10 Year Employment History - Unable to add details for more than 5 jobs

[engineer86]

Hi everyone,
I've hit a snag whilst completing the application form.

As a postgraduate student back in 2011, I was employed in a part-time role that entailed 10 hours of work every week. I worked in that job for less than 2 months; I started in June, 2011 and quit that job before the end of July, if I remember correctly. I do not remember the exact start and end dates, and did not bother to retain payslips and P45 for that job as I never though it was important. I logged a Subject Access Request(SAR) with the HMRC last month.

Today, I received a letter from the HMRC showing the leaving date for that job as 31-01-2012, which can't be right. I'm guessing that company kept me on the pay roll even though I had left in July, 2011. The letter from HMRC states the following:

"Dear Mr XYZ
..................

We are unable to provide exact dates of employment as our records are held in closed tax years .

We can only provide dates of leaving if the employer has included this on the end of the year P14.

According to the National Insurance (NI) records, the following information is shown.

Tax Year Employer Earnings £ Tax £ NI £ Leaving Date
2011/12 XYZ Ltd 900 186 20 31/01/2012
"


My question is, when completing the employment history section in the application form, should I stick to the leaving date provided by that employer to the HMRC or should I provide the month and year that I stopped working for that business? On the form, we are only supposed to enter the month and year.

I would really appreciate if someone here could help me with this dilemma.

Thank you very much in advance.

[seagul]

Aside proceeding towards the citizenship application, remedying that error/mistake should be the top priority which could be a typing error too, since you are assuredly claiming of had resigned from that job in July 2011. Another cross check you can run by yourself by recalling/checking as whether was the tax code changed to "BR" between July 2011 - January 2012. Despite all above, you can scan and extract your all old employment records from the following link:

https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds

[engineer86]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.

I’m unable to access that link. Could you please provide the complete link?

What could be the repercussions if I do not get it corrected and in my application, provide the leaving date that is in HMRC’s record? I didn’t get paid anyway and quite obviously didn’t do any work for them between August 2011 until the end of January, 2012.

Thanks

[engineer86]

Aside proceeding towards the citizenship application, remedying that error/mistake should be the top priority which could be a typing error too, since you are assuredly claiming of had resigned from that job in July 2011. Another cross check you can run by yourself by recalling/checking as whether was the tax code changed to "BR" between July 2011 - January 2012. Despite all above, you can scan and extract your all old employment records from the following link:

https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds

Hi,
As I mentioned I’ve lost payslips for that job I did between June and July of 2011. I started my first proper full time job in October, 2011 after completing my MSc. I just looked at my payslips for that job and my tax code was NI from October 2011 and for most of 2012.

Is there a need to request a correction? That was the only odd job I ever did and that too for about 10 hours a week and only for less than 2 months. I never violated any conditions of my student visa at the time, in relation to work hours.

[alterhase58]

I very much doubt that an error in your HMRC record nearly 10 years ago will have impact on anything.
Just state what you know, approximate if necessary. You are not required to prove your salary, tax or NI - UKVI likely have access to that anyway, if it's on the HMRC database.

[engineer86]

I very much doubt that an error in your HMRC record nearly 10 years ago will have impact on anything.
Just state what you know, approximate if necessary. You are not required to prove your salary, tax or NI - UKVI likely have access to that anyway, if it's on the HMRC database.

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.

So shall I just provide start and end dates as June, 2011 and July 2011? That is the period that I actually worked for that company. I don’t even have a P45 from that company. They actually may have sent one but I moved to a new address and never received it.

In the highly unlikely scenario that UKVI refuse my application, I can take them to court as I provided them with the correct information. My bank statements for that period prove that I was not paid a penny after I left in July, 2011. The responsibility for providing the HMRC with incorrect information lies with that company and not me.

I will also call HMRC tomorrow and ask them to correct the leaving date and reissue a P45. I’m sure they have a legal obligation to do so.

[CULLINAN]

You probably can call that company and check which date they submitted as your leave date to HMRC??

I recently called a company where I was employed in 2013 and asked about similar details as I did not have the P45 record anymore.

[alterhase58]

We should avoid overthinking this.
I have yet to see a report of an applicant being refused due to incorrect, estimated or even missing employment data. Clearly there is a requirement to supply information as requested, to the best of knowledge, however most people these days have had multiple jobs over the past ten years, and not everyone keeps records diligently, it's just a fact of life. Provide your estimated dates, add a concise letter/note explaining and it should be ok.

[engineer86]

You probably can call that company and check which date they submitted as your leave date to HMRC??

I recently called a company where I was employed in 2013 and asked about similar details as I did not have the P45 record anymore.

Hi,
Thanks for your response.

The issue is the incorrect leaving date in HMRC's records. That company gave them the wrong leaving date. I stopped working for them towards the end of July in 2011 but they have put the leaving date as 31-01-2012. I will give that company a call tomorrow and see how far I get. It is their responsibility to provide the HMRC with the correct information. If they refuse to get this error corrected, I will attach a copy of the email correspondence with the Naturalisation Application form. I'm sure HMRC know the date for the last salary paid by that company.

On a side note, it's a disgrace that highly skilled non-EU citizens have to go through all these hoops and still face the possibility of our naturalisation applications getting rejected over issues that are not even a consequence of our own actions. This one is a classic example where I'm having to run from pillar to post just to get a date correct in HMRC's records. One of my EU friends who has lived in the country for 5 years recently had his application approved, even though he couldn't provide full evidence of residence for the last 5 years. They clearly apply double standards!

[CULLINAN]

We should avoid overthinking this.
I have yet to see a report of an applicant being refused due to incorrect, estimated or even missing employment data. Clearly there is a requirement to supply information as requested, to the best of knowledge, however most people these days have had multiple jobs over the past ten years, and not everyone keeps records diligently, it's just a fact of life. Provide your estimated dates, add a concise letter/note explaining and it should be ok.

What if HMRC has incorrect information for someone’s leaving date and that person was not allowed to work on that leave then?
Dont you think that could be a problem for the applicant as HO may assume the applicant worked illegally?
Example:
Lets say someone was on a PSW visa and left work on 25th Dec 2013. But HMRC has the record he left work on 25th Feb 2014 in error and an applicant was on Tier 1 Ent visa then and not allowed to work then?

[alterhase58]

Thanks @CULLINAN for clarifying - whilst aware of the no-working conditions on some visas didn't consider ths scenario that different dates may cause even more issues..

[engineer86]

Thanks @CULLINAN for clarifying - whilst aware of the no-working conditions on some visas didn't consider ths scenario that different dates may cause even more issues..

Thankfully, I'm not faced with this scenario, as I graduated in October, 2011. Interestingly, my student visa was set to expire on 31-01-2012. That's probably the reason the company in question provided that date to the HMRC, as my leaving date. But still it's wrong and they have a legal responsibility to get it corrected.

@alterhase58 is right though. I'm probably thinking too much. I'll notify HMRC and that company of this error and then complete and submit my naturalisation application.

[CULLINAN]

Correct, if the error in your case is in no breach of your visa work conditions, I would not even bother wasting my time correcting the error.

[engineer86]

Correct, if the error in your case is in no breach of your visa work conditions, I would not even bother wasting my time correcting the error.

No, I never breached my visa conditions. I worked part-time, about 6 hours a week as a faculty admin assistant at my university during term time (September 2010 - May 2011). During summer I worked in this casual job for less than 10 hours a week for this catering company from June - July 2011, whilst working on my dissertation which I submitted in September. I started my first full time proper job in October 2011 and later applied for a PSW visa.

They have no reason to reject my naturalisation application. I'm being entirely truthful even if HMRC have an error in their records.

[CULLINAN]

Thats what I said, if the date in error covers your work visa conditions, then no issues even if its not corrected.

[seagul]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.

I’m unable to access that link. Could you please provide the complete link?

By surmising, and as others have avowed that such minor discrepancy might not affect the application but still by keeping your tax issue be extricated out of it, I would only recommend you to use the following link to point out that error/mistake (That feature you will find there) to HMRC. All you need to do is to create your account, then afterwards with your credentials you will be able to login in to this portal whilst receiving the authorisation code from time to time on to your registered mobile number. Aside above, regarding liaising with the former employer for fetching the older data, then dismally they won’t have such information because usually the data is shredded away after 6 years.
The link might have hiccups perhaps due to the website undergoing the maintenance or crippling due to the retrieval of heavy data by large public.

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account ... e-identity

[engineer86]

Hi,
Thank you for your reply.

I’m unable to access that link. Could you please provide the complete link?

By surmising, and as others have avowed that such minor discrepancy might not affect the application but still by keeping your tax issue be extricated out of it, I would only recommend you to use the following link to point out that error/mistake (That feature you will find there) to HMRC. All you need to do is to create your account, then afterwards with your credentials you will be able to login in to this portal whilst receiving the authorisation code from time to time on to your registered mobile number. Aside above, regarding liaising with the former employer for fetching the older data, then dismally they won’t have such information because usually the data is shredded away after 6 years.
The link might have hiccups perhaps due to the website undergoing the maintenance or crippling due to the retrieval of heavy data by large public.

https://www.gov.uk/personal-tax-account ... e-identity

Hi,
Thanks for your suggestion.

I created an account earlier. However, in the tax history section, I'm only able to go as far back as 5th April, 2015. Also, there is no option to send them a message. I suppose I will have to give them a call and ask for an email address where I can send my enquiry in writing, just for the sake of record. I will then reference this correspondence in my naturalisation application.

[engineer86]

Hi all,
I sent HMRC a letter last month, asking them to correct the leaving date in their records. I included my bank statement for the FY 2011/12 showing wage payments for the employment in question. Last week, I received those original bank statements from HMRC with a note saying that they were looking into my request. I phoned their PT Operations team and I was told that my request for correction has been passed on to their archives team and that it can take up to 8 weeks to process.

My question is, should I wait for the HMRC to correct the leaving date or should I apply for naturalisation regardless? As far as I'm concerned, I've done my bit to notify the HMRC of an error in their records.

Thanks.

[alterhase58]

Discrepancies in employment dates (leaving/Joining/P45) are generally not an issue, and as @cullinan said:

Re: Employment History - Response from HMRC vis-à-vis SAR
by CULLINAN » 20 Sep 2020 18:27

Thats what I said, if the date in error covers your work visa conditions, then no issues even if its not corrected.

You should be ok to proceed with your application.

[engineer86]

Good Evening,
I am completing the online application form for naturalisation. For some reason, the system won't allow me to enter details for more than 5 previous employments. Has anyone else experienced the same issue?

It seems unlikely that this is a bug in their online system, considering that they require employment history for the last 10 years.

Please could someone offer any guidance here?

Thanks

[engineer86]

Please ignore. I've found the link to add details for additional jobs!

[shb101]

Please ignore. I've found the link to add details for additional jobs!

In regards to your wrong employment dates in hmrc record, I blv it will not impact on your application no matter you were on their payroll for a year or so but your earning was 0 that's what matters i blv. Cullinan correct me if i m wrong.

[engineer86]

Discrepancies in employment dates (leaving/Joining/P45) are generally not an issue, and as @cullinan said:

Re: Employment History - Response from HMRC vis-à-vis SAR
by CULLINAN » 20 Sep 2020 18:27

Thats what I said, if the date in error covers your work visa conditions, then no issues even if its not corrected.

You should be ok to proceed with your application.

Hi,
I submitted my naturalisation application a couple of days ago. In the notes, section I mentioned that the leaving date for one of my former employments is incorrect in HMRC records. Today I received a letter from the HMRC saying that they are unable to correct the date in their records. This is despite that I had sent them sufficient evidence i.e. my bank statements showing the wage payment dates.

What legal recourse do I have?

It's noteworthy that this was a part-time job (approx 10 hours per week) that I had undertaken whilst completing my M.Sc dissertation back in 2011. I started my first professional job immediately after graduating, in October 2011 and since then have worked in very well paid professional positions in both the PSW and Tier 2 work visa categories. I am a law-abiding man with an impeccable personal/professional record and have never been in breach of any laws. I only found out about the incorrect leaving date for this odd, temporary job though the SAR request I submitted to the HMRC. In fact, I never even received a P45 from this employer. The onus is on the employer to provide the HMRC with the correct information. Also the HMRC have a responsibility to ensure correctness of their records.

Shall I take legal action against the HMRC and the employer in question?

I have spent more than 1/3 of my life in the UK, I'm highly educated, speak far better English than the native citizens - I scored 8.5/9 on my IELTS test. Over the years, I've paid far more tax than the average British citizen. And over the last 11 years or so, I have spent at least £12K just on my work visa applications. I find it disappointing that the HMRC can't even be bothered to correct their records even though I have furnished sufficient evidence.

[alterhase58]

Shall I take legal action against the HMRC and the employer in question?

You need to consult a lawyer as to the legal basis for action.
However, you'd probably need raise a formal complaint first: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-hmrc
If no satisfactory outcome you can take it to the Adjudicator's Office: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... r-s-office

[engineer86]

Shall I take legal action against the HMRC and the employer in question?

You need to consult a lawyer as to the legal basis for action.
However, you'd probably need raise a formal complaint first: https://www.gov.uk/complain-about-hmrc
If no satisfactory outcome you can take it to the Adjudicator's Office: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... r-s-office

Thanks.