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Section 9.1 EEA (PR) application form.

Use this section for any queries concerning the EU Settlement Scheme, for applicants holding pre-settled and settled status.

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Lucas Schwartz
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United Kingdom

Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:10 am

The particulars of the case:

Immigration history of my wife:

My non-EEA wife have entered the UK on 06.05.1997 as a child on a diplomatic visa. The visa expired in 2003.

From 2003 to 2011 she did not have a valid legal status to be in the UK and overstayed her visa.
I am a Hungarian EEA citizen and have entered into a relationship with her in the year 2005 and have had our first child in 2008.

On the 14.04.2011 she was granted Limited leave to remain on compassionate grounds for three years until 14.04.2014.

In 2014 before her visa would have expired we applied and was granted a Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National which is now due to expire on 17.03.2019.

Work history of my wife:

She has been working and employed by the same company since the year 2000 and was paying National Insurance Contributions and Income tax on her earnings which is above £18600/annum.

My own immigration history:

I entered the UK on the 05.09.2005 as a Hungarian Citizen (EU member state). I met my wife in 2005 and married her in November 2010.

I applied for and was granted permanent residence on the 15.12.2011. Then applied, and granted British Citizenship on the 24.04.2012. Since then I have been a dual national.

My own work history:

Having been working in a full time employment from July 2005 to November 2017 I was exercising my treaty rights as an EU citizen.

In 2017 I have left my employment to look after our children a 10 years old girl and an 8 years old boy. Since then we only had my wife’s income and our savings to support us but we have at no point relied on benefits or accessed public funds in any shape or form.

Questions:

Since she have been on the Residence Card of a Family Member of an EEA National during the past five years we would like to apply for Permanent Residence for her as we intended to continue to live together in the UK with our children.

As we understand one of the criteria to apply for PR for her under EU law is that I have to prove that I have been continually exercising my treaty rights in other words I have been a “qualified person” during the past five years.

As per the regulations I can prove being “qualified” on the following grounds: job seeker, worker, self-employed person, self-sufficient person, student.

In my particular case I can prove being qualified and that I was exercising my treaty rights as a worker in a full time employment from 2005 to 2017. However I would have to prove that I was “self-sufficient from 2017 to 2019 (up to now) to cover the five year period as required.
This is the point where I am uncertain if we would be eligible to apply.

This document (link included below) states the following:
A self-sufficient person is an EEA national who is exercising their free movement rights in the UK. They must be able to provide proof that they have:
• enough money to cover their own and any family member’s living expenses without
becoming a burden on the social assistance system in the UK
• comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) in the UK for themselves and any family members

They could also qualify as self-sufficient based on the income of their family member if this money is available to them. For example, their non-EEA spouse may have permission to work in the UK under the Immigration Rules and be providing financial support to the EEA national from their income alone. This would be considered acceptable for the purposes of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006, as long as the EEA national also has CSI cover for themselves and any family members.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 6.0ext.pdf
The document also states the following:
Family members of British citizens under regulation 9 must have CSI if the British citizen intends to be economically inactive in the UK on their return. As British citizen’s have free access to the NHS they would not be required to hold CSI.
but in the same section we can read this note:
If the following persons do not provide evidence of CSI you must refuse the application:
• a self sufficient person or any of their family members
• a student or any of their family members
• family members dependent on a child under regulation 16(2) (Chen)
• family members of British citizens where the British citizen is economically inactive
We also noted the following information from this document:

http://www.airecentre.org/data/files/re ... encies.pdf
The UK Court of Appeal has held that reliance on NHS coverage is insufficient to meet the
requirement for CSI (Ahmad v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2014] EWCA
Civ 988; see also FK (Kenya) v Secretary of State for the Home Department [2010] EWCA
So based on the above background information, here are my questions:

1) Do I meet the requirements to be viewed as a “qualified person” on the merits of self-sufficiency from the year of 2017 to 2019 (now) despite not having comprehensive sickness insurance (CSI) cover on the grounds of being a British National and therefore having free access to the NHS?

2) Would the Home Office consider accepting our application for Permanent Residence (PR) despite of my wife not having CSI cover, but instead paying income tax and National Insurance contributions from her wage in the past 19 years?


3) If we decide to apply for PR and our application is refused on the grounds of not having CSI cover would I be able to argue my case in court in front of a judge based on having paid NI from 2005 to 2017 and my wife having paid NI contributions since she was economically active in the UK since the year 2000?

4) Would it be possible to obtain CSI cover for her before we submit our application for PR to meet the requirements although not being able to provide evidence of having CIS cover for the years of 2017 to 2019?

5) Given that I was economically active and had worked from 2007 to 2012 therefore, was considered as a “qualified person”. Would it be possible to apply for PR for my wife based on that period?

6) Can ILR application submitted as a spouse of a British Citizen if the previous five year stay in the UK was on a visa of an EEA family member?


7) Can two application be submitted at the same time to the home office one applying for permanent residency and a second application applying for indefinite leave to remain? Would the two have a negative effect each other?

8.) In the light of the above circumstances, is it considered viable applying for PR and if not what other solutions would be available to us to carry on our life in the UK?


I would like to thank in advance for everybody who takes their time to answer my post and questions, and I would like you to know that your help and advice is greatly appreciated.

I tried to cover every information I felt was relevant to the case, if however further information is needed in order to be able to answer, please do not hesitate to ask.

Have a great day everyone!

NikiGio
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Re: Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by NikiGio » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:08 pm

The cheapest solutions are:

1) EEA immigration law route: your wife applies for EEA (PR) for the period Nov 2010 - Nov 2015, based on your P60s/payslips for that period. Fee is £65, but there will be other costs such as certified translation of marriage certificate, if not in English;

2) New UK immigration law route for EEA citizens and their family members: your wife applies for Settled Status based on her residence in the UK in the last 5 years. Fee is currently £65 but will be refunded. Not sure if this option requires translation of marriage certificate. See http://www.ukcen.co.uk/resources/settlement/#eligible for info.

Option 1 requires more paperwork than Option 2.
I am not an immigration lawyer. My comments are opinions, not legal advice.

Lucas Schwartz
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Re: Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:42 pm

Niki,

Thank you for your reply.

You have suggested two routes to obtain permanent residency for my wife. I have considered option two but the current system is in it's Beta phases and will not be fully implemented until 30.03.2019 (the date the UK leaves the EU). My wife's residency document however will expire on the 17.03.2019 so she would have overstayed her allowed stay in the UK.
During the "Beta" or testing phases of the system non-EU family members are not allowed to apply except if they fall into the "exceptional circumstances" category.

Non-EU citizen family members
A non-EU citizen will be able to apply where they have previously been issued
with a biometric residence card issued under the EEA Regulations, on the
basis of an application made on or after 6 April 2015, as a family member or
former family member of an EU citizen.

They can only apply during private beta 2 where they meet the criteria
outlined in the section of this guidance on who can apply.
source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... .0-ext.pdf

As for option 1 would you be able to briefly explain that how is it possible to submit an application for an earlier period please? Yes I have p60's and payslips to cover 2010 to 2015 and prove that I was a "qualified person" under EU law but according to the information detailed in these guidance the following conditions has to apply:
Assessing whether the British citizen is a qualified person in the UK

To be able to sponsor a family member’s right to reside in the UK, the British citizen must be able to satisfy the conditions for being a qualified person, unless they are in their first 3 months of residence.
A British citizen does not need to be a qualified person for the first 3 months after returning to the UK. However, to sponsor a family member’s UK residence after the initial 3 month period, the British citizen needs to be the equivalent of a qualified person in the UK.
source: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... 3.0EXT.pdf

Please correct me if I miss-interpreting what I am reading. Have great day and thanks again for your reply.

NikiGio
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Re: Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by NikiGio » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:39 pm

Lucas Schwartz wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:42 pm
I have considered option two but the current system is in it's Beta phases and will not be fully implemented until 30.03.2019 (the date the UK leaves the EU). My wife's residency document however will expire on the 17.03.2019 so she would have overstayed her allowed stay in the UK.
That's right - your wife *can* apply in the current beta phase if she has the following:
- Android 6.0+
- Passport with chip
- Biometric residence permit (BRP).
If you have the above and you go ahead, rememver that it's still a test phase so you could come across a lot of technical glitches and have to call the helpline multiple times. Or it could go smoothly.
Lucas Schwartz wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:42 pm
As for option 1 would you be able to briefly explain that how is it possible to submit an application for an earlier period please? Yes I have p60's and payslips to cover 2010 to 2015
The 5-year qualifying period for your wife can be anytime, but it has to start after the date you got married and you have to have been exercising treaty rights during those 5 years (although some gaps are allowed).
The time after you left work and were self-sufficient is not valid because you didn't have CSI.
Strongly suggest you include a covering letter where you summarise your family situation and explain very clearly and in bold what qualifying period you are applying for. There is a template for the covering letter in one of the other posts in the forum, which I published in the past.

In my case for example - I arrived in Jan 2010, started working in Feb 2010 and submitted an application for EEA (PR) in August 2018, specifying that the qualifying period I was applying and submitting evidence for was in the past, 2010-2015. I was succesfully granted PR in September 2018, with the date I was deemed to have acquired PR being Jan 2015 (so qualifying period of Jan 2010 - Jan 2015).

To be honest, you could actually do both Option 1) and Option 2), provided your wife has BRP etc. relative to Option 2). Initially you would have to pay £65 for each application, but the £65 relative to Settled Status will eventually be refunded.
I am not an immigration lawyer. My comments are opinions, not legal advice.

Lucas Schwartz
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:51 am
United Kingdom

Re: Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:31 pm

Good afternoon Niki,

Thank you for your reply. We going to try the second route as we do not have the bio-metric residence permit only the old styled-vignette type permit.

Thank you for taking your time to read and answer my question.

Have a great day and weekend!

Kind regards,

Lucas

NikiGio
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Re: Confused about family member's CSI cover requirements. Afraid it might be effecting PR for wife.

Post by NikiGio » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:47 pm

Pleasure - also have a look at the UKCEN site on FB. They have put together a FAQ file with a lot of practical tips on how to put the PR application together. I can't post the link on here as it seems to be against T&Cs.
Also remember that if your wife is refused PR for whatever reason, she can apply again and can also apply for Settled Status from March. But if you're diligent in putting the application together abd your evidence is good, the chances of being approved are good.
Good luck.
I am not an immigration lawyer. My comments are opinions, not legal advice.

Lucas Schwartz
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Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:51 am
United Kingdom

Section 9.1 EEA (PR) application form.

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:48 pm

PR application form:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... -07-18.pdf

Section 9.1 – Will the home office consider the Permanent Residence card relevant despite of being naturalised as a British Citizen? Should other added evidence be submitted confirming years during which I was in full time employment?

Thank you in advance for all your answers,

Kind regards,

Lucas

Lucas Schwartz
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If the sponsor receiving child benefit will it negatively impact the PR application of the non – EEA wife who is relying

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:18 pm

If dual national EEA-British sponsor receiving child benefit will it negatively impact the PR application of the non – EEA wife who is relying on the sponsor in the PR application?

Thanks,

Lucas

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alterhase58
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Re: If the sponsor receiving child benefit will it negatively impact the PR application of the non – EEA wife who is rel

Post by alterhase58 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:59 pm

Child Benefit is universal so should not have any impact on any application.
I was under the impression that a British citizien cannot sponsor non-EEA under EU regulations.
This is just my opinion as a member of this forum and does not constitute immigration advice.
Please do not send me private messages asking for advice.

Lucas Schwartz
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Re: If the sponsor receiving child benefit will it negatively impact the PR application of the non – EEA wife who is rel

Post by Lucas Schwartz » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:26 am

Hello,

Thanks for your reply. We have been advised that the home office have changed their stance on dual citizens applying for PR for their family members based on the Lounes (C165/16) case.

See the link for the article below:

third party solicitor weblink removed by moderator

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CR001
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Re: Section 9.1 EEA (PR) application form.

Post by CR001 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:37 am

Char (CR001 not Casa)
In life you cannot press the Backspace button!!
Please DO NOT send me a PM for immigration advice. I reserve the right to ignore the PM and not respond.

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