joining us for accomodation.. Will that be a problem..

Pls help.

Thanks again.
Prashjos

I dont know, why you are missing point, that your application is rejected due to fact that, you are failed to prove that there is not enough space to accomodate your wife.

refer this link to know legal definitions of overcrowding.
http://www.derby.gov.uk/Housing/Housing ... owding.htm

[Prashjos]

Thanks for the info. I got the point regarding overcrowding. I have one query. The Tenancy ageements I have seen in UK never mentions the no. of rooms in a flat/house. On what basis does the ECO determines that whether there is enough space for for 3 people.

I am asking this question since the Tenancy Agreement which I will be making will be on mine and my friend's name (2 people) on a 1 Bedroom Flat (though it contains 1 bedroom, 1 living room, Spam and bathroom).

Then will it be a problem again if i want to show my wife also joining at this flat?

Pls help..

Thanks,
Prashjos

[gotcha]

Thanks for the info. I got the point regarding overcrowding. I have one query. The Tenancy ageements I have seen in UK never mentions the no. of rooms in a flat/house. On what basis does the ECO determines that whether there is enough space for for 3 people.

I am asking this question since the Tenancy Agreement which I will be making will be on mine and my friend's name (2 people) on a 1 Bedroom Flat (though it contains 1 bedroom, 1 living room, Spam and bathroom).

Then will it be a problem again if i want to show my wife also joining at this flat?

Pls help..

Thanks,
Prashjos

It clearly mentioned in the link provided already, which you haven't read.
Technically , she could join you there. But, I'm not understanding , why you are leaving chance to ECO, by providing tenacy agreement with friend.

Again, you have not answered the question asked in first post. Do you have any job ? If yes, why you are rushing , before first salary ?

[Prashjos]

Hi Gotcha,

Got ur point. But my problem is that I cannot pay the rent of £850 all by myself hence sharing with my friend. Thats why the tenancy agreement will be on both our names..

Secondly, yes i do have a job and got 3 salaries to my bank account, since i am working from March'08. I have an income of £1400 coming to my account every month. This is appearing on my bank statement also. But due to some reason, my company has not given me salary slips. Will bank statement suffice or sal slip is important? Also, if i produce sal slip, i will have to get into NI /tax etc. which will reduce my take home income .

Pls help. I am in a big mess...

Regards,
Prashjos

[gotcha]

Hi Gotcha,

Got ur point. But my problem is that I cannot pay the rent of £850 all by myself hence sharing with my friend. Thats why the tenancy agreement will be on both our names..

Agree.

Secondly, yes i do have a job and got 3 salaries to my bank account, since i am working from March'08. I have an income of £1400 coming to my account every month. This is appearing on my bank statement also. But due to some reason, my company has not given me salary slips. Will bank statement suffice or sal slip is important? Also, if i produce sal slip, i will have to get into NI /tax etc. which will reduce my take home income .

Pls help. I am in a big mess...

This sounds very dodgy.

There are couple things, usually considered for dependent visa,
1. Is applicant really dependent on main applicant. (ie proof that she is your wife).
2. Is sponsor capable of supporting dependent, without accessing public funds.

I'm not sure, not providing salary slips will be seen positively.

Remember, salary slips are very very important evidence.
And I'm not going to advice you about tax related things, because, nobody is here to encourage it.

I advice you to get hold of salary slip, contract from employer , if you want to process her application. Nobody will buy argument, that "for some reason" employer has not given salary slips. ie ofcourse, if you are going to show ECO that you has employment.

[push]

Prasjosh,

Please refer to sushdmehta's mail and the link provided. Look at the following:

"9.8 - Assessing adequate accommodation for couples
You should be satisfied that the accommodation for a couple (or for fiancé(es)/proposed civil partners after they are married) complies with the following requirements:

it is (or will be) owned or legally occupied for the exclusive use of the couple (see definition in section below); and it is capable of accommodating the couple, and any children, without overcrowding as defined in the Housing Act 1985 (see section below on overcrowding). Depending on the circumstances of the case, there may be other relevant factors; for example, you should be satisfied that housing the couple in rented accommodation will not be in breach of any tenancy agreement as regards sub-letting (see below).

9.9 - Determining whether the couple legally own or exclusively occupy the accommodation
You should consider the basis of the availability and security of tenure of the accommodation. Factors to be taken into account will include:
the ownership of the property and/or the duration of a lease; how much security the terms of any lease gives and whether it could be terminated at short notice; whether any lease enables the tenant to sublet to the couple or take them in as lodgers. If the accommodation is not owned by the couple (or one of them), the Rules require that there be adequate accommodation which is for their exclusive use. This need not be as elaborate as a self-contained flat. It is acceptable for a couple to live in an existing household, e.g. that of a parent, uncle, aunt, sibling or friend, as long as they have at least a bedroom for their exclusive use.
If the couple have children with them there must be additional adequate accommodation for them (section below on overcrowding gives a formula for maximum numbers of persons allowed).
"

So what seems to be causing the problem in your case is - You are trying to show that you will be sharing the accomodation with your friend. And possibly, the tenancy agreement does have a restrictive clause re no of persons who could stay in the flat.

(1) If you get the Tenancy agreement redrafted so that there is a clause which permits the tenants to allow their partners to stay with them
My suggestion to you is - get the tenancy agreement in your name, it will help

(2) Get a letter from the other tenant that he would permit you and your partner to use a bedroom exclusively.

This seems to be the next best thing to having the tenancy agreement in your own name (which you say you cant manage).

Hope that helps.

regards,

push_hsmp

[Prashjos]

Push_hsmp - Thanks a lot for your inputs. It really helped

Gotcha.. I got ur point. Will push my employer for the salary slips. Will do whatever to get that

Just one more query, does the rent payout should appear in my bank statement? I am asking this because my friend will pe paying the rent intially on my behalf since i dont want t reduce the bank balance till the time my wife's visa is cleared.
Pls help.

[kck9]

Does anyone a website where they can get property inspection report for a particular address

[Ankur9M]

Hi all,

I have a query regarding this thread. It would be great if someone can help me out with this.
Is this accomodation requirement specific to HSMP visa or does it apply to Tier 1 visa as well?
I have gone through documents and links for Tier 1 dependant visa but did not find any place where a requirement for providing accomodation proof was mentioned.
My wife is going to apply for Tier 1 dependant visa soon but I have not sent her my rental agreement. (I am currently in UK on Tier1 and have a 1 bedroom flat which is solely occupied by me)

Regards
Ankur

[jagacharaja]

My wife is going to apply for Tier 1 dependant visa soon but I have not sent her my rental agreement. (I am currently in UK on Tier1 and have a 1 bedroom flat which is solely occupied by me)

Are you willing to take the risk of wasting the EC application money just 'caus it may not be in the officially mentioned anywhere? I would personally err on the extra-cautious side if it was my money and/or life.

[geriatrix]

The following is purely my understanding and others might have different opinion(s) or a competely different factual experience.

Irrepsective of whether you are on HSMP or Tier 1, as long as the main applicant is in UK and sponsoring an EC application for a dependent, the main applicant must fulfil the qualifying criteria regarding maintenance and accommodation as defined here.

If the main applicant has not entered UK as yet under HSMP / Tier 1 status and is sponsoring EC application for dependents while he is present in his/her home country then, I believe, it is sufficient enough to meet the maintenance fund requirement criteria (as defined in Tier 1 guidance).

Suggest you check with the visa application center in your country.

regards

Hi all,

I have a query regarding this thread. It would be great if someone can help me out with this.
Is this accomodation requirement specific to HSMP visa or does it apply to Tier 1 visa as well?
I have gone through documents and links for Tier 1 dependant visa but did not find any place where a requirement for providing accomodation proof was mentioned.
My wife is going to apply for Tier 1 dependant visa soon but I have not sent her my rental agreement. (I am currently in UK on Tier1 and have a 1 bedroom flat which is solely occupied by me)

Regards
Ankur

[Ankur9M]

jagacharaja, sushd

Thanks a lot for your response.
The reason I asked for the same is because my wife has an appointment with VFS early next week and all plans for her travel to Delhi and back have been confirmed. (train tickets etc booked)
I had sent the documentation based on what was mentioned in the dependant notes. (There was no mention of lease agreement)

Now, even if I send the agreement now through courier etc., she won't get it before her appointment.

I was thinking whether I should
1) Get her appointment rescheduled along with travel plans to Delhi?
2) Go ahead with the current set of documents?

Regards
Ankur

[Ankur9M]

jagacharaja, sushd,

I meant do you suggest rescheduling it based on the changes required.

Regards
Ankur

[Prashjos]

Hi Ankur,

If you are not giving the rental agreement, wht is ur proof of accomodating her in UK with you? What other document mentions that she will have a place to stay. My persona opinion (after 2 rejections for my wife's EC) is that you shud provide an accomodation proof..

However, I would suggest the senior members to give better inputs..

Prashjos

[Ankur9M]

Prashjos,

Ideally I would have done that.
but now the question is that since this (lease agreement) was not mentioned as a requirement for Tier 1 dependant, should I go ahead and submit my application (I.e. risk Rs 51K)

Or reschedule the appointment which (Based on re-booking travel etc) would mean my wife's dependant would get delayed by 2-3 weeks or more.

Based on your experience I think I should reschedule it and apply with lease agreement.

Also the lease agreement is solely in in my name for a 1Bedroom flat. But I did not check if the agreement allows me to bring my wife to stay with me. Or should I assume that since it a 1 bedroom flat, it would be allowed. (On the links which sushd sent, it says that 1 bedroom is sufficient for a married couple) Any comments on this?

Regards
Ankur

[Prashjos]

Hi Ankur,

Yes, you are right that on the links which sushd sent, it says that 1 bedroom is sufficient for a married couple.
The lease agreement is solely in in you name for a 1Bedroom flat and there is no problem in bringing your wife to stay with you. Since it a 1 bedroom flat, it would be allowed.
But my question is that is she carrying that Tenancy Agreement or not..

Prashjos

[push]

Prashjos,

Or reschedule the appointment which (Based on re-booking travel etc) would mean my wife's dependant would get delayed by 2-3 weeks or more.

Also the lease agreement is solely in in my name for a 1Bedroom flat. But I did not check if the agreement allows me to bring my wife to stay with me. Or should I assume that since it a 1 bedroom flat, it would be allowed. (On the links which sushd sent, it says that 1 bedroom is sufficient for a married couple) Any comments on this?

Regards
Ankur

I would suggest that you wait for some time and supply documents that clearly state that you have adequate accomodation for your wife. A tenancy agreement in your name should be sufficient, whether or not it says that you are allowed to bring your wife to stay with you. You might also want to mention in your cover letter that you have adequate staying arrangements for your spouse (you may even go to the extent of saying that you have adequate arrangements for her stay in line with .... clause of ..... rule/policy of .... of uk).


all the very best !!

kind regards,

push_hsmp

[Ankur9M]

push_hsmp,
I think it may be worthwhile including clause of ..... rule/policy etc for accomodation. Thanks for suggesting this.

jagacharaja, sushd, Prashjos, push_hsmp,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions. I will reschedule it and apply again with tenancy agreement.

Regards
Ankur

[push]

All the very best for your application.

regards,

push_hsmp

[Prashjos]

Hi Guys,

My last query still remains unanswered. Pls help.

Ddoes the rent payout should appear in my bank statement? I am asking this because my friend will pe paying the rent intially on my behalf since i dont want t reduce the bank balance till the time my wife's visa is cleared.
Pls help.

Prashjos