New proposals to regulate working hours of foreign students

[archigabe]

Celtic Dragon faces a bleak future
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fea ... 81314.html

New Government proposals to regulate the working hours of Ireland's foreign student population could lead to greater exploitation rather than eradicate it, especially for the many young Chinese here

AS HE TELLS IT, Junyu Wang was having a meal in a Chinese restaurant on Parnell Street in Dublin not too long ago when gardaí from the immigration bureau arrived and ordered staff and diners to stay put. "They said, 'everybody sit down, don't move, give us your ID'," he recalls. "If you're illegal, they arrest you." It's a conversation about Government plans for new student work permits that leads him to the story of the restaurant raid, but in Wang's eyes the two are filaments of the same thread. Slowly but unmistakably, he is saying, the talk to is tightening on Ireland's Chinese students.

Under draft Government proposals sent to the social partners last month, all non-European Economic Area (EEA) students with a part-time job offer will soon be required to apply for a work permit, providing details of the position, the employer's identity, the salary and hours. It will be the biggest change in the student visa regime since 2000, when the Government decided to allow all non-EEA students to work part-time to help finance their studies. That scheme allows students to work 20 hours a week during the college year and 40 hours out of term.

[Christophe]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fea ... 81314.html

... when gardaí from the immigration bureau arrived and ordered staff and diners to stay put. "They said, 'everybody sit down, don't move, give us your ID'," he recalls. "If you're illegal, they arrest you." ...

Is it a requirement in Ireland to carry ID at all times?

[archigabe]

Not according to the law...but then again Ireland has it's own way of doing things.

[Christophe]

Not according to the law...but then again Ireland has it's own way of doing things.

Hmm... my suspicion is that most people (staff or diners) wouldn't have any ID with them (in the situation described in the article) that would demonstrate their legal right to be in the country or to take employment... Who routinely takes his or her passport to work (or out to dinner), after all?

[mktsoi]

Not according to the law...but then again Ireland has it's own way of doing things.

Hmm... my suspicion is that most people (staff or diners) wouldn't have any ID with them (in the situation described in the article) that would demonstrate their legal right to be in the country or to take employment... Who routinely takes his or her passport to work (or out to dinner), after all?

the irish government cannot even read or write themself. they issued all the non eu national with a gnib card. look, the only way you can get a gnib card in ireland is to show yourself up in gnib and present your passport and documents before they give you a gnib card. if you take a look at the back of your gnib card. it said this is not an identity card. but they wont give you a gnib card if you dont have a passport. how funny huh?

[Christophe]

the irish government cannot even read or write themself. they issued all the non eu national with a gnib card. look, the only way you can get a gnib card in ireland is to show yourself up in gnib and present your passport and documents before they give you a gnib card. if you take a look at the back of your gnib card. it said this is not an identity card. but they wont give you a gnib card if you dont have a passport. how funny huh?

Well, that is of itself not unreasonable. But it surely would be unreasonable to expect people to carry identification on their person in a society where that is not a requirement, or even the norm.

[esharknz]

I was told by the GNIB that I had to have my GNIB card on me at all times (Cork, when I was living there). Most of the time I will as I don't tend to go to too many places without my wallet, but I mean, I get the feeling they are expecting me to carry it when I, for example, go for run! I've never actually been asked for it ever while in Ireland.

[pam pam]

all non-European Economic Area (EEA) students with a part-time job offer will soon be required to apply for a work permit, providing details of the position, the employer's identity, the salary and hours.

Its better they say non- European Economic Area (EEA) students are not allowed to work than bringing up this ridiculous proposal.

The same thing goes with spouses/dependants of work permit holders subjected to the work permit thing. Employers are not willing to employ you once they know you require a work permit. Its better they tell Foreign workers your families are not welcomed here,,,,, we only need your skill. You work for us as a slave,pay taxes, contribute to the development of the country and we don't want your familes here.

Its high time the Irish Government learn from other developed countries like UK,USA, Germany etc., because there immigration law is confusing and not realistic.

[joesoap101]

all non-European Economic Area (EEA) students with a part-time job offer will soon be required to apply for a work permit, providing details of the position, the employer's identity, the salary and hours.

Its better they say non- European Economic Area (EEA) students are not allowed to work than bringing up this ridiculous proposal.

The same thing goes with spouses/dependants of work permit holders subjected to the work permit thing. Employers are not willing to employ you once they know you require a work permit. Its better they tell Foreign workers your families are not welcomed here,,,,, we only need your skill. You work for us as a slave,pay taxes, contribute to the development of the country and we don't want your familes here.

Its high time the Irish Government learn from other developed countries like London,USA, Germany etc., because there immigration law is confusing and not realistic.

Its pathetic really. Ireland just isnt worth it. I have been discouraging people from immigrating there for about 6 years now and I am glad to say I've cost the Irish Revenue Commissioners a substantial sum of money. It seems like the Irish government think they can get away with abusing people like this, but it will bite them in the a** eventually.

I guess you can view London as a city state not quite a country yet though.

[esharknz]

From today's Irish times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 85170.html

More relates to non-EEA national students having to either confirm no children will be joining them, or that they will have to have the written approval of the DoJ or education that their child can be enrolled in school before they'll be registered. No mention is made as to what happens with people with younger children not of school age.

[archigabe]

The new policy hinged on an interpretation of an existing stipulation that foreign students are expected to be self-sufficient during their stay in Ireland and was driven by a belief that some foreign students are coming to Ireland to have their children educated, Government sources said at the time.

So foreign students are paying tens of thousands of Euros to save a few hundred Euros in school fees back home?

[ashimashi]

Yeah, and btw we don't want those children of educated, graduate-student, legally-residing parents ... we prefer our schools filled with asylum seekers children or manual workers from Eastern Europe!

(nothing against asylum seekers or Eastern Europeans at all by the way, but yet another example of government policies sacrificing a small number of highly productive, skilled, educated migrants and ignoring the big elephant in the room)

[mktsoi]

well, whatever the irish government trying to impose on the foreign student. it just like they impose to the eu national married to non eu national. they put a 6 months residency rule for people applying for eu1 before the court ruling because they think it will stop the shame marriage.

now they suggested that student wants to work has to apply for work permit. it is like the irish government mentioned few years ago, many foreign students comes here to work 50 hours a week but dont show up for school or university. they will say they trying to stop them working illegally. i think they ask the student to apply for work permit to work is ok but as long as the work permit doesnt tie the student into one job. this will be very stupid.

[esharknz]

I wonder if the student work permit will have the opposite effect to that intended (i.e. trying to crack down on students working illegally by imposing more paperwork on them, but the opposite happens because of the paperwork and conditions).

It will be interesting to see what conditions they'll put on such permits.

Regarding putting the children of non-EU students in schools - I've heard other countries just requiring that the parent pay for the cost of putting their child in the school, that would otherwise have been paid for by the government, as opposed to having a blanket policy of no children.

[asrpb]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 85170.html

[quote]Foreign students with children face exclusion

RUADHÃ

[injasuti]

I despair at the complete lack of thought in the Government's handling of yet another aspect of immigration policy.

Given that most foreign students work part-time an in casual employment, forcing them to get work permits will be highly unattractive to employers due to the stirct terms in work permit applications.

There is no doubt in my mind that the students will then work illegally and as a result face an increased liklihood of exploitation.

[ca.funke]

...complete lack of thought...

Unfortunately, given the track-record of immigration-realated decisions of this government, I do not think this is a "lack of thought".

• They want to get rid of as many foreigners as possible.
• Manouvering them into illegal positions at least allows exploiting them, without giving them any rights.
• I think the result you describe is exactly what is wanted.

[Christophe]

What is the view of the educational institutions that take in foreign students. In many countries (e.g. the UK, Australia) foreign students are very much welcomed by the colleges etc since they normally pay higher fees, and obviously an environment that makes things difficult for these students is likely to make the country less attractive. Have any of the Irish higher education institutions commented at all?

[esharknz]

Ireland will lose out in terms of international students. They are actively encouraged in other countries. I see countries, such as Australia not only allow a student to work, but will also allow dependents to work also (only 20 hours per week, but that's better than not being able to bring them!).

[joesoap101]

The Irish are shooting themselves in the foot because they are too ignorant to realise that the market for international students are extremely competitive. Having been closely linked to a University in Dublin, I can say that there is a funding crisis which is being masked by students coming in from mainly India and China paying exorbitant fees.

The fees for Irish/EU nationals are approximately €830 compared to about €13000 for non-EU students. But hopefully this revenue will also dry up now and force the issue. The quality of Irish education is already grossly over stated. In the meantime Pfizer is selling up factories in Ireland or rather closing them down because no other company in their right mind will buy it in the current economic conditions- but the Irish government is obviously not too concerned.

Like I've said countless times- go to the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand to work and study and avoid the soggy bog at the edge of Europe.

[mktsoi]

Ireland will lose out in terms of international students. They are actively encouraged in other countries. I see countries, such as Australia not only allow a student to work, but will also allow dependents to work also (only 20 hours per week, but that's better than not being able to bring them!).

Australia used to require student to apply for permit to work separately from the student visa. they cancelled it so the student can have automatic 20hrs work right once when they enter the country. may be the australian government will get less money for student to apply for the permit. but the goverenment even less paper work and that will save the government money as well!

Ireland is going the opposite way.