Is it still worth applying for a Permanent Residence card?

[Sandra35]

Hi,

This relates to a French national who can demonstrate 5 years continued residence from 2009 to 2014 exercising Treaty Rights.

She then left the UK from for a couple of years, but not continuously.

Would it make sense for her to apply for PR now and rely on it for a future citizenship application, only to the extend that she was lawfully in the UK exercising Treaty Rights?
Or could the HO not issue a PR card on the basis that they are no longer valid after 31/12/2020?

Would the link to the online PR application still be on the gov website if they couldn't issue them within the next few weeks?

She will apply in any event under the Settlement scheme, but will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Thank you for your thoughts on this.

[kamoe]

This relates to a French national who can demonstrate 5 years continued residence from 2009 to 2014 exercising Treaty Rights.

She then left the UK from for a couple of years, but not continuously.

In order to give you the best answer possible, please share their full timeline. What do you mean continuous period 2009-2014 then left for couple of years, non continuously? Can you show exactly when they were resident and when they were absent?

Would it make sense for her to apply for PR now and rely on it for a future citizenship application, only to the extend that she was lawfully in the UK exercising Treaty Rights?

What do they want to achieve? Is it their goal to apply for British citizenship?

Or could the HO not issue a PR card on the basis that they are no longer valid after 31/12/2020?
Would the link to the online PR application still be on the gov website if they couldn't issue them within the next few weeks?

We understand that as far as the link for the application for any document under EEA route, including PR cards, is available; then the applications will be processed. This means if the link is active by Dec 31st 2020 the card will be issued, even if this means issuing it in 2021. It is not clear what the cutoff date for this link is / deadline for applications being possible; it might be spot on December 31st, it might be shortly earlier.

She will apply in any event under the Settlement scheme, but will be granted Pre-Settled Status.

Why do you think they will be granted PR but only Pre-Settled status? This is unlikely, and it would rather be the other way around. PR requirements usually are more strict than Settled Status.

If they are eligible for PR I do not see how they would not be eligible for Settled Status, hence why the importance of sharing their full timeline above.

[Sandra35]

Thank you for your response.

The French national exercisedTreaty Rights from 2009 to 2014. So it would seem would qualify for historic PR.

She left the UK late 2014 and returned in Sept 2017. She was working in France during that period of absence but returned regularly to the UK to visit.

Since September 2017 she's been in the UK mainly as a post-grad student. She has CSI.

Her goal is ultimately to apply for citizenship. Would the PR not be useful from that point of view?

As she has only been in the UK since 2017 continuously, if she was to apply under the Settlement Scheme now, she would be granted pre-settled Status based on her residence since Sept. 2017

YOu mention that the PR cards should be processed if she applied prior to 31/12/20 but what would be the validity of that card?

[kamoe]

The French national exercisedTreaty Rights from 2009 to 2014. So it would seem would qualify for historic PR.

She left the UK late 2014 and returned in Sept 2017. She was working in France during that period of absence but returned regularly to the UK to visit.

I'm afraid she would not qualify for PR if she were to apply today, since she has ceased to exercise treaty rights in the UK for more than 2 years after leaving the UK. Coming to visit, regularly or sporadically, does not make up for it; visits do not count towards the exercise of treaty rights, so it is incorrect to say her 2 years of absence are not continuous. They are.

See this freedom of information request where the 2-year absence and its impact is clarified.
And the caseworker guidance (point 13.7) cited in that answer.

In both documents it is specified that an absence of over 2 years without exercising treaty rights constitutes a reason for non eligibility.

If she had applied between 2014 and 2016 then she would have been given a PR certificate, but she would have lost it as soon as she completed 2 years out of the UK without exercising treaty rights (again, coming to visit for a weekend would not make this period not continuous).

Since September 2017 she's been in the UK mainly as a post-grad student. She has CSI.

Then yes, she is eligible for Pre-Settled status, although for that CSI is not necessary.

Her goal is ultimately to apply for citizenship. Would the PR not be useful from that point of view?

It would be useful, but again, she would not get it, since she lost her right to PR the moment she completed 2 years out of the UK, not exercising treaty rights.

As she has only been in the UK since 2017 continuously, if she was to apply under the Settlement Scheme now, she would be granted pre-settled Status based on her residence since Sept. 2017

Yes, correct.

YOu mention that the PR cards should be processed if she applied prior to 31/12/20 but what would be the validity of that card?

It is not clear if having a PR card would allow someone to apply for citizenship in 2021, but again, this is not relevant to her since she is no longer eligible for PR anyway.

[Sandra35]

Many thanks Kamoe. This is very helpful

[kamoe]

Since September 2017 she's been in the UK mainly as a post-grad student. She has CSI.

Then yes, she is eligible for Pre-Settled status, although for that CSI is not necessary.

Actually, what am I saying.

She is likely eligible already for Settled Status. Even though she has broken the required continuous residence period for PR, she has NOT broken her allowed absence period for the Settlement Scheme.

As I said above, the Settlement Scheme is more relaxed than the EEA route. To break the continuous period of residence for the EEA route it requires 2 years away of the UK, to do the same for Settled Status it requires 5 years. In this case the applicant was away for 3 years, breaking the period for PR, but not for Settled Status.

Sorry, for some reason I first responded assuming she just had arrived back, forgetting she did in 2017, not in 2020 (which would have been 6 years of absence).

So if she was to apply today, she would likely get Settled Status, but would still need to wait 12 months from the moment her status is issued, in order to be eligible to apply to British Citizenship.

Hope that is clear.

[NatCam]

Hi,
I think you are wrong @Kamoe. Requirement for settled status is 5 years continious residence at the time of application.

[kamoe]

Hi,
I think you are wrong @Kamoe. Requirement for settled status is 5 years continious residence at the time of application.

The requirement is the completion of 5 continuous years at the date of application (not necessarily completed immediately or exactly at the time of application), AND no supervening event, which includes 5 years of absence since the completion of the 5 years:

As per the caseworker guidance, page 40:

Continuous qualifying period of 5 years

An EEA citizen will be eligible for ILE or ILR under the scheme, as a relevant EEA citizen under condition 3 in rule EU11, where, at the date of application, they have completed a continuous qualifying period of residence in the UK and Islands of 5 years – as a relevant EEA citizen, a family member of a relevant EEA citizen, a family member who has retained the right of residence by virtue of a relationship with a relevant EEA citizen, a person with a derivative right to reside, a person with a Zambrano right to reside, or a person who had a derivative or Zambrano right to reside, or in any combination of those categories.

Where an applicant relies on more than one of those categories in order to complete their continuous qualifying period of 5 years, there can be no gap between the periods of qualification under each category relied upon. This does not affect the absences from the UK and Islands which are permitted during a continuous qualifying period.

And where no supervening event has occurred, which means both that since completing that 5 year period:
• they have not been absent from the UK and Islands for a period of more than 5 consecutive years

(...)

So, 5 years of residence and 3 years of absence still qualifies.

[Sandra35]

Thank you both for your comments.

I have a different scenario for another French national and would appreciate your thoughts on this.

He's been in the UK since 2013 exercising Treaty Rights as a worker. He has a wife and children. Wife wasn't working & children have been at school, none of them have CSI. They've had Settled Status for over a year but can't apply to naturalise as they have had very long absences this past year.

I was thinking that if he could apply for PR (exercising TR as a worker) & include his wife & children as his dependants, it would help in the following ways;
The wife & children don't need to provide CSI for the PR application.
When it comes to applying for naturalisation, it will have already been assessed that they were all exercising TR & in the UK lawfully.

The question still remains whether the HO will issue PR cards at this stage and whether these can be relied on?

[kamoe]

they have had very long absences this past year.

Well, same thing goes. Exact and full timelines are needed for each of them.

[Sandra35]

Hello Kamoe,

They have all been in the UK continuously since July 2013. Absences throughout have been no more than 6 months in any 12 months, apart from the last 12 months, where they have been away for up to 198 days.
This applies to all family members.

[kamoe]

They have all been in the UK continuously since July 2013. Absences throughout have been no more than 6 months in any 12 months, apart from the last 12 months, where they have been away for up to 198 days.
This applies to all family members.

OK in this case, then yes, it seems all of them have already acquired PR automatically in July 2018, and if no major absences occurred in July 2018-July 2019, then they would be eligible to apply for British nationality immediately after their confirmation of PR.

Now, next steps after PR, the other absence-related thing to take into account given their history is that they need to prove they were all physically in the UK exactly 5 years before the day the HO receives their application for British Citizenship, so they need to time this well. So, if the application for BC is received, say on March 3rd 2021, they need to prove they were all in the UK on March 2nd 2016.

[Sandra35]

Thank you Kamoe, I agree that the family will have acquired PR. The issue is that it is unclear whether the HO will issue a PR card if we apply now as it will technically not be valid after 31/12/2020. On the other hand the online application is still on the gov website, so it's very confusing.

[kamoe]

The issue is that it is unclear whether the HO will issue a PR card if we apply now as it will technically not be valid after 31/12/2020.

Well, as per other member's reports, throughout 2020, the HO has been issuing EEA RCs with printed expiration dates of 2021.

From a purely personal point of view -and if anyone can offer more solid reference I welcome that- I believe the HO is stuck at having to issue these cards, since it has been long agreed and communicated that the rights of EU citizens and their families remains unchanged until the end of the transition period. I understand EEA documents are processes are part of those rights.

Following the same logic, I think that they cannot really stop applications / take the link down before 11 PM of December 31st, and that is why no other deadline has ever been communicated. And I am just assuming that as long as anyone applies when the link is still valid, they have to issue the document.

I might be wrong, but that's all I've got, sorry.

[Sandra35]

Thank you. I appreciate your feedback