France for UK spouse, visas, residence, paperwork

[jeepers]

Excuse me as I’ve edited this to make it less long-winded however the subject remains the same.

Me: UK Citizen
Wife: Non-EU National requiring Schengen visa to enter Europe.
Location: We are living outside Europe

Target Country to live & work, full-time: France or Spain

Under EU rules, I understand that we may go to any EU state (ex. My own country) and live for up to three months without question.

1) Can my wife enter on a standard short-stay Schengen Visa (or long stay)?
I see only forms for short and long stay Schengen Visas on the French Consulate sites. I am confused when I read about the EEA Family Permit (may be called something else outside UK). We have already obtained and travelled on a six-month multiple entry Schengen visa, purely for tourist purposes.

2) If there is another form (please specify), then do we need to show accommodation or employment paperwork at this stage?

Before the three months is up, I understand we must apply for residency. I am under the impression that this is when we must reasonably substantiate our/my circumstances to show that we are living there and not liable to rely on the state. Accommodation will be no problem. A question about employment/funds as I freelance and my principal income may still be derived from clients outside France/Spain.

3) Is it acceptable to show savings in lieu of local monthly income and employment contract? If so on what sort of basis should calculate this? e.g. show 6000 euros as 6 months at 1000 per month.

Thank you kindly

[jeepers]

Also, does anyone know/have experience with visiting the UK from France/Spain on a non-EU passport with a French/Spanish residency permit?

And that's a passport from a non-visa waiver country.

[BiG-GuNs]

I'm interested in this too, if anyone could please shed some light?

I have British & Australian passports and my partner has Australian only, we both wish to live in France for 6-12 months perhaps even longer...

Appreciate your guidance, cheers.

[freshprince]

Hi

I guess nobody has replied to this because browsing through the threads even superficially would answer your questions adequately.To the British citizens,you do not need to fill in any paperwork to MOVE to France/Spain,you have 6 months before you have to register as a EEA national taking advantage of Directive 2004/38/EC.Your spouses being Australian are non visa nationals therefore do not have to fill in the Schengen visa forms,you will require your marriage certificate and proof of study,employment,or being financially able to sustain yourselves when you are applying for residency.

There is a chap or sticky around here with Directive 2004/38/EC as the username/title.You will get all the peripheral information you need there.

Tha,tha,thats all folks!

[jeepers]

Thanks. I think everyone who receives a response in the forums is appreciative and I certainly don't wish to waste someone's time when the answers are there to be found out. Excuse Q1/2, that's what it looks like but I guess it's hard to comprehend when one looks at the procedure for entering one's spouse into one's own country, in my case the UK - the fact one can waltz into France on a free tourist visa and then initially stay and work with no further docs is unbelievable and I guess I just needed confirmation! I suppose I'm also just trying to canvas personal, real-world experience as all is not always as it should be - I've read that in these forums - often breaches in the mentioned EU directive so examples are useful.

What I cannot find is a relevant answer to my Q3, perhaps I should have put that first and made it the subject of the topic. My question being what are the parameters for being able to sustain myself/ourselves financially, when one has enough CAPITAL to realistically do so but not, at first, the INCOME to show. If someone knows about "different" financial circumstances please reply.

And concerning my follow-up question, I know my wife cannot enter the UK on a schengen visa however can she enter the UK as a visitor with a non-EU, non visa-waiver territory passport when she has a French or Spanish resident's permit? I read about tit-for-tat refusals etc.

[freshprince]

JEEPERS!Get a load of that!!Lol,Just kidding, Lets see.

Enough Capital but not enough income?Well,there is a provision under the EU rules for those that are called "economically non active",that refers to pensioners or people with private means or income,having sufficient capital of course falls under that provision,some countries such as Netherlands have an amount benchmarked for this,not sure about France or Spain though.When applying for residency,a letter of declaration and a bank statement would be sufficient.

Entering the UK with a non EU,non visa national territory?as in shes from a country that is on the no visa required list?Yes she can!however if she is a Non EU Visa required national with a French or Spanish residence card.Theoretically she can but in practice.....Jeepers! Would I be correct in assuming that she is a Visa required national and you wish to acquire a residence card for her in France or Spain?fulfill residency requirements as a "economically non active resident with private means" and then visit or return to the UK?if yes its feasible,free and workable.

G'luck mate!

PS:You'd be using the Surrinder Singh thingie,theres a twist to that cos the UK wants you to prove you were working,the EU says nay thats incorrect,you'd have to.............(PM me if you cant figure it out.)

[jeepers]

I need a provision for "economically got some savings but give me a break while I get it together on the freelancing front". I take your points freshprince, at the same time I would still welcome some known amounts from anyone with experience in either of these territories.

BTW When I talk about going to the UK with my wife it's just short visits, not going to live. The genuine plan is to enter France or Spain to start a new life. I'd just like to know if I/we are going to have to deal with UK Visas for years to come for my wife to accompany me to England every time we wish to visit friends & family from within EU borders. We both hope to be working as soon as possible.

[John]

jeepers, I do understand that you might think .... "can it be as simple as that?" ... but yes, that is what the EU is all about, making it easy for citizens of an EU/EEA country exercising EU/EEA Treaty Rights in other EU countries.

Simply :-

• go to France, both visa-free for you and your wife
• you get a job .... that is, you start exercising EU Treaty Rights. No Work Permit needed ... you have a right to work in any EU country.
• Following it being clear that you are indeed exercising EU Treaty Rights, your wife should apply in France for a 5-year Residence Card.

Technically, under EU regulations, your wife is not required to apply for a Residence Card. She has her EU Treaty Rights on the back of you exercising her EU Treaty Rights. However as a non-EEA citizen it is a good idea to make the application, because otherwise she might have problems proving that she does indeed have the ability to work.

When she makes the application in France for her Residence Card, she should get back a letter confirming her ability to work.

[freshprince]

I stand corrected.

Your rights of residence is not predicated upon your exercising an economic activity,nor is there a statutory requirement for you to have a certain amount of money,you have 90days to do whatever and this is extended by a further 90days if you havent found your feet yet,by which point you can apply,in anycase,since you are freelancing,you simply register as a self employed person with X amount of money and sign a letter of declaration and voila!

The authorities in both countries are NOT going to say bring X amount of money,lived in France for about two months,most important thing needed was the EHIC card.On the last point the ECJ have taken UK,Malta and Luxembourg to court over the wrong transposition of the directive on free movement and judging by events in Ireland,residence cards for family members of EU citizens would be valid for travel to the UK at some point in the future,until then however she would need to get a EEA family permit AFTER she has gotten her residence card.Again you are not required to do ANYTHING before the 180 day period elapses and your wife still has 90days leeway before she is statutorily required to apply for residency.

G'luck.

PS:Johns on the money here.It is that SIMPLE!

[jeepers]

Beautiful. If it sounds too good to be true, um, be very suspicious. Thank you (and EU).

I've learned that entering your own country is more of a deal with the wife than another member state but why does UK Inc. have to make such a business out of it. They say fees cover administration costs but how much more administration is involved in processing a 6 month tourist visa (£65) and a 12+ month tourist visa (£205) - really 3x? Have costs more than doubled to process settlement: £235-->£515? Whoa. Sorry, off-topic rant, just glad from that perspective we don't want to go and live there.

[flyboy]

Jeepers to register you right as an economically non active person in France for a stay longer than 3 months, you will have to present the following at the Mairie (town hall) where you will be residing in France.
1 - EU passport
2 - medical insurance
3 - documents evidencing sufficient funds - for people 65 and over the total is 628.10 euros per month for one person ; otherwise 447.91 euros per month for 1 person without children. Amounts applicable as from the 1 January 2008.
You will be issued with a certificate of registration immediately valid for 5 years.

Your wife will have to register for a residence card as a family member of an EU citizen which will have the same validity as your registration certificate and which allow her to work. She will have to present the following documents:

1 - passport with visa (if needed) with which she entered France
2 - evidence of family ties eg. marriage certificate ( preferably translated into french and legalized / apostille if certificate not issued within the EU)
3 - evidence of you exercising a treaty right eg. your registration certificate and sufficient funds as well as medical insurance which covers her

She will be issued with a receipt of registration immediately while she wait for the residence card to be issued.